baiting in Tennessee

[DoubleRidge]

The "Deer Corn" people buy in Tennessee is illegal to be sold in Texas. Never mind that aflatoxin may be less an issue in Texas due to their more arid climate. With our high humidity in TN, even livestock-grade corn often develops aflatoxin after it's been laying on the ground a few days or stored in a humid environment.

Aflatoxin seldom kills deer, but it usually makes them "sick", more likely to get sicker from something else, and more likely to be caught by a predator. Actually, any stationary feeding location can quickly increase fawn predation. This is particularly true of button buck fawns around feeding stations. Just because you don't find the fawn bone piles doesn't mean they didn't die before reaching a year of age.

Deer under a year of age have the highest mortality rates of any age class.
Yet how often have you found the skeletal remains of a fawn? Never?
This is because the bones of young deer are not that "hard" and quickly disintegrate and/or get eaten (unlike adult deer bones).

Aflatoxin corn is particularly deadly to birds.
The smaller the bird, the more deadly a single kernel, which can kill an adult turkey.
One kernel.

IMO, aflatoxin corn has been a significant factor in the near extinction of bobwhite quail in TN. As more people began using feeders loaded with "deer corn", they contributed to the reduction in quail numbers. I've also seen entire flocks of turkeys wiped out by a single bag of "deer corn".

Deny it all you want, but your only kidding yourself if you think aflatoxin isn't a risk, the corn feeding often doing more harm than good overall. The aflatoxin risk is minimized with standing corn in a field as well as corn remaining on the cob. So a food plot of corn doesn't have the risk of a bag of corn.

Another great post on the topic for those who are interested in actually reading and learning about the risk.....the comparison between TX and TN is particularly interesting....non certified corn is illegal in TX for a reason....and as mentioned TN is much more humid meaning there's a higher risk of developing aflatoxin.
Knowing this.....logic would say land managers would be better off to spend their money on chainsaw gas to open the canopy or tractor fuel to bush hog strips and encourage new growth or prescribed burn in patches.....all of which would cost less that feeding tainted corn year around.....and these methods will benefit all wildlife.

 

[Ski]

You prolly don't get a bunch of pics either. Occasionally yes, but not consistently is my guess.

I know you weren't specifically directing this to me, but I think you'd be surprised how many pictures get taken on travel corridors, plots, and scrapes. I get tens of thousands of pictures every year from two dozen cameras spread over 3-5 properties and zero corn or bait piles. This past season I ran cams on 4 properties. My favorite places are scrapes and pinch points along travel corridors.

First one's in Coffee Co., a waterway crossing pinch point. I get thousands of pics per year on that camera. Almost no deer move through the property without crossing in front of that camera. Year round daily pics.

Second one is a broken strand fence crossing. I get thousands of pics from that camera alone.

Third one is the bottom flat of a ravine where 4 different finger ridge tips converge where a hollow ends in a bowl.

Fourth is a buck bedding area on the edge of a point where a long hogback ridge drops in elevation into a 200yd long saddle before rising back up to level again. From mid Oct through mid Dec I catch a variety of big bucks regularly using this bedding zone.

Aside from a few scrapes inside food plots, I don't hang cameras at food. I don't hunt over food so I find no value in putting a camera to watch deer eat. Whatever the food source is that deer eat, there are multiple paralleling trails leading to it, and chances are better than not that there's a spot where those trails get funneled into a convergence such as shown. By default, any deer you catch at the food can also be caught at that pinch point, and since the deer only briefly pass through that spot, it can be hunted over & over without fear of blowing out the food source. You can hang & check a camera without fear of spooking the deer away. You can access stands without spooking deer away. These aren't spots deer hang out, except the bedding. But even this specific bedding area isn't typical. There's no cover. It's just a spot with a view overlooking a thick doe bedding area 150yds below. Bucks stay for a few minutes to a couple hours, only in middle of day, then move along. They don't stay all day long like a core bed, so chances of busting a buck out is possible but not likely.

My point isn't to argue, only to offer a different perspective. Food isn't a requirement for good trail cam action. It's not even the best. Scouting pinch points isn't as easy or "instant gratification" as pouring out corn, but it's well worth the effort. You're not attracting deer to a spot. You're seeing them in their natural routine. For hunting purposes I find that to be infinitely more valuable.

