TWRAs stance on why kill #'s are down

[ma.coleman]

Here's the November data on antlered kills-past through present with average monthly temp pulled out of Nashville. Colors by county - red=low, green=high.

Temp color blue=colder, red=warmer

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[Snake]

I believe there just aren't as many people hunting these days. Compare opening morning of muzzleloader to opening morning ten years ago. Ten years ago, there are a line of pick ups at the store at 4am getting biscuits and people hanging out at the check station etc... This year, I heard 4 shots opening morning, and none were really close. License prices have gone up, lease prices have gone up, the economy has not gone up. Many people are simply hanging it up. I hate to say it, but the sport we love is a dying sport. When I was a kid, practically every kid was involved in hunting. Now, very few kids are getting involved. I would be curious to see if hunter safety class participation is anywhere near what it was 10-15 years ago????

In Giles were I hunt mostly this is certainly true. In times past opening gun you had better have a reservation but now no bother plenty of rooms . I think it will be a trend from now on and I don't think the 2 buck limit had anything to do with the that . In years past you had better have a tag on your deer heading home but now I don't think they are as apt to even check , so I don't think alot of deer are even checked in especially bucks . As liberal as doe tags are why wouldn't you check one in but in the case of a buck ... maybe especially if you have already killed one !! My theory is just that but if you look at trends since the checking stations have disappeared with online check-in this gives one who might just not check out a buck an option . In the past you could actually get a ticket if you drove past a checking station without checking a deer in but now no problem . A buck I checked in with a game warden present didn't even scold me for not having the kill tag attached to the buck so that must not be the law now . IMO now it's easy not to check a buck in , just saying .

 

[TboneD]

Here's the November data on antlered kills-past through present with average monthly temp pulled out of Nashville. Colors by county - red=low, green=high.

Temp color blue=colder, red=warmer

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So by and large, the November rut kills happened whether we had typical November weather or not, two buck rule or not. What's significant is that the new buck limit seemed to really cut the harvest numbers back in our southern counties, which have later ruts. Makes sense.


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[Bobs8pt]

I didn't read every response so this may have been mentioned. But if I had to guess numbers are down due to the 2 buck limit. Last year folks shot there first 2 and then hunted for the big one. This year folks shot only 1 and now are hunting for the big one. The end of the season numbers will tell the whole story. As far as the antler less deer stats. I am sure a lot of small bucks are having there antlers knocked off to save a tag.

 

[darn2ten]

You can believe in cull bucks in a free ranging herd if you so wish. Put them in the same category as Bigfoot, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy.

Exactly what I was thinking

 

[darn2ten]

The number of antlerless bucks has increased 500%!! Bucks aren't being saved, they are getting their antlers nocked off by an eastwing hammer!!!!!

HH, he got his graph wrong, He came back and fixed it. Antler less buck are actually about 1/2 what they normally are. 4505 in 2014, and 2237 this year. Though I wouldn't doubt some of what your talking about takes place.

 

[mathews338]

To all the peeps that want to use every little piece of data they can find to support the 2 buck limit.

STOP!

Your making fools of yourself. NO DATA that you can collect at this point is going to show support for the 2 buck limit. NONE. Quit trying.

Its going to COLLECTIVE take data over SEVERAL YEARS to show one way or the other what effect the 2 buck limit is having on the herd.

This is getting ridiculous.

No one is promoting the two buck limit, certainly not me. Someone just posted the TWRAs response as to why kill #'s are down and we all agree it is not a good reason. then someone showed some data about the kill #'s from the TWRA site and unfortunately, the difference is less bucks being killed this year. I like analyzing data so I put up a graph and then someone asked for 5 years worth, so i did that too.

You're right it will take several years of data to see the effect or lack there of. That being said, the initial data shows that less bucks are being shot, and I can say from personal experience that I could have killed 2 different 1.5 yr old bucks on Priest and would have shot one with a 3rd buck tag, but since I only have 2 I passed both, because I know we have bigger bucks on mine and my brother's property, but the odds of me killing 2 in one season, would be low, so I would have burned a tag to A) kill a deer on opening morning, and B) put meat in the freezer, because IMO a buck tastes as good as a doe.

