A word on the TWRA Whistleblower Claims

[scn]

Please point out some more. $150,00 for hunters for the hungry isn't really funding the agency.

The bottom line is that General fund appropriations are not a significant funding source for TWRA.

But, you already know that.

 

[Popcorn]

And there are lots of others. But let's move on.

Yes lets move on!

Y'all are beating a goat while the conversation is about horse!
Too many worries about monies flowing one way with NO care fore moneys flowing (DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY) the other. Hunting puts huge dollars into our economy including huge dollars from the insurance industry repairing autos from deer collision's and idiots crashing while avoiding a squirrel.
Yes there are things that need addressed, endless arguments here resolve nothing.

I personally would hate to imagine what wildlife / hunting in Tennessee would be like were it not for TWRA!

As a collective we need to educate each other and as responsible citizens we should look to resolve problems and improve direction, endlessly.

 

[kaizen leader]

Yes lets move on!

Y'all are beating a goat while the conversation is about horse!
Too many worries about monies flowing one way with NO care fore moneys flowing (DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY) the other. Hunting puts huge dollars into our economy including huge dollars from the insurance industry repairing autos from deer collision's and idiots crashing while avoiding a squirrel.
Yes there are things that need addressed, endless arguments here resolve nothing.

I personally would hate to imagine what wildlife / hunting in Tennessee would be like were it not for TWRA!

As a collective we need to educate each other and as responsible citizens we should look to resolve problems and improve direction, endlessly.

A sensible guy. I like a cup is half full person. Thanks. Good luck hunting and fishing my friend.

 

[budro2]

I've heard this before and I know several agree that its about the money and certainly anytime the government is involved "the money" comes into the conversation.

But in the case of CWD....TWRA is paying for all the testing and listening to several folks on here...the guidelines are not necessarily drawing more people towards hunting but pushing more folks away....and for sure if they achieve their goal and reduce deer numbers greatly...you can bet over time less people will be hunting....all this combined would equal less income generated...not more?
But maybe I'm missing something?

That's too simple an explanation for some to understand . The testing is a drain on resources and takes funds away from all other species and the worst part is hunter participation was already shrinking and cwd will/has accelerated this
Which means even less funding.

This disease is absolutely a serious issue and may or can be the demise of hunting in the future and result in a less need for an agency such as twra

Those that think it's all about the money , thinking it is paddings someone's pockets are just in denial .

 

[DeerCamp]

That's too simple an explanation for some to understand . The testing is a drain on resources and takes funds away from all other species and the worst part is hunter participation was already shrinking and cwd will/has accelerated this
Which means even less funding.

This disease is absolutely a serious issue and may or can be the demise of hunting in the future and result in a less need for an agency such as twra

Those that think it's all about the money , thinking it is paddings someone's pockets are just in denial .

I think it is about money, but not in the way you think.

I think they stopped confirmatory testing because it was too expensive, and then made a mistake in declaring several counties CWD positive that possibly are not.

And then when presented with a difficult decision (one that would open them up to litigation and criticism) chose not to do the right thing and admit the mistake and reverse course.

That, in my opinion, is the most likely explanation.

@scn if I'm off base here, please tell me

 

[Blockhouse]

The one thing I get from this is Twra should take a hard look at the testing procedure and controls to avoid contamination or false positives before posting results. I hunt the center of this and haven't seen a zombie deer. Occasional dead deer yes but that is nature - nothing out of the ordinary. IMO the count is over stated. CWD exists in nature and always will and nature will correct for it.

 

[DeerCamp]

The one thing I get from this is Twra should take a hard look at the testing procedure and controls to avoid contamination or false positives before posting results. I hunt the center of this and haven't seen a zombie deer. Occasional dead deer yes but that is nature - nothing out of the ordinary. IMO the count is over stated. CWD exists in nature and always will and nature will correct for it.

That's not really how testing works. They are contracting with certified 3rd party labs (who are CLIA certified).

I don't know that TWRA would have the authority to audit those labs. It sounds like they asked for the raw data from the lab in question, and the results of that were suspicious.

 

[Ski]

I think it is about money, but not in the way you think.

I think they stopped confirmatory testing because it was too expensive, and then made a mistake in declaring several counties CWD positive that possibly are not.

And then when presented with a difficult decision (one that would open them up to litigation and criticism) chose not to do the right thing and admit the mistake and reverse course.

That, in my opinion, is the most likely explanation.

@scn if I'm off base here, please tell me

Winner winner chicken dinner. I believe that right there is exactly what happened. Bad decisions leading to more bad decisions. No conspiracy just poor judgement and CYA attempts. IMO the responsible individual(s) and those who knowingly allowed it should be reprimanded but not the entire organization. Correct the wrong and move on.

