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Baiting Bill HB1618/SB1942

Should baiting be allowed on private land?

  • Yes

    Votes: 192 40.4%
  • No

    Votes: 209 44.0%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 74 15.6%

  • Total voters
    475
Let me add just a little.

Just to be clear, aflatoxin rarely "kills" deer, just more or less makes them sick at their stomachs, or "puny". But, that can make them temporarily weaker, and easier for dogs & coyotes to catch. Dripping diarrhea, also probably leaving a trial for those dogs & coyotes to follow as well?

Corn that is spread over a cultivated plot or field is much less likely to develop the aflatoxin mold than is corn poured in a pile in a single "spot".

There are reasons why corn spread around in a field is less likely to develop aflatoxin. Being out in a field, it's more visible to birds flying over. Birds such as blackbirds, crows, and doves will typically eat 100% of the visible corn in a matter of days. This means there is little risk of "piling" (under which aflatoxin is more likely to develop).

Another reason we see less aflatoxin in a field is because whatever corn gets left, it's continuously receiving more sunlight & wind than compared to a pile of corn in the woods. Sun & wind helps keep scattered corn kernels dry and aflatoxin-free. By contrast, corn can mold just being inside an enclosed "feeder", as well as just being "piled" on the ground.

Beyond that, there is another big difference in the aflatoxin risks of a corn field vs a corn "feeder" or a corn "pile'. Much of the corn sold in places like Wal-mart in Tennessee already contains the aflatoxin.

Corn grown in a field, left behind for wildlife, or inadvertently just a farmer's harvest loss, has to "develop" aflatoxin
, which again, is simply much less likely in an open field getting sunshine & wind (unlike a shady corn pile in the woods, or an enclosed feeder, the inside burning in direct sunlight). Also, should a farmer accidently dump a "pile" of shelled corn in a field, being very visible to birds (typically crows), it gets quickly eaten, before it develops aflatoxin. It is then NOT replenished, no aflatoxin develops.

As to the deer hunting implications of hunting over a corn field (or plot) compared to a pile of corn in the woods, it's the difference of deer always coming to the same "spot" (bait pile) rather than being scattered around or over a field. And since any corn remaining in a field is not replenished (unlike a bait pile), the deer never spend much time in any particular spot.

In fact, they often are essentially "done" spending much time in any particular field or plot after only a few days of feeding on any one particular item (such as corn). Whatever they were eating, becomes gone, eaten up. But the deer will be back, maybe in days, maybe in weeks, maybe in months, because a field will grow other plants, that will sprout & grow, then become available as food for deer.

Mother Nature just spreads the food out, rather than pouring it from a bag in one spot. This is one of many ways nature "naturally" reduces predation on deer, AND provides deer with a diverse source of foods needed to be healthy. Feeding deer corn is like feeding your child only candy, i.e. not at all healthy, can even stunt bone (and antler) growth.
Serious curiosity on this question, would like your response.

The reasons you give not corn baiting is interesting and I agree/ believe the same things. What I don't understand is what I think is a double standard.

Baiting/ feeding with corn is perfectly legal unless you kill over it, so with that why is it allowed if there is real risks to the animal why does twra give nonsense answers and answers that don't add up or contradict other responses about baiting deer.

The double standard being a non hunter can feed them anything but a hunter can't? I add a hunter can legally feed or bait but not kill over it. I can place bait then go hunt their travel routes to it, given im the right distance away... WTH.
 
Heard one comment that said I think Kentucky has allowed baiting for two decades or something like that. Those of you that hunt Kentucky could I humbly ask ....are there any wild turkeys in ole Kentucky ? Shouldn't be according to the data I'm receiving here on this topic. Aflatoxin should have them extinct by now .
 
Heard one comment that said I think Kentucky has allowed baiting for two decades or something like that. Those of you that hunt Kentucky could I humbly ask ....are there any wild turkeys in ole Kentucky ? Shouldn't be according to the data I'm receiving here on this topic. Aflatoxin should have them extinct by now .
There are a lot of dynamics that could be affecting that besides bait. However, it's not like Kentucky has been immune to the decline in wild turkeys and there's no real way to tell how much if that is due to aflatoxin killing poults or other factors.

When you list all the negatives of bait, then list the positives (which there are literally zero except making it easy to kill deer), it doesn't leave much room for defending bait piles.
 
Sent! My Rep is a co sponsor of this bill so I don't expect to hear back from him.
Emailed my Rep yesterday (Rep Barrett) and he replied:

Thanks for reaching out. That Bill wont come before any of the committees I sit on, so I wouldnt see it unless it gets to the House floor...which is doubtful.

Hope hes correct.
 
Heard one comment that said I think Kentucky has allowed baiting for two decades or something like that. Those of you that hunt Kentucky could I humbly ask ....are there any wild turkeys in ole Kentucky ? Shouldn't be according to the data I'm receiving here on this topic. Aflatoxin should have them extinct by now .
Turkey are plentiful in Trigg and Christian counties where row crop corn is plentiful and the combines are set to exclude small grains which broadcasts corn like you would wheat at times. If it weren't for the aflatoxin we would have to bus turkeys out like illegal aliens.
Lol

In all seriousness I don't bait turkeys on any of the farms I oversee but corn is as common here as ragweed!
There is a supplier out of oak grove that is cleaning, testing and labeling corn aflatoxin free!

