TWRA meeting today

[Omega]

I just made my arguments and made a couple of suggestions. It's basically like they say in real estate: "location, location" Why should "low Ag" counties that are basically only overpopulated in areas WHERE DEER ARE NOT HUNTED under the Unit L policy?

And why do you think Cheatham WMA was so slow to recover from EHD back when Unit L was created? You think putting it in Unit L might've had something to do with it? After the former manager and his biologist complained enough finally they took it out to protect the does but what about all the other public lands they in Unit L? Again, I'm referring to the same public folks from east TN drive to for the opportunity to kill does. But I'm done repeating myself other than to say tell me one other state that does this!

I really don't have a dog in the fight, because the policy would not affect me much if any even if they changed it to say only one a day or one of each per day. But every year the harvest numbers just don't seem to be that great, and we see more and more deer killed on the roads, so I can't imagine it's having a major impact on the herd overall. Now, if localized counties or WMAs are having herd issues, then maybe this can be brought up to the TWRA and the commission to address it.

 

[BSK]

The problem is the deer. They just won't spread themselves out! Stupid deer...

Deer will concentrate in one area and be almost nonexistent a couple of miles away. The state cannot micromanage on that scale. In addition, hunters on one property may have completely different harvest goals than the hunters on a neighboring property. The state can't manage at that level. And the worst thing the state could do would be to manage for the worst possible scenario. That would severely limit proper biologically sound management in many areas. The best the state can do is manage for the "middle ground," and I think they're doing a pretty good job of that.

Now I'm not going to argue that the 3 doe/per day limit is necessary. It is not. They could go with 5 does per year and few hunters would be limited in what they are currently taking. That said, there is little indication hunters are over-harvesting does in widespread areas. Since most counties are showing more bucks than does being killed, and there's no indication we're killing too many bucks, then more does could be killed than we are currently killing without doing harm to the overall resource.

 

[TboneD]

I really don't have a dog in the fight, because the policy would not affect me much if any even if they changed it to say only one a day or one of each per day. But every year the harvest numbers just don't seem to be that great, and we see more and more deer killed on the roads, so I can't imagine it's having a major impact on the herd overall. Now, if localized counties or WMAs are having herd issues, then maybe this can be brought up to the TWRA and the commission to address it.

Yes, there are too many deer here and there, especially where they can't be hunted, and I'm surprised more does aren't checked in. I suspect some folks that don't abide by the letter of the law think it doesn't matter given the policy. I think most folks are like me, though, and would rather hunt bucks than haul out and process multiple does. Maybe more would be killed if more processors participated with hunters for the hungry or maybe most already do. No clue but the TWRA and commission has had how many years now to modify Unit L for the better?

 

[DaveTN]

I didn't read through all the stuff about what Wardens make and how much of the fines go to the agency. But I will bet if you look at any LE Agency, whether it be a Police Department, Sheriff's department or TWRA, the court fines and tickets aren't 5% of the cost of running the agency.

 

[Biggun4214]

w

did any TWRA OFFICER not apply for the job or was it thrust upon them!!!! no pity party from me!! if on average $75000 a year salary is not enough. Find another line of work. sorry if you have to spend 2-3 hours a day as was previously mentioned doing your job!!

did any TWRA OFFICER not apply for the job or was it thrust upon them!!!! no pity party from me!! if on average $75000 a year salary is not enough. Find another line of work. sorry if you have to spend 2-3 hours a day as was previously mentioned doing your job!!

The real discussion wasn't about what officers make or court time. It started about all the money TWRA made on citations.
Also the average county Wildlife Officer isn't making $75K. If that's the average salary across the board then it includes sergeants, lieutenants, and captains. When the last pay plan was announced an officer with 8 years was making the same as an officer starting the academy.

 

[TboneD]

The problem is the deer. They just won't spread themselves out! Stupid deer...

Deer will concentrate in one area and be almost nonexistent a couple of miles away. The state cannot micromanage on that scale. In addition, hunters on one property may have completely different harvest goals than the hunters on a neighboring property. The state can't manage at that level. And the worst thing the state could do would be to manage for the worst possible scenario. That would severely limit proper biologically sound management in many areas. The best the state can do is manage for the "middle ground," and I think they're doing a pretty good job of that.

Now I'm not going to argue that the 3 doe/per day limit is necessary. It is not. They could go with 5 does per year and few hunters would be limited in what they are currently taking. That said, there is little indication hunters are over-harvesting does in widespread areas. Since most counties are showing more bucks than does being killed, and there's no indication we're killing too many bucks, then more does could be killed than we are currently killing without doing harm to the overall resource.

Is there an argument to support why they put public ground in Unit L?

 

[BSK]

Is there an argument to support why they put public ground in Unit L?

Honestly, that's an extremely valid criticism. I definitely would NOT have public lands under Unit L harvest regs. Too many hunters, too much harvest pressure. In Unit L counties, I would probably allow the same number of does per hunter as bucks, on public land.

