A word on the TWRA Whistleblower Claims

DeerCamp

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I made a few comments relating to the whistleblower reprisal lawsuit in another thread. If you didn't read them, I strongly encourage you to read this post. I'll try to keep it brief.

I want to make clear that this is not a bash TWRA post. But I also want to point out that I have been involved in laboratory testing for 20 years. I've performed every kind of testing they are using, and I have also managed a pharmaceutical laboratory. A lot is on the line for all of us here.

Key Points:
  • For the first 3 years of testing after the CWD program was initiated, TWRA sent every sample for confirmatory testing. We saw no crazy outliers and the data made sense.
  • In 2021, there was an ELISA positive result for a Crockett county deer. The confirmatory was negative. This resulted in no action for Crockett.
  • Shortly after this, TWRA stops sending results for confirmatory testing due to costs.
  • Later in 2021, the rate of positives results begins to increase, but the increases are largely coming from one specific lab (Big red flag) *According to Kelly*
Now here is where the common sense part comes in.
  • Dyer, Weakley, Henry, Gibson and Henderson County all receive positive results in a relatively short time frame around 2021/2022 season.
  • None of these results reportedly received confirmatory testing.
  • As a result, CWD appears to be expanding rapidly.
But wait, there is a problem. Look at this most recent map of CWD positives:

Notice how the outliers are in purple? This is because each year is a different color. Purple is 2021.

1703015482711.png


In order for this to be true, you need to believe a couple things:
  • We happened to find several evidently rare outlier positives by chance, all around the same time frame
  • That these outliers are 40-50 miles away from the nearest positives known at that time
  • That in the 2 seasons since those tests, we have found no subsequent positives near these, or in the areas in between them despite an increase in overall testing.
    • That includes almost 700 tests in Henry County this year ALONE
  • That these are valid positives even though no confirmatories were done, despite another known false positive in Crockett county around the same time period occurring.
  • That James Kelly is lying when he said they eventually sent these positives for confirmatory testing, and they were negative but they didn't tell anyone.
I'm not saying CWD isn't real, or that is isn't spreading. I also am not saying that TWRA is lying.

I'm saying that this type of random, solitary spread over large distances DOES NOT HAPPEN IN THE WILD. That's not how diseases spread. Deer don't get on airplanes. Look at the spread in other states - it generally has been gradual and progressive.

If these were valid positives, we likely would have found others in and around them with the volume of testing (thousands of deer tested per year from these counties). But that hasn't happened.

I hope we get to the bottom of this. It is my belief at this time that there is reason to suspect that these outlier screening results might not actually be positive.
 

slabhead

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Last year they declared Wayne county a CWD watch zone...this was because a positive case was found on the Wayne County/Alabama line, but as I understand it was not in TN, it was in AL.

This year around Thanksgiving we are notified in Lewis County that a deer has tested positive for CWD in the northern part on the Lewis/Hickman county line. I'm wondering why they didn't place Hickman in a watch zone.

I'm not advocating for this, it's just an observation. Seems inconsistent to me.
 

backyardtndeer

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Deer don't get on airplanes. Look at the spread in other states
If course not, but again, how do you explain the outliers in Alabama and Kentucky? Do they have the same protocol as Tennessee? Are they doing confirmatory testing? I hope that it is contained to the areas in southwest Tennessee, but some people I have talked with have said it has been in this state since well before the first positive test. They just weren't looking for it until then. It was the positives in Mississippi near the state line that prompted this state to start testing.

As with anything in science though, the results are only as good as those collecting the data, or in this case those testing the samples. Man made errors happen, science is very often flawed, sometimes even intentionally....
 

DeerCamp

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If course not, but again, how do you explain the outliers in Alabama and Kentucky? Do they have the same protocol as Tennessee? Are they doing confirmatory testing? I hope that it is contained to the areas in southwest Tennessee, but some people I have talked with have said it has been in this state since well before the first positive test. They just weren't looking for it until then. It was the positives in Mississippi near the state line that prompted this state to start testing.

As with anything in science though, the results are only as good as those collecting the data, or in this case those testing the samples. Man made errors happen, science is very often flawed, sometimes even intentionally....
I don't have an explanation for Kentucky. There are numerous possibilities ranging from "hunter lied about where he killed it"(several documented cases of this) to "deer was sick enough that it walked 100 miles in a delirium".

No clue. But in this case we have 2 key details. One, a whistle-blower who most certainly was in the know says they aren't valid, and the statistical improbability that we would find a bunch randomly all at once and then none since.
 

