Baiting Bill HB1618/SB1942

[BigAl]

The only reason I personally would support the bill would be to "even" the playing field between my and my neighbors, both where I live and also where I hunt, as they both seem to not care the current law does not allow hunting over bait/corn.

 

[DoubleRidge]

Thank you for this, maybe some more reading.

And I might add that Dr Smith is primarily a large animal vet thats main focus is on horses...so I'm sure that shaped his opinions on feed....and no doubt, horses, cows, deer, turkeys and song birds are all different animals with different digestive systems with different nutritional needs...also the horse he was treating for us was having some digestive issues...I would imagine this also factored into his recommendations.

 

[Hawk103161]

Spread out pieces of corn as a result of normal agricultural practice over a large field is quite different from 200# of it left in a pile, and refreshed weekly. But I know you know this.

Is this kinda like the pay Dove fields overseeding to the hilt and charging $40 a head to shoot multiple boxes of shells and killing 2-3 birds. Verses me spilling a little grain on the ground and shooting them from the shed.... 1 is legal the other is not simply because 1 is a Ag field the other is a pasture. Baiting is baiting. Those Dove would not be there in those numbers unless it was Baited up. I've never seen a lush Turnip field with turnips the size of cantalope growing wild. Yet as a practice this is "Legal" for the deer. Here is a baiting tip. Find the first oak to drop acorns and your hunting a honey hole..... but wait Ethically that would be wrong. Since you know they are being drawn to that 1 tree. To be fair you need to wait till all the acorn are falling.....All these holier than thou attitudes are just unethical.

 

[DoubleRidge]

I've never seen a lush Turnip field with turnips the size of cantalope growing wild. Yet as a practice this is "Legal" for the deer. Here is a baiting tip. Find the first oak to drop acorns and your hunting a honey hole..... but wait Ethically that would be wrong. Since you know they are being drawn to that 1 tree. To be fair you need to wait till all the acorn are falling.....All these holier than thou attitudes are just unethical.

One difference in your turnip example is deer will be there eating the tops of the turnips off and in some cases pawing the turnip up to eat them late in the winter, well after the season is closed...still benifiting....where bubbas corn bait site will be empty...season is over....hes got his buck in the freezer so who cares.
Also the turnips will mine nutrients to the surface and when left in the ground will rot and improve soil quality.

And some years finding the first oak tree to drop takes boots on the ground and work...but it can be a gold mine and a natural, healthy, food source for deer.

 

[Pilchard]

I am not sure this contributes to the discussion in any way but thought I'd share my experience on the unintended consequences of feeding wildlife.

When we bought our place in 2019 my son quickly discovered the creek chubs in our creek. We got him a fish trap and he would load up on them to go fishing.

At the end of summer, I noticed that the population was way down from us removing so many from the creek. To help make sure my son always had bait, I started feeding the fish daily in my creek and we quickly had more fish than ever before. We also started throwing our table scraps in the creek and watched as the crawfish, water snakes and snapping turtles all started hanging around for easy meals.

About a year into feeding the fish something really cool happened. We had a Great Blue Heron that started to catch on to our daily routine and he would come stand in the creek and wait for us to feed the fish. As the fish got into a frenzy over their meal, the heron would pick them off for an easy meal.

All along we had plenty of fish and it was cool to have the heron get used to us and wait for us to come outside each evening.

Fast forward to few weeks ago when we had really frigid temps. I came out to feed the fish after taking about a week off due to the cold temps and the heron was dead in the spot he would visit each day waiting for us to chum the fish for an easy meal.

 

[DoubleRidge]

I am not sure this contributes to the discussion in any way but thought I'd share my experience on the unintended consequences of feeding wildlife.

When we bought our place in 2019 my son quickly discovered the creek chubs in our creek. We got him a fish trap and he would load up on them to go fishing.

At the end of summer, I noticed that the population was way down from us removing so many from the creek. To help make sure my son always had bait, I started feeding the fish daily in my creek and we quickly had more fish than ever before. We also started throwing our table scraps in the creek and watched as the crawfish, water snakes and snapping turtles all started hanging around for easy meals.