 

[Roost 1]

I know you weren't specifically directing this to me, but I think you'd be surprised how many pictures get taken on travel corridors, plots, and scrapes. I get tens of thousands of pictures every year from two dozen cameras spread over 3-5 properties and zero corn or bait piles. This past season I ran cams on 4 properties. My favorite places are scrapes and pinch points along travel corridors.

First one's in Coffee Co., a waterway crossing pinch point. I get thousands of pics per year on that camera. Almost no deer move through the property without crossing in front of that camera. Year round daily pics.

Second one is a broken strand fence crossing. I get thousands of pics from that camera alone.

Third one is the bottom flat of a ravine where 4 different finger ridge tips converge where a hollow ends in a bowl.

Fourth is a buck bedding area on the edge of a point where a long hogback ridge drops in elevation into a 200yd long saddle before rising back up to level again. From mid Oct through mid Dec I catch a variety of big bucks regularly using this bedding zone.

Aside from a few scrapes inside food plots, I don't hang cameras at food. I don't hunt over food so I find no value in putting a camera to watch deer eat. Whatever the food source is that deer eat, there are multiple paralleling trails leading to it, and chances are better than not that there's a spot where those trails get funneled into a convergence such as shown. By default, any deer you catch at the food can also be caught at that pinch point, and since the deer only briefly pass through that spot, it can be hunted over & over without fear of blowing out the food source. You can hang & check a camera without fear of spooking the deer away. You can access stands without spooking deer away. These aren't spots deer hang out, except the bedding. But even this specific bedding area isn't typical. There's no cover. It's just a spot with a view overlooking a thick doe bedding area 150yds below. Bucks stay for a few minutes to a couple hours, only in middle of day, then move along. They don't stay all day long like a core bed, so chances of busting a buck out is possible but not likely.

My point isn't to argue, only to offer a different perspective. Food isn't a requirement for good trail cam action. It's not even the best. Scouting pinch points isn't as easy or "instant gratification" as pouring out corn, but it's well worth the effort. You're not attracting deer to a spot. You're seeing them in their natural routine. For hunting purposes I find that to be infinitely more valuable.

This a great reply with solid advise. Definitely not the norm. Do you get several turkey pics using these same types of methods?

 

[TheLBLman]

.....logic would say land managers would be better off to spend their money on chainsaw gas to open the canopy or tractor fuel to bush hog strips and encourage new growth or prescribed burn in patches.....all of which would cost less that feeding tainted corn year around.....and these methods will benefit all wildlife.

As they say in Texas, "There you go."

As stated previously, it's not that aflatoxin corn directly or quickly kills deer, but it does increase their mortality, and can do a lot more overall harm than good, especially if you value any birds using your property, as it does quickly kill birds. Many may die a few hundred yards away, making their deaths less noticeable to those using feeders.

I've seen all appear to go well for months on end, even years, then suddenly a single bag of bad corn wipes out all your turkeys. If you don't want turkeys on your property, I can't think of a better way to get rid of them, than feed them some poison.

Part of what makes the risks more difficult to realize is that we directly, quickly see the benefits, but fail to observe the longer-term detriments, much of which is not localized to within 100 yds of a feeder. Nor do we get a picture or find the remains when coyotes ambush a button buck 100 yds from the feeder, and leave not a trace in the area of what they did. Predators seem to quickly cue in on the area around a feeder as a location they can more regularly & easily ambush a meal. But that does not mean you get all this on your trail cam near the feeder.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

You prolly don't get a bunch of pics either. Occasionally yes, but not consistently is my guess.

A couple thousand a week.

 

[Ski]

This a great reply with solid advise. Definitely not the norm. Do you get several turkey pics using these same types of methods?

I do in some of them, especially water crossings. They generally follow the same paths of deer. All animals do, actually. The only places I can't recall catching turkeys on cam is tight ravine bottoms. I suspect it's because of the high walls enclosing them, making them feel vulnerable. Bucks on the other hand prefer staying under the horizon. By their nature deer feel vulnerable in the wide open while turkeys feel vulnerable in tight, thick places.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

Aflatoxin is not a threat to deer

every deer in ohio tx nc alabama ga ky would be dead
those states have a good herd and different climates

plenty of corn on ground naturally in illinois nebraska iowa

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bowhunting.com/blog/2018/02/02/toxic-bait-affect-deer/?amp

 

[Wrangler95]

I sure never use corn or other foods to hunt over but I do put out corn in July and August to get cam pics.I am not doing that anymore.I sure dont want the birds and deer to be posioned!I wished everyone would stop doing because the turkey's are getting thinner each year!I dont know for sure just like others but the population is getting thinner in my County!Deer are doing great but not the turkey's!