All that aside, whether you admit it or not the #'s thus far show glaringly that the # of bucks being killed or at least checked in is down. We've looked at weather data, and other factors, but i would say it is safe to assume that at least this year, that the limit reduction has had an impact on the kill #'s. That being said, I still disagree with the limit reduction as I feel the age dynamics in the herd were fine and there was no biological reason to lower the limit.

The two buck limit has had ZERO impact on me.

Ive shot two deer a button and a doe both during Archery. I always use MZ and early Rifle looking for big bucks. Nothing has changed. Once the rut is over I will burn whatever tags I have and then start focusing in on getting the cull bucks off my property by inviting other hunters out and having them zero in on getting rid of the deer I want gone. Ill just hunt does. It use to be that I had 3 tags to get that done. Now I only have two. Just means I get to invite more friends over. That's all.

No such thing as a cull buck so STOP using the term. The doe passes on antler genetics also, how do you know which does to shoot, lol. I talk to a ton of hunters everyday and from everything I am hearing the 2 buck limit is having a big impact. Zero for you though which is fine with me but some of your posts are getting old.

 

[mathews338]

Several reasons for the decline imo.

1. 2 buck limit

2. Warm weather, deer have not moved in daylight much. Some guys I run into say things like "it's hot and windy so I'm not going". I go no matter what because you never know but alot of guys I know won't even try it.

3. No acorns at all around here, most guys I know that only have big timber to hunt say they are not seeing many deer at all.

 

[Snake]

Several reasons for the decline imo.

1. 2 buck limit

2. Warm weather, deer have not moved in daylight much. Some guys I run into say things like "it's hot and windy so I'm not going". I go no matter what because you never know but alot of guys I know won't even try it.

3. No acorns at all around here, most guys I know that only have big timber to hunt say they are not seeing many deer at all.

I can agree but will add one 4. Bucks not being checked in .

 

[MarlinSlayer]

I bet the buck numbers will spike the last day of season. I for one tagged out this year and would still be hunting if it was three bucks. I now regret the big spike I took after weeks of frustration......only to kill a nice 8 the week later. I've never even seen a buck that I could shoot while hunting in previous years......so when the spike showed up, and I wanted some meat for the freezer.....I took him, thinking i'd be eating my other buck tag as I have been eating the tags for the last three years and they don't taste as good as venison.

 

[Roost 1]

I believe there just aren't as many people hunting these days. Compare opening morning of muzzleloader to opening morning ten years ago. Ten years ago, there are a line of pick ups at the store at 4am getting biscuits and people hanging out at the check station etc... This year, I heard 4 shots opening morning, and none were really close. License prices have gone up, lease prices have gone up, the economy has not gone up. Many people are simply hanging it up. I hate to say it, but the sport we love is a dying sport. When I was a kid, practically every kid was involved in hunting. Now, very few kids are getting involved. I would be curious to see if hunter safety class participation is anywhere near what it was 10-15 years ago????

In Giles were I hunt mostly this is certainly true. In times past opening gun you had better have a reservation but now no bother plenty of rooms . I think it will be a trend from now on and I don't think the 2 buck limit had anything to do with the that . In years past you had better have a tag on your deer heading home but now I don't think they are as apt to even check , so I don't think alot of deer are even checked in especially bucks . As liberal as doe tags are why wouldn't you check one in but in the case of a buck ... maybe especially if you have already killed one !! My theory is just that but if you look at trends since the checking stations have disappeared with online check-in this gives one who might just not check out a buck an option . In the past you could actually get a ticket if you drove past a checking station without checking a deer in but now no problem . A buck I checked in with a game warden present didn't even scold me for not having the kill tag attached to the buck so that must not be the law now . IMO now it's easy not to check a buck in , just saying .

 

[TheLBLman]

IMO now it's easy not to check a buck in , just saying .

IMO now it's more easy TO check a buck in than ever before , just saying.

 

[Boone 58]

I was alarmed at the absolute blatant use of long rifles in MZ season having counted more of those shots than MZ itself.....................so the blatant disregard of the law is obvious. I am hearing of a lot of guys just not checking in bucks at all..............look at wayne county vs Lawrence county on buck kill and it is several hundred in difference..............these two counties usually reflect very close on buck to doe kill ratios. There seems to be a calloused disrespect for checking bucks in now by some, and that is not going to help us achieve what a lesser buck kill total is intended to do. Reporting over kills of buck limits should see some uptick if honest hunters turn their poaching counterpart peers in. I doubt that will happen, we will see.