 

[killingtime 41]

I heard that there were 4 positives in East Tennessee.

First I've heard of that. Depending on how far east. We might as well stop hunting cause the population was never that great to start with. Where in east Tn

 

[killingtime 41]

Never mind I read false positives

 

[Strict]

Where does CWD money come from? Well, the Feds through the Pittman-Robertson and Dingell-Johnson acts. This is money they would normally not get unless an approved program was needed, like battling CWD.

Federal Funding Approved to Battle Chronic Wasting Disease

The Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2023, will aid CWD research and management.

www.nrahlf.org

The article states $70 million per year every year(2022-2028) is allocated to fight CWD. That's over $400 million. How is the money allocated? Like Covid money that incentivized and rewarded hospitals for each Covid case? How did that work out? If entities have a financial incentive to find a condition, don't be surprised if they find that condition.

 

[budro2]

I think it is about money, but not in the way you think.

I think they stopped confirmatory testing because it was too expensive, and then made a mistake in declaring several counties CWD positive that possibly are not.

And then when presented with a difficult decision (one that would open them up to litigation and criticism) chose not to do the right thing and admit the mistake and reverse course.

That, in my opinion, is the most likely explanation.

@scn if I'm off base here, please tell me

My opinion would be just an opinion ,also without any factual basis .
When the suit first became public I asked someone what was previously directly involved if it had merit and his reply was he knew some about the situation ,that this termination should have happened several years ago but like most state employees it's more diff to terminate one than most of us think. He said the guy had an history or deceit and had been untruthful before but I didn't enquire about the specifics .
were their some false positives that resulted in more counties ? That is possible with the outliers but the out of state positives have been the same way , no diff that Alabama and now ky with a single case in ballard co .

He told me a few years back what the testing was costing and it was incredible expensive I think over 100 per deer and it was def draining resources .

Every state this has effected have been thru 3 stages with hunters .
All want to help at first
Then denial stage
Then reality

I just hope a cure can be found and that it never crosses over

I'd like to see this sport continue for my grand children

 

[rodeojoe]

I made a few comments relating to the whistleblower reprisal lawsuit in another thread. If you didn't read them, I strongly encourage you to read this post. I'll try to keep it brief.

I want to make clear that this is not a bash TWRA post. But I also want to point out that I have been involved in laboratory testing for 20 years. I've performed every kind of testing they are using, and I have also managed a pharmaceutical laboratory. A lot is on the line for all of us here.

Key Points:

• For the first 3 years of testing after the CWD program was initiated, TWRA sent every sample for confirmatory testing. We saw no crazy outliers and the data made sense.
• In 2021, there was an ELISA positive result for a Crockett county deer. The confirmatory was negative. This resulted in no action for Crockett.
• Shortly after this, TWRA stops sending results for confirmatory testing due to costs.
• Later in 2021, the rate of positives results begins to increase, but the increases are largely coming from one specific lab (Big red flag) *According to Kelly*

Now here is where the common sense part comes in.

• Dyer, Weakley, Henry, Gibson and Henderson County all receive positive results in a relatively short time frame around 2021/2022 season.
• None of these results reportedly received confirmatory testing.
• As a result, CWD appears to be expanding rapidly.

But wait, there is a problem. Look at this most recent map of CWD positives:

Notice how the outliers are in purple? This is because each year is a different color. Purple is 2021.

View attachment 208216

In order for this to be true, you need to believe a couple things:

• We happened to find several evidently rare outlier positives by chance, all around the same time frame
• That these outliers are 40-50 miles away from the nearest positives known at that time
• That in the 2 seasons since those tests, we have found no subsequent positives near these, or in the areas in between them despite an increase in overall testing.
  • That includes almost 700 tests in Henry County this year ALONE
• That these are valid positives even though no confirmatories were done, despite another known false positive in Crockett county around the same time period occurring.
• That James Kelly is lying when he said they eventually sent these positives for confirmatory testing, and they were negative but they didn't tell anyone.

I'm not saying CWD isn't real, or that is isn't spreading. I also am not saying that TWRA is lying.

I'm saying that this type of random, solitary spread over large distances DOES NOT HAPPEN IN THE WILD. That's not how diseases spread. Deer don't get on airplanes. Look at the spread in other states - it generally has been gradual and progressive.

If these were valid positives, we likely would have found others in and around them with the volume of testing (thousands of deer tested per year from these counties). But that hasn't happened.

I hope we get to the bottom of this. It is my belief at this time that there is reason to suspect that these outlier screening results might not actually be positive.

