Land Management Skill vs Hunting Skill

[Gravey]

You're a freaking moron and a pathetic piece of crap. You can't manage your land or kill big trophy bucks so shut your pie hole and keep killing scrubs and does that anybody with a pulse can kill.









Ok was that a good Facebook response? you know I'm kidding. Every good buck I've killed has probably been based on luck and/or the buck being on a suicide mission.

 

[deerhunter10]

In the middle, for those that do it year after year. For me it's not the bone on top of the head it's how old is the deer. The people killing mature deer in tn year after year generally are doing both things. You can have all the food plots and cameras and shooting houses you want to if you aren't hunting them smart the majority of people aren't getting that lucky year after year. You have to have hunting skill to kill mature deer year after year. Habitat improvement don't kill them for you just can help you. If it were that easy everyone would be doing it. Social media and TV makes it seems like it is but in reality I know a lot of people that do not punch tags year after year that I consider very good hunters and also a lot good at Habitat. Habitat improvements have been going on for decades it seems to me honestly it's becoming a hot topic mainly because of the turkeys and some of the deer. I will also say this I know people that hunt private that would no doubt get it done on public as well. Just because someone kills big deer on private land doesn't make then any less of a hunter than those on public or vice versa. The private vs public land debate is always hot and heavy on YouTube with some of those channels on there.

 

[deerhunter10]

I think land management does a lot to get them there. I know guys personally that drive up from Atlanta, or down from Nashville, climb into a blind with no prior scouting ( even using a borrowed rifle) and shoot 140+ deer. It's not their skill level it's the land management and food plots. I've even sat in the blind a day before and saw nothing and the next day a mature deer is killed from there.

Maybe the land but that's called luck as well some days it's your day.

 

[Ski]

Issue is are they really using hunting skills to kill those deer or are they using habitat management skills to kill most of those deer? I get that you would want to improve your hunting odds by doing habitat work and I aim to do so myself, but in doing so, am I know deer hunting or just managing habitat and shooting (hopefully) higher quality bucks?



I guess my question is are we still good hunters or are we just becoming good land managers that shoot deer from time to time?

Habitat management is a work in progress, an education in peeling layers from an onion. The more I learn, the more I realize there's even more to learn. Every "enhancement" is accompanied by unforeseen pitfalls that present problems needing solved. I enjoy the challenge and the work, but it doesn't come without risk.

On public land if you spook a buck you can move and find another buck to hunt. It doesn't work that way on your own ground. If you spook him he's gone and all that effort, money, and time spent creating an environment for him is wasted. That in itself will force you to become a better, smarter, more calculating hunter because you're vested in that deer and habitat. And the sense of accomplishment you get when you tag him is unlike any deer you've ever killed on public. Simply indescribable, even if he's not your biggest.

I've hunted public my entire life and still do. It's tough in its own ways. I love it. But it's not tougher than managed private land. It's different with different challenges. I think you're really going to enjoy managing habitat on your own dirt. I'd be interested in revisting this topic from time to time to see how your perspective changes as you experience hunting on land you manage. Having done it myself it has for sure changed my perspective. I used to think it must be easy killing big bucks on well managed private land. Now I know from first hand experience that's not true.

 

[MUP]

I'm an above-average habitat manager.
I'm a below-average hunter.

My habitat management skills have helped draw more high-end bucks to my personal property. Thankfully, I've killed a couple. But I've NOT killed more top end bucks I knew were using my property than I can count (several dozen, that's for sure).

Draw a lot of nice bucks to a given property and even a below-average hunter will kill one now and then.

I'm a below avg hunter, with below average hunting time, with undeveloped woodland property to hunt, and I still fall into the "every now and then" category for a good buck!

 

[PickettSFHunter]

In areas like where I primarily hunt, it can actually be easier to get a nice buck on public land…if you know what you're doing. Low deer densities either way whether it's private or public. You have to use terrain to your advantage. If you have 100 or even 500 acres, you may not have the right terrain or there may just not be a nice buck in that area that year. With huge tracts of public land, you can find the right terrain to kill a good one.

 

[Swampster]

Hmmm. I never knew it was a competition. Guess I've been doing something wrong all these years.

 

[Talome13]

EDIT:
My first response was a little harsh. Personally, I don't think about hunting this much for these types of questions to come up. And I think for questions like these to arise, it speaks for what hunting has become to some people, it's a sad reality (I'm not speaking of the OP at all, just who he's had to deal with). I'm not going to single any one social media platform out, but they hold the evidence to what the minds of some hunters have become.