 

[Snake]

IMO now it's easy not to check a buck in , just saying .

IMO now it's more easy TO check a buck in than ever before , just saying.

Yes it is easier than times past to check them in legally but my point is that it is easier to keep from checking them in illegally . Game warden check points are a thing of the past simply because all someone has to say is I'm going to check it out when I get home , no proof that they are not . Most people I know were afraid to chance it in times past but I know it goes on now (fact) . Yes those who are going to do it will and those who will not won't but in times past most people didn't lock their doors either .

 

[PillsburyDoughboy]

Several reasons for the decline imo.

1. 2 buck limit

2. Warm weather, deer have not moved in daylight much. Some guys I run into say things like "it's hot and windy so I'm not going". I go no matter what because you never know but alot of guys I know won't even try it.

3. No acorns at all around here, most guys I know that only have big timber to hunt say they are not seeing many deer at all.

I can agree but will add one 4. Bucks not being checked in .

Probably spot on.

My son shot a doe a couple,of weeks ago and wound up giving the deer to a friend, when we pulled up in his driveway I asked had he checked it in, he said good call I had forgotten to, so he checked it in real quick even knowing the guy was going to butcher it right there on the spot and even though it was a doe we felt like the right thing to do was report it so the harvest numbers would be correct.

I suspect though way more deer go unreported because what has been mentioned here. That all one has to do is say they are going to check it in when they get home .


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[TheLBLman]

I believe all the concerns are legitimate, and for certain, some hunters are cheating other hunters by not checking in their kills. But this isn't something that just began with online/phone check-in (which was just a "procedural" change). In fact, violations may have happened to a relatively higher degree back in the 1970's and early 80's. There will always be some dishonest people around.

However, not being required to tag a kill immediately, that is a "procedural" change that may need revisiting. In the future TWRA "could" issue multiple sequentially numbered kill tags with each big game license/permit and go back to require all killed deer being immediately tagged before moving. Their reason for stopping this was in part because of people being allowed to kill multiple deer daily, but only being issued a single kill tag with their license.

Regardless, the trend data should remain good, and there are no new expected check-in "procedural" changes anticipated during the next few years. Going to phone & internet check-in was a change, but that change is already in the past (and we still have physical check-in stations). Mainly just more convenient than ever to check in a deer (and also more convenient to not).

There also appears to have been a long-term trend of more people taking their harvested deer to a commercial processor rather than doing it themselves. This trend may fluctuate a bit year to year, but longer term, I believe more are going to be using commercial processors. The commercial processors must record the deer's TWRA check-in number before accepting it. Same goes for a taxidermist.

But in view of some legitimate concerns, those cheating the system should have some concerns of their own. Not checking in a deer can result in some pretty stiff penalties and great inconveniences. In certain ways that didn't exist just a few years ago, TWRA now has the ability to catch these violators weeks, months, and even years after the fact.

 

[benellivol]

I have probably seen more deer this year than any other. I just didn't have an opportunity to fling an arrow in their direction. Muzzleloader was screwed up due to work, I didn't get to hunt much at all, but I did kill a doe.

I haven't seen as many deer on their feet with a rifle in hand, but that's normal for where I hunt.

 

[benellivol]

IMO now it's easy not to check a buck in , just saying .

IMO now it's more easy TO check a buck in than ever before , just saying.

Yes it is easier than times past to check them in legally but my point is that it is easier to keep from checking them in illegally . Game warden check points are a thing of the past simply because all someone has to say is I'm going to check it out when I get home , no proof that they are not . Most people I know were afraid to chance it in times past but I know it goes on now (fact) . Yes those who are going to do it will and those who will not won't but in times past most people didn't lock their doors either .

I check everything in via the app. I have killed a doe, quartered it up, put it in the freezer then go, oh crap I have to check it in the next day.

 

[MarlinSlayer]

I'm sure you meant "the next thing you did THAT day"

 

[TheLBLman]

I have killed a doe, quartered it up, put it in the freezer then go, oh crap I have to check it in.

But being the honest person you are, that deer STILL got checked in.