DeerCamp

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If course not, but again, how do you explain the outliers in Alabama and Kentucky? Do they have the same protocol as Tennessee? Are they doing confirmatory testing? I hope that it is contained to the areas in southwest Tennessee, but some people I have talked with have said it has been in this state since well before the first positive test. They just weren't looking for it until then. It was the positives in Mississippi near the state line that prompted this state to start testing.

As with anything in science though, the results are only as good as those collecting the data, or in this case those testing the samples. Man made errors happen, science is very often flawed, sometimes even intentionally....
Henry County has submitted over 700 samples for testing.... this year alone.

If CWD were prevalent throughout the state, we would know by now. Particularly if that county is in fact a CWD county.
 

Andy S.

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I hope we get to the bottom of this. It is my belief at this time that there is reason to suspect that these outlier screening results might not actually be positive.
I hope you are correct about outliers as I would LOVE to think/believe we are working to slow the spread to some degree. I have had some of the same thoughts of you about mishandling samples, QA/QC, etc and the outliers, as well as the likelihood or not of them "sparking" that far off in the distance. With that said, and knowing we have a 2023 "spark" positive that is nearly as far "out there" in Hickman/Lewis (east of TN River), what are your thoughts on it, ASSUMING due diligence was taken, confirmatory second test took place, and it is indeed a true positive?
 

DeerCamp

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I hope you are correct about outliers as I would LOVE to think/believe we are working to slow the spread to some degree. I have had some of the same thoughts of you about mishandling samples, QA/QC, etc and the outliers, as well as the likelihood or not of them "sparking" that far off in the distance. With that said, and knowing we have a 2023 "spark" positive that is nearly as far "out there" in Hickman/Lewis (east of TN River), what are your thoughts on it, ASSUMING due diligence was taken, confirmatory second test took place, and it is indeed a true positive?
I don't know if that result received a confirmatory or not.

I do know the cwd zone in Alabama is directly south of there.
 

Buzzard Breath

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I hope you are correct about outliers as I would LOVE to think/believe we are working to slow the spread to some degree. I have had some of the same thoughts of you about mishandling samples, QA/QC, etc and the outliers, as well as the likelihood or not of them "sparking" that far off in the distance. With that said, and knowing we have a 2023 "spark" positive that is nearly as far "out there" in Hickman/Lewis (east of TN River), what are your thoughts on it, ASSUMING due diligence was taken, confirmatory second test took place, and it is indeed a true positive?
I hunt both Lewis and Hickman Counties, so I've looked into this and have my own theory. The dot on the CWD map is showing that's its either from Beaver Dam Creek WMA or next to it. We all know WMA access areas are dumping grounds for deer carcasses and have been for years. I think that there has been enough CWD positive carcasses dumped there that it has led to the spread of the disease. It's close enough to the hot zones for hunters to have easily brought whole deer home to process and disposed of the remnants on the WMA.
 

BSK

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, but some people I have talked with have said it has been in this state since well before the first positive test. They just weren't looking for it until then.
Actually, when CWD first showed up in the Southeast, the TWRA tested many, many deer. It was in the thousands. No positives. I do think CWD first started in the current hot zone and spread outward from there. I have real questions about some of these outliers though.
 

backyardtndeer

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Actually, when CWD first showed up in the Southeast, the TWRA tested many, many deer. It was in the thousands. No positives. I do think CWD first started in the current hot zone and spread outward from there. I have real questions about some of these outliers though.
Says here they started testing in 2018, but whatever https://www.tennessean.com/story/sp...ic-wasting-disease-tennessee-deer/2639657001/

Little better article here https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/deer-biologist-accuses-tennessee-wildlife-002939202.html
 

backyardtndeer

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That is incorrect. They ran a big test over a year or two back when Daryl was Head Biologist. That was back in the early 2000s.
So they were actually testing deer before they acknowledged they were testing deer? The second article I linked says that they were looking for it was early as 2002, but didn't say they were testing for it. Kind of interesting, because what you say goes in line with some of the conspiracies I have heard about the state imposing liberal limits. I heard from a couple different people back in 2019 that the intentions of the liberal limits going back to the early 2000's was to kill off as many as possible to slow the potential for spreading. Of course those same people believe cwd was already here then.

I don't know, I am not a scientist or an expert, but I can read. It doesn't take a genius to know that this situation and the way the state has handled it has been pretty messed up. They really do have a lot of explaining that needs to be done.
 

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