About a year into feeding the fish something really cool happened. We had a Great Blue Heron that started to catch on to our daily routine and he would come stand in the creek and wait for us to feed the fish. As the fish got into a frenzy over their meal, the heron would pick them off for an easy meal.

All along we had plenty of fish and it was cool to have the heron get used to us and wait for us to come outside each evening.

Fast forward to few weeks ago when we had really frigid temps. I came out to feed the fish after taking about a week off due to the cold temps and the heron was dead in the spot he would visit each day waiting for us to chum the fish for an easy meal.

View attachment 216325

"unintended consequences of feeding wildlife"
Well said...and there are many.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[Snake]

I am not sure this contributes to the discussion in any way but thought I'd share my experience on the unintended consequences of feeding wildlife.

When we bought our place in 2019 my son quickly discovered the creek chubs in our creek. We got him a fish trap and he would load up on them to go fishing.

At the end of summer, I noticed that the population was way down from us removing so many from the creek. To help make sure my son always had bait, I started feeding the fish daily in my creek and we quickly had more fish than ever before. We also started throwing our table scraps in the creek and watched as the crawfish, water snakes and snapping turtles all started hanging around for easy meals.

About a year into feeding the fish something really cool happened. We had a Great Blue Heron that started to catch on to our daily routine and he would come stand in the creek and wait for us to feed the fish. As the fish got into a frenzy over their meal, the heron would pick them off for an easy meal.

All along we had plenty of fish and it was cool to have the heron get used to us and wait for us to come outside each evening.

Fast forward to few weeks ago when we had really frigid temps. I came out to feed the fish after taking about a week off due to the cold temps and the heron was dead in the spot he would visit each day waiting for us to chum the fish for an easy meal.

View attachment 216325

Same would happen to those that feed them and they are protected from the predators and the environment. I'm talking about those home feeders not someone who has a bait station in the hunting environment because like you all have said deer don't frequent the bait station like you think and eat other food sources and browse. Those coming to homes to feed depend primarily on that food and if some reason it quits they'll starve . Just like the government giving some people food stamps and assistance but if for some reason they stop these people that have depended upon the government will starve because they don't know how to provide for themselves . Some places it's against the law to feed the wildlife specifically for this reason .

 

[MickThompson]

I'm confused by saying TWRA shouldn't be concerned with "leveling the playing field" but they should be concerned with "equal opportunity". Aren't those the same thing?

Equal opportunity- everyone hunts under the same season framework and bag limits.

Leveling the playing field- making sure everyone has the same hunting outcome

 

[MickThompson]

Just curious ...Which are you "Oppressed or Privileged"? Ahhhh I read on You seem to think your Oppressed. Since your Neighbors land is More/Better....Dang the bad luck. Need to find some better property. That is all. Putting down Bait is better Management. According to most opinions on here it seems that 2 50lb bags of corn should get you tagged out. That's $20. Verses $3,000 on food plots... P.S. I don't give a hoot what you pour out on your land.

I'm not a democrat so... neither

 

[TheLBLman]

Same would happen to those that feed them and they are protected from the predators and the environment. . . . . . . .Those coming to homes to feed depend primarily on that food and if some reason it quits they'll starve .
Just like the government giving some people food stamps and assistance but if for some reason they stop these people that have depended upon the government will starve because they don't know how to provide for themselves . Some places it's against the law to feed the wildlife specifically for this reason .

Snake, I think we're on the same page with this.

So, why would you want to promote more of this "dependency", instead of less?

Just saying, "legalizing" a bad idea often creates even more problems, more dependency.

The issues are never as cut & dry as we would wish, but giving someone, or some animal,
"something for nothing", often back-fires to the person or animal being momentarily helped?

A wild animal "earns" its living by learning how to feed itself and avoid danger.
A human does similarly?

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

Equal opportunity- everyone hunts under the same season framework and bag limits.

Leveling the playing field- making sure everyone has the same hunting outcome

It is impossible to have the same outcome when people want different results.

