Need sincere advice on CWD management.

DoubleRidge

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I think you have to follow the science and data, not the emotions. The OP stated that it seems 90% of TNDeer members oppose the TWRA CWD Management Plan, but I bet that of those who oppose it 90%+ have never read it (it is available on the TWRA website).
I'm not in the CWD zone but have read portions of the Management plan...but I will confess I have not read all 80 pages.

But I do enjoy reviewing data and since the data indicates that there has been no increase in the number of deer killed by hunter harvest....what does this tell us?

Does it tell us hunters are not participating in the extended season or the earn-a-buck program?

Or...does it tell us there are less deer in the area to hunt to begin with due to the increase in prevalence rate.

Honestly I have no idea....from some reports of respected members on here I would guess there are less deer to begin with because they are seeing much less deer....I cant imagine that many hunters are disiplined enough to not kill a few more deer when given the opportunity...maybe?

So if there are less deer....lets hunt them harder for a longer period of time?...but I understand....its to slow the spread.

As far as emotions go...its hard not to become concerned when you read about a rifle being allowed during the velvet hunt? Or during archery and muzzleloader...as the hunting heritage and tradition crumbles people are going to vent concerns which to me is very understandable.

Also, whether its being followed or not, the concept of kill more, test more, kill more is not appealing to many folks. So when thats the directions your given...some are going to express concerns.

And I'm not anti TWRA at all...but skipping the second, more accurate and more costly test and ending up in court....doesnt do much to encourage people to "follow the science".
 

CBU93

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Just give property owners the tools and ability to manage the herd on their properties the way they see fit. If they want to kill all the deer on their property in a hot zone, let them. If they want to not kill anything for 5 years let them…but make them participate in a data collection program to really analyze the effects of those management decisions.
 

Headhunter

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CWD is a chronic disease and 100% fatal but not immediately. It takes 1-3 years to kill the deer. Also, not every deer gets it. The infection rate where I am is 60% on bucks and 35% on does. You can do the math and see where the population doesn't become extinct.
To me math means nothing when it CWD has been around 1967 and as far as I know none of the animals that get it have become extinct. 57 years and the animals where it was first discovered are doing ok. Something doesn't add up to me.
 

MickThompson

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Cookeville, Tennessee
To me math means nothing when it CWD has been around 1967 and as far as I know none of the animals that get it have become extinct. 57 years and the animals where it was first discovered are doing ok. Something doesn't add up to me.
Once extinction happens, there's not really any coming back from it. Little late to be concerned at that point.
 

BigAl

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Fayette County, TN US
We have not changed anything in how we hunt relative to before CWD regs other than we do enjoy not having to hunt with muzzleloader (TWRA has opened modern rifle for CWD zone with timing of MZ season for the rest of the state). I enjoy this extended rifle season, but we are not killing more deer as a result of it.
This pretty much mirrors where I hunt. We're hunting longer, we're not killing more deer, and our overall deer and mature buck sitings have gone down.
 

DeerCamp

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This chart is on the TWRA CWD site for prevalence rates in Fayette and Hardeman Counties for the last 5 years — note that it does not include this past season, yet. Prevalence rates are going up especially in bucks which is consistent with what has been documented in other locations (bucks have higher prevalence rates). These numbers are combined 2 counties, so the rates are lower than the epicenter rates around Grand Junction and Ames Plantation. But the acceleration of prevalence is alarming.

View attachment 216296
This is super interesting data, because the assumption is that CWD was around for a while before we knew about it.

This data would seem to indicate that was not the case.
 

vinootz

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Definitely before it was discovered and it continues to decline. You could try to argue that we have made it worse through excessive harvest but our harvest numbers have declined each year since it was discovered as well.

We hard a very large doe harvest two years before it was discovered which probably didn't help things since it was probably just getting a foothold on the herd.

