I agree with all you have written on this. As a side note if I remember correctly SCN was TWRA and he knows them better than us. He warns all of us to watch out!
TWRA seeks input on Changes to seasons
- Thread starter Methane
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Evidently a waste of time
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
oldmanelrod said:
Why do we need a NOV-DEC archery only season when archery can already be used in gun season. Watch out for gun season and antlerless limit changes!
I suspect someone or many are getting some money "under the table" for promoting this within TWRA. I say this in the contest of the dwaining interest in archery hunting, as there are fewer bowhunters now than in decades. There are also currently many more "archery only" opportunities than EVER before in TN.
There is a growing opportunity of "archery only" urban deer hunting.
There is a growing opportunity of "archery only" WMAs and portions of WMAs.
Yet fewer archery hunters. Go figure.
Thinking back 2 & 3 decades ago, we had many more avid bowhunters in TN.
But back then, there were far fewer "archery only" opportunities than now.
Just as a few examples, Oak Ridge WMA has huge areas "archery only".
The #1 desired-to-hunt WMA in TN is entirely "archery only".
Many WMAs have "safety zones" and smaller areas designated "archery only".
Never mind that one of the longest standing methods of gaining hunting access to private lands where the owners didn't allow any hunting, was simply to say,
"I only bowhunt, so you need not worry about bullets flying, and I'm just wanting to help you control the deer population."
For many saying this, it has been mostly a lie about "controlling the deer population", but this lie seems give lots of trophy buck hunters access to kill those bucks. As most understand, deer populations are controlled by doe harvests, yet many "celebrity" hunters are pursuing trophy bucks under the guise of "controlling" the deer population.
As to those areas needing deer populations reduced, firearms are much more efficient, and archery should only be mandated for safety concerns?
Why do we need a NOV-DEC archery only season when archery can already be used in gun season. Watch out for gun season and antlerless limit changes!
x Many
I suspect someone or many are getting some money "under the table" for promoting this within TWRA. I say this in the contest of the dwaining interest in archery hunting, as there are fewer bowhunters now than in decades. There are also currently many more "archery only" opportunities than EVER before in TN.
There is a growing opportunity of "archery only" urban deer hunting.
There is a growing opportunity of "archery only" WMAs and portions of WMAs.
Yet fewer archery hunters. Go figure.
Thinking back 2 & 3 decades ago, we had many more avid bowhunters in TN.
But back then, there were far fewer "archery only" opportunities than now.
Just as a few examples, Oak Ridge WMA has huge areas "archery only".
The #1 desired-to-hunt WMA in TN is entirely "archery only".
Many WMAs have "safety zones" and smaller areas designated "archery only".
Never mind that one of the longest standing methods of gaining hunting access to private lands where the owners didn't allow any hunting, was simply to say,
"I only bowhunt, so you need not worry about bullets flying, and I'm just wanting to help you control the deer population."
For many saying this, it has been mostly a lie about "controlling the deer population", but this lie seems give lots of trophy buck hunters access to kill those bucks. As most understand, deer populations are controlled by doe harvests, yet many "celebrity" hunters are pursuing trophy bucks under the guise of "controlling" the deer population.
As to those areas needing deer populations reduced, firearms are much more efficient, and archery should only be mandated for safety concerns?
I have always felt our gun season is too long. Counting muzzle loader season we can hunt with a gun for 2 to 3 months or longer depending on the unit you are in. That is ridiculously long. In my opinion, that is the only change we need. Leave limits alone. Most hunters do not kill a limit anyway. Just my opinion based on what I see in the area I hunt.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
TWRA needs to work better on NOT pitting one group of hunters against another.
This "archery only" idea replacing a current ANY weapon season, reeks of the same "divide & conquer" mentality democrat politicians use to empower themselves at the expense of those they purportedly represent.
The TWRA regs are already way too complicated & confusing.
Any mid-season "back & forth" regarding which tools are legal only adds to the bureaucracy.
The "statewide" current archery, followed by archery-muzzleloader, followed by archery-muzzleloader-modern rifle has been ingrained and is more easily understood (especially by new & less avid hunters).
This "archery only" idea replacing a current ANY weapon season, reeks of the same "divide & conquer" mentality democrat politicians use to empower themselves at the expense of those they purportedly represent.
The TWRA regs are already way too complicated & confusing.
Any mid-season "back & forth" regarding which tools are legal only adds to the bureaucracy.
The "statewide" current archery, followed by archery-muzzleloader, followed by archery-muzzleloader-modern rifle has been ingrained and is more easily understood (especially by new & less avid hunters).
You disqualified your only complain, no biological reason to take opportunities away from people who only get to hunt 1 day a week anyways when most aren't killing a limit
No, not a waste of time. It shows that Your definition of "meaningful" is different than mine. 1500 bucks over an entire unit isn't as significant to me as it is to you. In my opinion the deer population in these counties is higher than it's been in a LONG time and we're reaping the benefits (which are more pronounced when the weather is favorable on key days.)
A great fawn recruitment is realized a couple of years down the road in both antlered and antlerless harvest, which is what we're both seeing.
My point is let's not take away hunting opportunities from others when the herd is thriving. I think you would agree at least partially as you don't seem thrilled about taking a week out of muzzleloader season and a week (or more) out of rifle season.
I see the state's role as managing for giving hunters the opportunities the herd can support biologically, not accommodating special interest groups.