My advice: Hunt happy, hunt legal, forget everything else.

 

[Bone Collector]

I know this. If a guy is regularly killing older deer ( and usually it's the same few) I'd pay close attention to his methods, regardless of how and where he hunts, but especially if he kills them in a lot of different places.

The bold and red font is kind of my point. If a guy owns a piece of land and sure at some point he had to figure out an area the bucks were using, BUT... maybe with help or research he developed a place they use, and now he is sitting in the same area and shooting big bucks year in and year out, I don't think it matters what he tells me he is doing UNLESS he tells me how to develop an area like he has or if he lets me hunt his spot. If he doesn't do either then it is of no benefit to me.

Again, I am not doing this to bash anyone. These are feelings I have as I start to try to improve habitat. I start thinking, if this works how much will I be hunting and is the accomplishment the same as just hunting raw land or public land.

The red font is kinda what I was touching on with my public land remarks.

 

[TheLBLman]

I don't have much to add, but this:

Hunting & Shooting are two different things,
although shooting is a part of hunting, sometimes a small part,
sometimes a big part.

The best hunter may not be the best shooter;
the best shooter may not be much a hunter at all.

I would put land management in the same area as shooting.

In areas like where I primarily hunt, it can actually be easier to get a nice buck on public land…if you know what you're doing.

I have also found this to be the case.
But it also depends on which apple you're comparing to which orange.

 

[Bone Collector]

Habitat management is a work in progress, an education in peeling layers from an onion. The more I learn, the more I realize there's even more to learn. Every "enhancement" is accompanied by unforeseen pitfalls that present problems needing solved. I enjoy the challenge and the work, but it doesn't come without risk.

On public land if you spook a buck you can move and find another buck to hunt. It doesn't work that way on your own ground. If you spook him he's gone and all that effort, money, and time spent creating an environment for him is wasted. That in itself will force you to become a better, smarter, more calculating hunter because you're vested in that deer and habitat. And the sense of accomplishment you get when you tag him is unlike any deer you've ever killed on public. Simply indescribable, even if he's not your biggest.

I've hunted public my entire life and still do. It's tough in its own ways. I love it. But it's not tougher than managed private land. It's different with different challenges. I think you're really going to enjoy managing habitat on your own dirt. I'd be interested in revisting this topic from time to time to see how your perspective changes as you experience hunting on land you manage. Having done it myself it has for sure changed my perspective. I used to think it must be easy killing big bucks on well managed private land. Now I know from first hand experience that's not true.

Hahaha. I bet your probably right and I don't realize what I am getting into. I remember arguing many years ago on here that trail cams were cheating and you could pattern deer and many of the members telling me "does and small bucks, but very rarely can you pattern a mature buck". 10 years later I am running cameras, love getting the pics, but they were all right. I am sure my perspective will change and I am sure I will hit some snags along the way.

 

[Lost Lake]

The bold and red font is kind of my point. If a guy owns a piece of land and sure at some point he had to figure out an area the bucks were using, BUT... maybe with help or research he developed a place they use, and now he is sitting in the same area and shooting big bucks year in and year out, I don't think it matters what he tells me he is doing UNLESS he tells me how to develop an area like he has or if he lets me hunt his spot. If he doesn't do either then it is of no benefit to me.

Again, I am not doing this to bash anyone. These are feelings I have as I start to try to improve habitat. I start thinking, if this works how much will I be hunting and is the accomplishment the same as just hunting raw land or public land.

The red font is kinda what I was touching on with my public land remarks.

I understand what you mean. And I do think that the public land hunt for an older buck can be the toughest of all.

But, I think one of the biggest mistakes made is the mindset that manicured and groomed private ground makes it a slam dunk for killing older bucks. I couldn't disagree more. There are lots of mistakes to be made on private that are all too common, and all too easy to fall into.

Over hunting good producing stands, bringing too many friends/hunters along, sitting over food plots, constantly checking cameras, and simply doing the same thing day after day or weekend after weekend are things that hurt chances on older deer on private ground IMO.

Hunting from a warm, dry shooting house and long distance shooting big ones might seem a lot easier to someone who hasn't done it (I don't, but know some that do), but even at that, knowing where to be, what days to be there, and which days NOT to be there takes some experience to figure out in the chess match.

Some public might be easier in those regards, especially ones with limited gun hunts, as sometimes just adhering to a simple game plan on just the right weekend produces big results. Public HAS gotten infinitely harder IMO in the last decade or so, due mainly to social media, but I know guys who do their big buck hunting only on it, and leave their relaxed hunting to private.