My name is Robin Floyd. I have been on TNDeer over 25 years. When I joined, I lived in Martin, TN but for over 20 years I have lived in Murray, KY. I am friends with several folks on TNDeer. Heck, Ruger probably saved my life once when he helped me drag out a huge doe a quarter of a mile thru a muddy cornfield to my truck. I am currently the Kentucky Dept of Fish & Wildlife Commissioner for the !st Congressional District, the 14 western most counties in KY. We recently discovered our first case of CWD in Ballard Co, KY, in far northwestern KY, in my District, probably 50 miles from TN. Since the discovery of the CWD positive deer in Henry Co, TN 3 years ago, the 5 counties within 20 miles of where this deer was found (Fulton, Hickman, Graves, Calloway, & Marshall) have been in a Surveillance Zone, with restrictions on baiting & minerals, import & export of unprocessed deer, & mandatory check stations. I was born in Fulton, grew up in Hickman, hunt in Graves, live in Calloway, & work in Marshall, so I'm invested. These restrictions have been fairly well tolerated. Many turkey hunters want baiting banned anyway due to aflatoxin. We have several processors in the Surveillance Zone so that hasn't been a huge issue. The first year, we had 96% compliance with the in-person check stations which we tried to make as pleasant & as much like the check stations when I was a kid as possible. (We gave away free coffee, hats, & thermoses & encouraged hunters to socialize & see what other hunters had harvested. There are no old country stores left but we had most of these check stations at processors where a lot of people were coming anyway.) KDFWR has always used the more accurate 2-step testing, BTW.

I recently read on the Tennessee Deer Hunters page that well over 90% of their members disagree with TN's CWD management plan. I am asking for advice because KDFWR need to put together a management plan that most of our hunters will go along with. We have to have hunter buy-in because deer hunters manage the deer. Thru surveys and a recent in-person CWD forum where the positive deer was harvested (a 2 1/2 y/o buck that was tending a doe.), we have learned the following:

1. Hunters want to be given the opportunity to manage any overpopulation first. If an area has too many deer, hunters want the first opportunity to rightsize the herd. If an area isn't overpopulated, they want the seasons to stay as they are. I agree with this.

2. Hunters are not in favor of killing all the deer to save the deer. The cure doesn't need to be worse than the disease. They especially don't want targeted removal in Jan & Feb where snipers kill shed bucks & pregnant does. also agree with this.

3. They don't want another modern firearm season. Right now, our modern firearm season is peak of the rut for 16 days. This is when the huge majority of our harvest occurs. Traditionally, are seasons have been set to maximize herd health & hunter opportunity. We now have over 1 million animals in our deer herd. We also have significant agricultural damage by deer in my district, a fact we can't ignore. If deer are harvested due to depredation, KDFWR has been successful in taking refrigerated trailers for those deer which have then been donated to Hunters for the Hungry, rather than wasted.

4. Some hunters have proposed expanding a early season (Early Youth & Early MZ) from 2 days to 9 with adult hunters being able to use pistols, slugs, & straight wall cartridges as well as archery & MZ in order to create more opportunity for youth & for mentors to hunt at the same time as youth. We have tons of deer so that would in no way hurt the resource.

The KDFWR Commission, of which I am a part, will almost certainly expand the Surveillance Zone to include Ballard Co & the 2 counties next door, for a total of 8 Surveillance Zone Counties, with the same restrictions as the original 5 SZ counties. Our goal is to slow CWD. We are well aware that eradication is unlikely, although that apparently did happen in NY. We know that the impact of CWD isn't catastrophic due to the up to two year time between a deer becoming infected & becoming sick. (We know EHD kills many more deer & much faster than CWD.) We also have to take into consideration the impact of CWD on people. Outfitters, guides, land owners, processors, and others who make their living from deer hunting have asked that we try to contain CWD down here in the far western part of the state.

Now here is where I need your help. Obviously, this is a controversial & complex issue. If you have a good understanding of CWD and it's social implications, I would welcome any advice of suggestion you might have. Please only comment if you're trying to help. I've already heard all the noise that CWD is not real, It's a hoax, nothing can be done, money grab, government conspiracy theory, etc. All 9 members of our Commission are decent men who grew up hunting & fishing. We all serve without a salary or any perks whatsoever. We were all appointed by the Governor but I've never met him & certainly never contributed to him. He's a city guy & hunting, fishing, & conservation aren't even on his radar screen. Finally, KY has received no huge grants to study CWD because we haven't had it until just this deer season.

I believe most people that hunt & fish have pretty good common sense. My only desire is to see hunters get the the first chance to manage this problem.

Thanks
Kill it before it spreads. Don't eat a CWD infected animal. I hope deer are not catching it from the elk that have been repopulated in the region. Otherwise it'll have to run its course.
 

Headhunter

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Kill it before it spreads. Don't eat a CWD infected animal. I hope deer are not catching it from the elk that have been repopulated in the region. Otherwise it'll have to run its course.
Since coyotes, hawks, buzzards, and eagles can spread the disease it will run its course no matter what. When I went to a "CWD" meeting the TWRA held, the biologist stated that coyotes and buzzards could spread the disease through their feces after eating from a CWD positive deer.