 

[peytoncreekhunter]

Equal opportunity- everyone hunts under the same season framework and bag limits.

Leveling the playing field- making sure everyone has the same hunting outcome

I get the same season framework I guess you mean dates and bag limits.

But I'm not sure what you mean by the same hunting outcome.

 

[TNGunsmoke]

I get the same season framework I guess you mean dates and bag limits.

But I'm not sure what you mean by the same hunting outcome.

It's like equality vs equity. Equality we all have the same starting point. Equity is where everyone has the same outcome, regardless of what they put in. So with equality, we all have the same season and bag limits, equity is where every one is gonna kill x number of deer, and a 150+ behind every tree.

 

[Snake]

Snake, I think we're on the same page with this.

So, why would you want to promote more of this "dependency", instead of less?

Just saying, "legalizing" a bad idea often creates even more problems, more dependency.

The issues are never as cut & dry as we would wish, but giving someone, or some animal,
"something for nothing", often back-fires to the person or animal being momentarily helped?

A wild animal "earns" its living by learning how to feed itself and avoid danger.
A human does similarly?

As I said and quoting others statements that in the real world of hunting deer don't frequent baiting sites as often as one thinks. But where they are safe they'll hang out more . If baiting is allowed and if using anti- aflatoxin corn or other bait is the only bait used then I don't see a problem . I am thinking on those that can't put out food plots and I guess kinda evening the playing field somewhat . I tried to make a small plot on my small area but it just won't grow or should I say sustain a growth long . Just not feasible . Like I once said my feeding area was once started just to get an ideal of what frequented my place and to get deer used to coming to an area . It worked and I haven't put anything out in a couple of years except minerals and trophy rock and deer even bucks frequently come through those two areas. My place is just about like all others once gun season rolls its a hit or a miss and I hunt other areas I have permission to hunt trying to learn the deer patterns . I'll admit it's hard as it's all big woods not like hunting middle Tennessee but I'm learning just wished I was younger . Educating hunters instead of bashing them to some dangers supposedly associated with baiting is the way some should have went instead of calling them names ( stupid , silly , dumb)for their opinions.

‭‭Proverbs 15:1 KJV‬‬
[1] A soft answer turneth away wrath: But grievous words stir up anger.

Proverbs 15:1 A soft answer turneth away wrath: But grievous words stir up anger. | King James Version (KJV) | Download The Bible App Now

A soft answer turneth away wrath: But grievous words stir up anger.

bible.com

 

[FredRog72]

As I said and quoting others statements that in the real world of hunting deer don't frequent baiting sites as often as one thinks. But where they are safe they'll hang out more . If baiting is allowed and if using anti- aflatoxin corn or other bait is the only bait used then I don't see a problem . I am thinking on those that can't put out food plots and I guess kinda evening the playing field somewhat . I tried to make a small plot on my small area but it just won't grow or should I say sustain a growth long . Just not feasible . Like I once said my feeding area was once started just to get an ideal of what frequented my place and to get deer used to coming to an area . It worked and I haven't put anything out in a couple of years except minerals and trophy rock and deer even bucks frequently come through those two areas. My place is just about like all others once gun season rolls its a hit or a miss and I hunt other areas I have permission to hunt trying to learn the deer patterns . I'll admit it's hard as it's all big woods not like hunting middle Tennessee but I'm learning just wished I was younger . Educating hunters instead of bashing them to some dangers supposedly associated with baiting is the way some should have went instead of calling them names ( atupid , silly , dumb)for their opinions.

‭‭Proverbs 15:1 KJV‬‬
[1] A soft answer turneth away wrath: But grievous words stir up anger.

Proverbs 15:1 A soft answer turneth away wrath: But grievous words stir up anger. | King James Version (KJV) | Download The Bible App Now

A soft answer turneth away wrath: But grievous words stir up anger.

bible.com

Amen!

 

[timberjack86]

Heard one comment that said I think Kentucky has allowed baiting for two decades or something like that. Those of you that hunt Kentucky could I humbly ask ....are there any wild turkeys in ole Kentucky ? Shouldn't be according to the data I'm receiving here on this topic. Aflatoxin should have them extinct by now .