My turkeys all have clover in their crawls
 
Heard one comment that said I think Kentucky has allowed baiting for two decades or something like that. Those of you that hunt Kentucky could I humbly ask ....are there any wild turkeys in ole Kentucky ? Shouldn't be according to the data I'm receiving here on this topic. Aflatoxin should have them extinct by now .
Quick search on the topic out of curiosity:

"Researchers are talking and collaborating with each other, trying to figure out what's going on across the wild turkey's range,
Kentucky is currently working with Tennessee Tech University and the University of Georgia".

My understanding is the study is trying to understand the decline in numbers over the last 10 years?

Not saying aflatoxin is the main cause..tons of variables or reasons im sure.....but I'd rather TN not add too the challenges our deer and turkey are already facing.
 
Heard one comment that said I think Kentucky has allowed baiting for two decades or something like that. Those of you that hunt Kentucky could I humbly ask ....are there any wild turkeys in ole Kentucky ? Shouldn't be according to the data I'm receiving here on this topic. Aflatoxin should have them extinct by now .
I don't have years of experience hunting Turkey in Tennessee or Kentucky but from my limited experience, there are more in my area than I ever saw in Tennessee. I drive by large agricultural fields everyday on my way home and have seen some of the largest flocks of Turkey one could imagine in Kentucky. Now, I'm only in a small portion of Western Kentucky, so I can't speak for the State.

To be fair, you aren't allowed to bait/hunt bait for Turkey in Kentucky. So any corn piles are not for Turkey! LOL

I've run a spin cast feeder on the north side of my property for over 2 years now with a camera on it 100% of the time. It doesn't stay full or run year round and I don't hunt over it although I could if I wanted to, but in over 2 years, I've had one instance where Turkeys came near the feeder. I typically have Turkeys around the property 75% of the year.
 
I was traveling from West Tennessee on Monday and saw a bunch of turkeys in a corn field eating what the harvester left behind....Wonder how many of those Turkeys will be dead by Spring from Rotten Corn left laying around????
Considering I have watched turkeys eat animal feces on more than one occasion, I'd say they will be alright. But I'm no biologist.
 
Just out of curiosity, I did a quick search of states that DO NOT allow baiting to see if they have had any decline in their turkey population. Here's a headline from November of 2023 regarding the non-baiting state of Illinois. A significant decline from their peak nearly 20 years ago...interesting.

By Jo Marquez
Published on November 17, 2023
Hunters in Illinois harvested 262 wild turkeys in the 2023 fall season, a minor decrease from the previous year.
Though these numbers are significantly lower than the 2005 record of 1,218 birds, several factors could explain the decrease in harvest numbers and permit sales as reported by the Illinois Government News Network.
 
I do understand the threats from mold and aflatoxins but this talk is creating a completely incorrect view that corn is all bad. I have fed livestock all my life and have studied feed for the duration and now folks trying to tell me that something that has been so good for the health and production of livestock is terribly bad for another ruminate or fowl. Corn is carbohydrates by and large with a little protein to boot. Fowl use carbs to help maintain their body temp in cold weather, low protein means it requires less water to digest so there could be less dehydration, fat stores are built quickly with carbs, proteins build muscle, animals entering winter with some fat reserves come out of winter having been stressed less. I am not pro baiting, for myself I am against it for the sporting value it has to me but over all I don't see the threat from it changing much when it comes to deer.
Turkeys are another topic. I have no problem supplemental feeding turkeys but universal baiting of them could be really bad.
 
I don't have years of experience hunting Turkey in Tennessee or Kentucky but from my limited experience, there are more in my area than I ever saw in Tennessee. I drive by large agricultural fields everyday on my way home and have seen some of the largest flocks of Turkey one could imagine in Kentucky. Now, I'm only in a small portion of Western Kentucky, so I can't speak for the State.

To be fair, you aren't allowed to bait/hunt bait for Turkey in Kentucky. So any corn piles are not for Turkey! LOL

I've run a spin cast feeder on the north side of my property for over 2 years now with a camera on it 100% of the time. It doesn't stay full or run year round and I don't hunt over it although I could if I wanted to, but in over 2 years, I've had one instance where Turkeys came near the feeder. I typically have Turkeys around the property 75% of the year.
I wasn't questioning weather or not you could bait for turkeys just the fact that baiting is allowed and has been in Kentucky for some time . It's bad for the turkeys I've been told and is factual but seems to me it is blown out of proportion. Other adjoining states have been doing it some time as well so I was just wanting an actual hunters opinion , thanks.
 
Serious curiosity on this question, would like your response.

The reasons you give not corn baiting is interesting and I agree/ believe the same things. What I don't understand is what I think is a double standard.

Baiting/ feeding with corn is perfectly legal unless you kill over it, so with that why is it allowed if there is real risks to the animal why does twra give nonsense answers and answers that don't add up or contradict other responses about baiting deer.