In the end, the main thing is what we all know but forget. You can't kill them where there aren't. And figuring out where they are, regardless of public or private, until a hunter develops a certain mindset, ain't easy.

 

[rtaylor]

I've been on both sides of the coin. Most of my life I've been a public land bowhunter. To be successful you have to be a good hunter and also be able to adapt to high traffic in your hunting spots. Currently I have a few acres that I can plant and a shooting house to hunt from. I still play the wind and do my fair share of Comanche sneaking but the skills needed to kill deer and big bucks pales in comparison to the way I used to hunt. That being said the land management side of things is pretty labor intensive and does require a different set of skills and knowledge.

 

[Lost Lake]

I'll add this.

There is some private ground that no matter how old a buck gets, he just ain't gonna grow big antlers. That's just the way it is, and ties into the belief that you can't kill them where they aren't.

Our family farm in a certain county in West Tennesse is an example. I've resigned myself to the belief that I'll never kill a giant there. My opinion is that the genetics just aren't there. Some friends and I have taken quite a few 4 1/2 year old plus bucks from it in the last decade, and almost none will break the 120" mark. They just won't do it. I've killed far bigger bucks on public. But, I'm okay with that, as shooting for age first makes me happy.

For a myriad of reasons, some property just won't grow em or hold em, and doing the same things year after year, even if " improvements" are made, and expecting different results can be maddening. If that's the case, a fella has to look elsewhere.

 

[Ski]

Hahaha. I bet your probably right and I don't realize what I am getting into. I remember arguing many years ago on here that trail cams were cheating and you could pattern deer and many of the members telling me "does and small bucks, but very rarely can you pattern a mature buck". 10 years later I am running cameras, love getting the pics, but they were all right. I am sure my perspective will change and I am sure I will hit some snags along the way.

You'll enjoy every minute of it. Don't worry for a minute that it won't be challenging enough because I promise you it will. And the accomplishment when killing a good buck is something you'll just have to experience. You'll get the same sense of accomplishment as your public bucks but with an added accomplishment of creating the environment that it could happen.

 

[Lost Lake]

You'll enjoy every minute of it. Don't worry for a minute that it won't be challenging enough because I promise you it will. And the accomplishment when killing a good buck is something you'll just have to experience. You'll get the same sense of accomplishment as your public bucks but with an added accomplishment of creating the environment that it could happen.

This..

 

[Snake]

Every hunter that is successful is doing something right or either he has a horse shoe up his hindend . All of those statements are true or not . First off a successful hunter needs to be a pretty good shot , I've been with some that has the best equipment money can buy and not be successful . Oh yeah they'll get a chance once in a while and you'll hear them blast the woods down but all they killed were a few saplings . But every once in a while they will connect. Having good equipment is not going to get you a deer but you do need to have reliable equipment. My brother was always a better shot than me during target practice but when we were hunting I was bringing home the deer . You could set here and name all sorts of seneriors related to deer hunting . Like what was said you can't kill deer where they are not ! Having a great place to hunt is better than what some call luck IMO . Land management usually helps but not in all cases , you could be fortunate to have a place that they run to after they start smelling human presence . We had a place in Giles Co. that three other hunter groups had turned down but they must not have scouted very far . Yes it looked awful , thick but had parts of what I call good woods but mostly bad . A total deer haven . Started killing some decent bucks once we started letting the younger bucks walk but like was mentioned would never be able to kill a truly great mature buck due to adjoining hunting and being 3 1/2 hours away . To the OP question thinking as others you have to have both but there are those who are just above others as far as hunting . Those that hunt the east Tennessee mountains and kill mature bucks consistently are those that are above others because it takes much more perseverance than most want to give .

 

[redblood]

Deer hunting requires 3 things. Skill isnt one of them- time, money, endurance.

 

[BSK]

Deer hunting requires 3 things. Skill isnt one of them- time, money, endurance.

I don't know. If the goal is mature or large-antlered bucks, I've seen WAY too many instances of one or two hunters on a lease or in a club that are ALWAYS the hunters who kill "the big one." And they aren't necessarily the ones who hunt the most. They are the ones who understand mature buck movement patterns and how terrain and habitat effect deer movement hence they hunt the smartest.

 

[deerhunter10]

Deer hunting requires 3 things. Skill isnt one of them- time, money, enendurance.

To just kill a deer sure killing a deer in middle tn is easy can't speak on east or west. Killing mature big deer Consistently takes skill.