 

[Deer Assassin]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bowhunting.com/blog/2018/02/02/toxic-bait-affect-deer/?amp

I will read this article this eve when i get home

i do believe it is real
3 horses died in humphreys county from co-op corn in 2007 ish

i dont believe it is a threat to the deer herd





show me a link to a state that allows baiting and their deer herd was diminished so bad that made it illegal again

 

[DoubleRidge]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bowhunting.com/blog/2018/02/02/toxic-bait-affect-deer/?amp

Interesting and informative link...thanks for sharing.....one comment in the article I hadn't heard before:

"The U.S. Food and Drug Administration does not allow feeds testing more than 20 parts per billion of aflatoxins to be fed to dairy cattle or in grain products chosen for human consumption".

Interesting....also concerning is the percentage of contaminated bags found during this study in Texas......it's no wonder non-certified wildlife feed is illegal in Texas.....can't blame them.

 

[megalomaniac]

I'm getting pics of the big buck locally in daylight on scrapes next to thickets 500y away from the feeder that my buddies are only getting nighttime pics of him.

 

[rifle02]

In my opinion it is much different.

Not the same

 

[Roost 1]

I'm getting pics of the big buck locally in daylight on scrapes next to thickets 500y away from the feeder that my buddies are only getting nighttime pics of him.

But he is using the feeder…

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

I will read this article this eve when i get home

i do believe it is real
3 horses died in humphreys county from co-op corn in 2007 ish

i dont believe it is a threat to the deer herd





show me a link to a state that allows baiting and their deer herd was diminished so bad that made it illegal again

I do not believe anyone made such a claim.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

Interesting and informative link...thanks for sharing.....one comment in the article I hadn't heard before:

"The U.S. Food and Drug Administration does not allow feeds testing more than 20 parts per billion of aflatoxins to be fed to dairy cattle or in grain products chosen for human consumption".

Interesting....also concerning is the percentage of contaminated bags found during this study in Texas......it's no wonder non-certified wildlife feed is illegal in Texas.....can't blame them.

That's right. I used to feed corn before season to get pictures and then again after season for inventory but i stopped doing it 15 years ago when i started researching it. I believe it is more harmful to turkeys than deer from the research that i have done. Assumptions can be a dangerous thing. I try to learn and apply as much as i can.

 

[Deer 1]

I do both. Grow about 5 acres of various food plots and feed when seasons closed.

Really enjoy watching wildlife!!!

I can't say it enough but I really like the satisfaction of seeing my crops grow. Walk through them almost every morning & find so much peace doing so.

Your results may vary?

Yeah, I know u grew better sunflowers

 

[Deer Assassin]

I do not believe anyone made such a claim.

You are correct

I made a wrong statement
I said it was not a threat to deer

You pointed out it is …. I know it will kill a deer

I mis typed

It is not a threat to overall deer herd IMO
Which I am not all that smart


I just think Twra need to spend their time busting real wildlife violation vs baiting

 

[Ski]

That's right. I used to feed corn before season to get pictures and then again after season for inventory but i stopped doing it 15 years ago when i started researching it. I believe it is more harmful to turkeys than deer from the research that i have done. Assumptions can be a dangerous thing. I try to learn and apply as much as i can.

That's what I really enjoy about this place. For the internet, this site is an unusually civil exchange of knowledge with a wealth of well informed membership. I wish I'd been here when I was a kid .... but internet wasn't a thing yet!

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

You are correct

I made a wrong statement
I said it was not a threat to deer

You pointed out it is …. I know it will kill a deer

I mis typed

It is not a threat to overall deer herd IMO
Which I am not all that smart


I just think Twra need to spend their time busting real wildlife violation vs baiting

You are most certainly entitled to your opinion and yours means as much as the next person. As far as the overall deer herd, CWD will not kill the entire herd either, but i certainly do not want it. I cant control CWD, but i can protect the deer on my property from another possible threat, which is tainted corn.

Baiting is a real wildlife violation for the reasons we are discussing and others.

 

[megalomaniac]

Buddy is still hunting the feeder. Didn't see a deer today, but the big boy.came to eat again after dark tonight.

Again, I think hunting over bait is a wast of time, at least in south MS. I've told my buddy where he needs to go to intercept this buck coming from his bed, but he's bought into the whole hunting over feeders thing... 4 more days till season end.