You kill at least five bucks for every one I kill, probably more. The herd's in great shape and I think those opportunities should be yours. Enjoy it before someone who isn't having success feels that you are the reason why and is able to convince a politician to take it away from you.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
I won't disagree with this.
But if any change were made, simply close the gun season sooner, without any back-end "special privileges" if you want to use a particular tool.
I would be fine with the modern rifle season closing annually on December 31st.
This could actually increase the opportunities for a variety of other hunting, much of which has been proven to better encourage a lifetime hunter mentality among youth and beginning hunters of any age.
Agree, but at the same time, keep in mind there are more hunters than you think who are interested in hunting game other than just deer. TWRA's focus should not be totally on deer hunters, and perhaps needs to be balanced better against the conflicts created between small-game & waterfowl hunters anytime deer season is open.
It's all about the balance.
Most lifetime hunters were created with a good balance of hunting lots of different critters.
Not saying it doesn't happen to some who start only with deer, and never hunt anything but deer, but look at how many, particularly youth, are dragged out on a January "juvenile" hunt, never to want to go hunting again.
And, yes, I know there are youth hunters who love the late-season juvenile opportunity.
Many of these would also enjoy just spending time with their mentors, perhaps hunting some other kind of game, too.
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I'd rather see it go thru January.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
To their defense, TWRA does have a daunting task in trying to please everyone afield.
Submitted
TN Larry
Well-Known Member
I was curious and kind of excited to see what they had to offer. However, I was super disappointed when watching the live feed. All you hear is focus group this and focus group that. I filled out the survey for both deer and turkey but made a point to say make decisions based on biological answers.
Why are they asking a "focus group" to make decisions? How do they represent the hunters of the state? How does the commission feel about this? I know the commission was curious to hear the agency's plan in the last season setting meeting. However, in my opinion, they are going in circles with no real plan.
My biggest gripe overall with their new plan is considering splitting the gun season up. It has no merit and not going to present another opening day. Most people only hunt opening weekend and Thanksgiving weekend anyways. Taking these days away will affect people not being in the woods during their rut timing with a rifle.
It was asked on here who the focus group is. It is talked about around the 8.5 minute mark in the link below.
Why are they asking a "focus group" to make decisions? How do they represent the hunters of the state? How does the commission feel about this? I know the commission was curious to hear the agency's plan in the last season setting meeting. However, in my opinion, they are going in circles with no real plan.
My biggest gripe overall with their new plan is considering splitting the gun season up. It has no merit and not going to present another opening day. Most people only hunt opening weekend and Thanksgiving weekend anyways. Taking these days away will affect people not being in the woods during their rut timing with a rifle.
It was asked on here who the focus group is. It is talked about around the 8.5 minute mark in the link below.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Does this imply a lack of good leadership?
That's what I usually find the case when everything boils down to too much "group think".
TN Larry
Well-Known Member
Good point.
I'm not disagreeing that other inputs shouldn't be taken into account. However, that's all I heard was focus group. I would have liked to have heard more biological data and ideas presented with some focus group input. The way I took it was the focus group was driving the bus. Maybe I took it the wrong way and hope I did, but that's what I heard.
I was excited more so on the turkey plan but didn't get much. Maybe it's just because our turkey coordinator seems to always deliver a dry message. He seems like a good guy but hard for me to buy what's he's selling. Sorry, not sorry. Lol.
DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
So very true.....impossible task actually.
That was one of my take-aways from watching the video too.
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Statistically speaking, a 20% increase in harvests as compared to statewide trend is actually pretty significant if it continues. IF it continues, and If you assume a bucks lifespan is 3 years on average (most get to 2, not many get to 4). Some napkin math shows you could reduce the year over year buck population by 40% in just 3 years.
That said, I'm not advocating for a 1 buck limit. You know that. 2 is a good number and I wouldn't gripe about 3.
It's the unlimited number of earn a bucks in a CWD county that doesn't actually have CWD that I worry about.
Countywide might be ok, but local populations can be impacted.
I'm not interested in dictating how anyone else punches a tag, but I don't think its a smart management practice to give any individual hunter the ability to impact localized deer herds.
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I don't really see a huge advantage to shortening the season if most hunters don't kill their limits.
The only advantage to shortening the season is I'll get more chores done.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
The real advantage is three-fold:
1) Allows for more focus on other types of hunting, particularly in reducing conflicts between small-game/waterfowl & deer hunters.
One reason we deer hunters often don't see this so much, is simply because so many small game hunters have stopped hunting to avoid these conflicts. Many more simply do less hunting. IMO, the small-game hunters have made more concessions to the deer hunters than the deer hunters have made to the small-game hunters.
And this is not just about season dates, as anyone can point out that squirrel season is the longest game season in TN. But why did so many hunters stop squirrel hunting? It was once at type of hunting that had more participation than any other, probably until the early 1970's.
And, until about the early 1970's, statewide rabbit hunting participation was 2nd only to squirrel hunting. Why did hunters stop rabbit hunting?
2) With above, comes more potential for helping to create lifetime hunters instead of just people who have gone deer hunting.
3) Deer herd health gets enhanced, via less late-season stress when the deer need to be more focused on feeding than escaping hunters. Another way herd health is enhanced (by annual season ending a bit earlier) is the average dates of doe harvest become a little earlier, leaving more food resources to the surviving deer.
I think the biggest advantage would be less pressure and stress on the deer. No data to back this, just my opinion.