I seen plenty of turkeys in Kentucky this year.

 

[killingtime 41]

Spoken like a true Yankee.

I'd bet a weeks pay on that one.

 

[Flintlocksforme]

While I agree to your fairness statement. Legal Baiting on public land would be a site to see. You'd have acres upon acres with piles of everything known to man. I don't see why they would legalize baiting at this point in the game. Are they trying to explode the cwd rate or what. Cause the info the TWRA puts out about CWD and how it's transmitted would be awfully misleading and very counterproductive. If we are to believe what they put out.

Good point! More CWD = more money. They can't sell a lifetime license but once and they got big raises last year.

 

[Flintlocksforme]

I've gained some education hunting over corn the past 4 years. I've been going on a semi-guided hunt in KY where it's legal. I've hunted all seasons, from the first bow hunt in early September, an early rut hunt in late October, the hottest rut week in November, to the latest one, a mid-January bow hunt this year. Two weeks ago, I decided to stop the semi-guided hunts, and I'm now on a KY lease and can hunt the way I'm used to hunting in TN.
In talking with many hunters in KY over the years, it seems most hunters don't bow hunt like in TN. They wait until the gun season, hunt over their corn piles and/or feeders, and shoot their one buck, and they're done. Here's what I've experienced hunting over their corn piles: Out of 4 semi-guided hunts across 4 very different periods of the season, I only killed one 10-point during the peak rut hunt that was chasing a doe and nowhere near that corn pile; however, last year in the early-September bow hunt I missed a chance at a 160" coming to the corn pile that was killed by another hunter the next week from the same stand. I attribute that to zero-pressure hunting while they are on tight late summer patterns. That first week of season over corn is by far their highest success rate. The early rut hunt in October 4 years ago I saw 65 does over the first three days before seeing a buck. They were hitting the corn hard, but no bucks. When I moved away from the corn and hunted somewhere that wasn't baited I saw several bucks the last two days and one shooter. I guess I say all that to say this. Deer can clearly be drawn to congregate at corn piles, but it appears you've mostly just created a great place to kill does and younger bucks. It may not be so much that mature buck's natural instincts are to recognize that pile of corn (or feeder) as a source of danger, more so than it is that we teach them that very quickly by sneaking into and exiting a stand under cover of darkness that's 30-50 yards or so away. Almost every time I walked to one of their stands I would blow out deer at the corn pile. And, how does one sneak out of a stand with 10-15 deer binging on a corn pile 30 yards away?...you don't! Bottom line: KY has been hunting over corn for a very long time, at least 20 years that I can remember. They are still a top state for taking a B&C, and in fact, they were moved up from the #5 state to the #4 state with the most B&C bucks taken since 2020. Tennessee, with its non-baiting law, had to deal with CWD long before KY did. IMHO, we are blowing this WAY out of proportion. Make it legal, don't make it legal, I don't care. However, I've seen it work out just fine in KY for at least two decades. I believe it might increase your chances of taking a doe or small buck sooner than you normally would but decrease your chances of killing a mature buck. Either way, I don't see it changing the total numbers killed, or adversely affecting the deer population as much as some are fearing. Several states have integrated it just fine. It won't change the way I hunt because I prefer trophy hunting. I'd rather eat venison from a 140" than from a doe, it just makes me smile bigger while I'm chewing. It will make it easier to fill tags for some, but they will likely fill them anyway. The transition from recurves, old lever action 30-30s and shotguns with slugs, old Hawken muzzleloaders with round balls, trail cameras, ATVs, etc...have contributed to more deer being killed easier than a corn pile will ever do! It hasn't been the downfall in any other state that it's legal, so whether it becomes legal in TN or not, we will be ok...IMHO.

Maybe the dumb ones are killed over corn and taken out of the gene pools. Leaving the big ones to reproduce and get old staying out of the corn pile especially in the daytime.

 

[Doskil]

Placed on cal. State Government Committee for 2/28/2024