What is crazy is I asked him after the meeting, if that was true, what about hawks and eagles spreading the disease the same way. He replied, "hawks and eagles can't spread the disease, it does not work that way". I disagree. Hawks and eagles can spread the disease the same way. If they can't spread the disease, why isn't someone studying why?
 

mike243

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east tn
Kill it before it spreads. Don't eat a CWD infected animal. I hope deer are not catching it from the elk that have been repopulated in the region. Otherwise it'll have to run its course.
Read some history on the elk restoration, they were under quarantine and also tested for several diseases, the crap is on the other end of the state and hope it stays there. There is testing that goes on over here also. I suspect every elk killed or found dead has been tested.
 

fairchaser

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This is super interesting data, because the assumption is that CWD was around for a while before we knew about it.

This data would seem to indicate that was not the case.
I disagree! There was a 15% rate on bucks once they figured out we had it. It was likely around or years before that starting with one or two animals then climbing to a small percentage of the population. Once it got a foothold it would starting increasing exponentially. But it takes years to get to where it is now.
 

DeerCamp

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I disagree! There was a 15% rate on bucks once they figured out we had it. It was likely around or years before that starting with one or two animals then climbing to a small percentage of the population. Once it got a foothold it would starting increasing exponentially. But it takes years to get to where it is now.
Statistically, it should be possible to estimate backwards.
 

Headhunter

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Read some history on the elk restoration, they were under quarantine and also tested for several diseases, the crap is on the other end of the state and hope it stays there. There is testing that goes on over here also. I suspect every elk killed or found dead has been tested.
With all the deer that were killed in west Tennessee by East Tennessee hunters (which is perfectly fine) but no one knows how many have already transported to east Tennessee and disposed of there. I would not be surprised if they are still being transported. And since buzzards, eagles, hawks and coyotes can transmit it, it is just a matter of time before it is everywhere.
 

DeerCamp

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I disagree! There was a 15% rate on bucks once they figured out we had it. It was likely around or years before that starting with one or two animals then climbing to a small percentage of the population. Once it got a foothold it would starting increasing exponentially. But it takes years to get to where it is now.
Alright, I did the math using exponential regression for Mature Bucks on the graph on the previous page.

You can't really estimate back to "0" because it doesnt have a natural logarithm, but we can estimate back to below 1%.

Based solely on the current growth rates known, I estimate that the time period of introduction of CWD in Tennessee was 2001-2003.

As you can see, this function also estimates a near 100% "infection" rate by 2032 in the region the data was from.

It also estimates the prevalence will be >50% in 2028.

1708535520668.png
 

ROB

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sir i wish you were in charge of the TWRA! i really dont know the answer to your question but this is how any wildlife commissioner or agent should talk to the public!!! if your ever interested in running the TWRA, you have my vote!!
I am not a wildlife biologist or a biologist of any kind for that matter. I did grow up hunting & fishing & have a ton of pals who also grew up that way. Most of them have good common sense & I rely on them for advice all the time. Their advice is usually spot on. That is why I wanted to ask you all for advice. You all care about deer & deer hunting or you wouldn't be on TNDeer. You've seen what's worked & what hasn't. And most of you don't have a dog in the fight regarding CWD in KY so you can be objective. I greatly appreciate everyone's input!
 

ROB

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Are there any numbers (I am sure they won't be correct) but maybe a guess, how many deer have been killed and tested for CWD? Of ALL those deer how many tested positive for CWD? If a high percentage tested positive, then maybe there is a reason to kill "as many" deer as possible.

I have heard of all the deer tested, a really low percentage has tested positive, if that is true, what a waste of time to just kill so many deer for no reason.
KDFWR has tested over 40,000 deer & elk for CWD. So far, the only positive test was in the buck harvested in Ballard Co during this past year's modern gun season.
 

ROB

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Kill it before it spreads. Don't eat a CWD infected animal. I hope deer are not catching it from the elk that have been repopulated in the region. Otherwise it'll have to run its course.
The one positive case was in far northwestern KY. The elk are all in far eastern KY, so many miles away. However, elk outfitters & guides are begging the KDFWR to try to contain CWD, if possible, or at least slow it down. I'd like to help them, if I can.
 

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