The double standard being a non hunter can feed them anything but a hunter can't? I add a hunter can legally feed or bait but not kill over it. I can place bait then go hunt their travel routes to it, given im the right distance away... WTH.
Exactly !!!
 
I do understand the threats from mold and aflatoxins but this talk is creating a completely incorrect view that corn is all bad. I have fed livestock all my life and have studied feed for the duration and now folks trying to tell me that something that has been so good for the health and production of livestock is terribly bad for another ruminate or fowl. Corn is carbohydrates by and large with a little protein to boot. Fowl use carbs to help maintain their body temp in cold weather, low protein means it requires less water to digest so there could be less dehydration, fat stores are built quickly with carbs, proteins build muscle, animals entering winter with some fat reserves come out of winter having been stressed less. I am not pro baiting, for myself I am against it for the sporting value it has to me but over all I don't see the threat from it changing much when it comes to deer.
Turkeys are another topic. I have no problem supplemental feeding turkeys but universal baiting of them could be really bad.
Thats interesting and I appreciate and respect your opinion on the topic....In my case it was Dr Dan Smith a Veterinarian out of Franklin that actually steered me away from feed that contained corn. We had a horse that was having some digestive issues and he strongly recommended we switch from feeds that contain corn to rolled oats....I asked why and he gave a long explanation talking about hybrid corns today vs. the corn he grew up with along with mold and toxins....this is where my thoughts on corn started to shift and I began to weigh the benifits for deer, turkey and sonbirds vs the risk....I love a good grain finished ribeye...so I dont hate corn...I hate the idea of tainted afltoxin corn being fed to wildlife.
 
Ahh I wouldn't go suggesting to educate one's self from what they read on a forum.
As a matter of fact, forums are known to have a lot of false information-lol. Best you take your own advice. Also, it's not that big of a deal if people set up feeders. Keeping
cervid populations culled would likely help to prevent the spread of disease. Your forum name seems quite appropriate for your mind set.
I didn't suggest for you to educate yourself from a forum, but to simply educate yourself. My forum name does indeed fit me. My education in wildlife biology does not fit my screen name i suppose, but is fairly extensive. I care for all wildlife and will not put lazy short cuts to accomplish personal hunting goals in front of the well being of all wildlife species.
 
And how so? Have you seen me hunt? I've let does walk with fawns...I tag every deer I kill...I respect every deer I take...i use every part of the deer most throw away..all the way down to the fat for soaps...and give thanks for it's life...the choice to bait or not bait should be my freedom to choose...that doesn't make me unethical

If that is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, then you seem to be a person who cares about the animals you hunt. If so then take the time to at least lightly research the adverse affects baiting can have on all wildlife, not just deer. There are endless resources on the subject and many published academic studies. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, only asking that you read up on it for yourself. Is that reasonable?
 
I wasn't questioning weather or not you could bait for turkeys just the fact that baiting is allowed and has been in Kentucky for some time . It's bad for the turkeys I've been told and is factual but seems to me it is blown out of proportion. Other adjoining states have been doing it some time as well so I was just wanting an actual hunters opinion , thanks.
The baiting Turkeys was more of a joke but the part I bolded above is what I see more than anything.
 
Thats interesting and I appreciate and respect your opinion on the topic....In my case it was Dr Dan Smith a Veterinarian out of Franklin that actually steered me away from feed that contained corn. We had a horse that was having some digestive issues and he strongly recommended we switch from feeds that contain corn to rolled oats....I asked why and he gave a long explanation talking about hybrid corns today vs. the corn he grew up with along with mold and toxins....this is where my thoughts on corn started to shift and I began to weigh the benifits for deer, turkey and sonbirds vs the risk....I love a good grain finished ribeye...so I dont hate corn...I hate the idea of tainted afltoxin corn being fed to wildlife.
Thank you for this, maybe some more reading.
 
EVEN WORSE, is legally allowing hunting over bait (baiting) on the private lands surrounding the public lands?

If you look at at only a half-mile wide perimeter of private land around most public lands, that "band" of private property often exceeds the acreage of the public land being surrounded.

The deer on the public land are the same deer on the private land.
Deer (and ducks, and doves, and all wildlife) belong to the public, not the private landowner.

Should it be a private property right to be able to "lure" public deer off public lands with methods not legal for hunters on public lands? That would be like saying the laws don't apply to politicians, but the general public must obey the laws the political class is allowed to exploit?
Public deer that come on my private land is fair game. You should stop hunting LBL because not everyone can hunt there and your killing the publics deer
 
If that is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, then you seem to be a person who cares about the animals you hunt. If so then take the time to at least lightly research the adverse affects baiting can have on all wildlife, not just deer. There are endless resources on the subject and many published academic studies. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, only asking that you read up on it for yourself. Is that reasonable?
I have and I know them...
 
If that is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, then you seem to be a person who cares about the animals you hunt. If so then take the time to at least lightly research the adverse affects baiting can have on all wildlife, not just deer. There are endless resources on the subject and many published academic studies. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, only asking that you read up on it for yourself. Is that reasonable?
And that is very reasonable btw
 

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