COVID graph?

 

[tdt5446]

Yes lets move on!

Y'all are beating a goat while the conversation is about horse!
Too many worries about monies flowing one way with NO care fore moneys flowing (DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY) the other. Hunting puts huge dollars into our economy including huge dollars from the insurance industry repairing autos from deer collision's and idiots crashing while avoiding a squirrel.
Yes there are things that need addressed, endless arguments here resolve nothing.

I personally would hate to imagine what wildlife / hunting in Tennessee would be like were it not for TWRA!

As a collective we need to educate each other and as responsible citizens we should look to resolve problems and improve direction, endlessly.

This is the best post, in my opinion, on this thread! Well done and well said! Thanks PC!

 

[J.A.F.O.]

This thread is wild y'all! I don't know anything scientifically speaking but I do know this.
My wife is from southeast Wyoming. She grew up eating game meat her whole childhood. So has her sister and parents. My father in law has been hunting there since the late 70's and said cwd was there in 81 even though the state says 85. It hit their local herds especially bad during that time but he continued to hunt and consume the meat. Fast forward a few years and he's as healthy as an ox. Her mother is an ultramarathon runner. We just received clean health bills and so have our kids. We all have consumed untold amounts of game meat. FWIW!!

Also,got me thinking. He's a Pudelpointer owner and they have to trial their dogs a lot which set off a bell in my head…..Doesn't Ames have a yearly field trial for dogs at the plantation every year??? Someone suggested earlier the prion possibly traveling via mud on trucks and utv's?? This rabbit hole could easily get deeper. It's not going anywhere so let's find out the best way to get ahead of it and cut its dang head off. Easier said than done of course but that's just my perspective.

Carry on my friends!

 

[gatodoc]

This thread is wild y'all! I don't know anything scientifically speaking but I do know this.
My wife is from southeast Wyoming. She grew up eating game meat her whole childhood. So has her sister and parents. My father in law has been hunting there since the late 70's and said cwd was there in 81 even though the state says 85. It hit their local herds especially bad during that time but he continued to hunt and consume the meat. Fast forward a few years and he's as healthy as an ox. Her mother is an ultramarathon runner. We just received clean health bills and so have our kids. We all have consumed untold amounts of game meat. FWIW!!

Also,got me thinking. He's a Pudelpointer owner and they have to trial their dogs a lot which set off a bell in my head…..Doesn't Ames have a yearly field trial for dogs at the plantation every year??? Someone suggested earlier the prion possibly traveling via mud on trucks and utv's?? This rabbit hole could easily get deeper. It's not going anywhere so let's find out the best way to get ahead of it and cut its dang head off. Easier said than done of course but that's just my perspective.

Carry on my friends!

Undoubtedly, cwd can be spread on animals feet, vehicle tires etc. CWD is going to be everywhere eventually. Attempts to slow the spread seem admirable, but are totally useless because it will eventually spread regardless.

Slaughtering the deer will solve nothing related to CWD. I'd stop all restrictions, test those that want testing and let it go.

 

[mike243]

Folks think there will be herd immunity, I say BS, no way to acquire immunity when the disease is 100% fatal.

 

[gatodoc]

Folks think there will be herd immunity, I say BS, no way to acquire immunity when the disease is 100% fatal.

nothing in nature is 100%….there will undoubtedly be some resistant deer. If this wasn't the case you'd never see mature sheep…

it appears to take several years to kill a deer. The main thing we're apt to see in the near future is fewer " mature" deer….I think that's already the case at my hunting grounds in Fayette co. I stooped counting the young bucks I've seen this year but very few older bucks on camera or in person

we've tested 6 deer so far this year and had 2 positives and they were what I thought was the youngest Buck and doe taken this year. Go figure.

im not sure I trust the testing results…

 

[Omega]

Folks think there will be herd immunity, I say BS, no way to acquire immunity when the disease is 100% fatal.

Deer don't have to have CWD to become immune, just be exposed to it and not get CWD. With Mad Cow, I seem to recall a study that possibly showed the people may have been genetically predisposed to get Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. Maybe a segment of the deer population is genetically predisposed to catch CWD.

 

[DeerCamp]

Deer don't have to have CWD to become immune, just be exposed to it and not get CWD. With Mad Cow, I seem to recall a study that possibly showed the people may have been genetically predisposed to get Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. Maybe a segment of the deer population is genetically predisposed to catch CWD.

There is certainly an interesting point, because you would expect that in a county with sufficiently high "infection" that essentially all deer would become positive over time.

That isn't happening. Even in captivity, the highest CWD prevalence was around 80%.

Maybe there is already some natural resistance.