 

[mike243]

As a lot of the WMA's are not patrolled full time have no gates to monitor hunters on leaving, no good way to prove the doe were shot on public or private when the hunter is on the road. Catch 22 on a lot of things.

 

[TboneD]

Honestly, that's an extremely valid criticism. I definitely would NOT have public lands under Unit L harvest regs. Too many hunters, too much harvest pressure. In Unit L counties, I would probably allow the same number of does per hunter as bucks, on public land.

Just common sense, right? And like I told Omega, how many years have they had to fix this? Like it's never come up before in a meeting.

The only public ground I know of that might be overpopulated, at least in our county, is Old Hickory Lock 5 Refuge south side of the river. Of course that's only because the well connected adjacent land owner wanted the refuge for himself and was successful at lobbying the commission to CLOSE it to ALL HUNTING. No surprise, after the Chattanooga times ran a story on it and enough stink was raised the commission reopened the (boat only access) south side of the refuge to juvenile only and I have no doubt it's underutilized to this day.

 

[BSK]

Just common sense, right? And like I told Omega, how many years have they had to fix this? Like it's never come up before in a meeting.

The only public ground I know of that might be overpopulated, at least in our county, is Old Hickory Lock 5 Refuge south side of the river. Of course that's only because the adjacent well connected land owner wanted the refuge for himself, so was successful at lobbying the commission to CLOSED it to ALL HUNTING. No surprise, after the Chattanooga times ran a story on it and enough stink was raised the commission reopened the (boat only access) south side of the refuge to juvenile only and I have no doubt it's underutilized to this day.

Imagine having a public land (Federal) neighbor where the managers were intentionally trying to kill all the deer. That was not helpful, as they were highly effective at it. Thankfully, they did away with those rules a couple of years ago and the deer population is finally bouncing back.

 

[DeerCamp]

Do they report the harvests? What county and how has that affected the total harvest numbers?

I have no reason to think that they didn't. I've only met them twice. They seemed like nice guys that just wanted to take a ton of Venison back home with them to store and give away.

I am pretty sure it's Gibson county, but it's spitting distance from Weakley County and part of the property may have even bled over.

How did it effect total harvest numbers? I guess it added 18. Lol.

 

[Jcalder]

w



The real discussion wasn't about what officers make or court time. It started about all the money TWRA made on citations.
Also the average county Wildlife Officer isn't making $75K. If that's the average salary across the board then it includes sergeants, lieutenants, and captains. When the last pay plan was announced an officer with 8 years was making the same as an officer starting the academy.

Are you saying they didn't correct the pay scale to reflect the guy with 8 years of service? I'm sure they have ranks as you've stated, but I'm not sure how they can rank up, but if you're an 8 year veteran, and haven't moved up in rank, it's probably not an agency issue and more of a you issue.

 

[scn]

Are you saying they didn't correct the pay scale to reflect the guy with 8 years of service? I'm sure they have ranks as you've stated, but I'm not sure how they can rank up, but if you're an 8 year veteran, and haven't moved up in rank, it's probably not an agency issue and more of a you issue.

It isn't quite that simple on the ranks. There are only a handful of the advanced positions available in each enforcement area, so advancement into those ranks is very limited. It isn't a time in grade/achievement deal like the military with somewhat automatic advancements if you are doing well with your job. TWRA has many outstanding wildlife officers that remain as a WO for their entire career.

 

[TX300mag]

I have no reason to think that they didn't. I've only met them twice. They seemed like nice guys that just wanted to take a ton of Venison back home with them to store and give away.

I am pretty sure it's Gibson county, but it's spitting distance from Weakley County and part of the property may have even bled over.

How did it effect total harvest numbers? I guess it added 18. Lol.

Glad they killed them and not the farmers.

 

[Lost Lake]

Glad they killed them and not the farmers.

That's right, and not left to rot.

 

[knightrider]

It isn't quite that simple on the ranks. There are only a handful of the advanced positions available in each enforcement area, so advancement into those ranks is very limited. It isn't a time in grade/achievement deal like the military with somewhat automatic advancements if you are doing well with your job. TWRA has many outstanding wildlife officers that remain as a WO for their entire career.

You beat me to it!!!

 

[Jcalder]

It isn't quite that simple on the ranks. There are only a handful of the advanced positions available in each enforcement area, so advancement into those ranks is very limited. It isn't a time in grade/achievement deal like the military with somewhat automatic advancements if you are doing well with your job. TWRA has many outstanding wildlife officers that remain as a WO for their entire career.

So no adjustment in the new hires and guys that have some service.

 

[uncle_loue]

i know this is a unique circumstance and likely not the norm but it has bearing on the 3/day doe limit in unit L. i hunt for freezer meat. never mounted a deer and doubt i ever will simply because its not my priority. my season goal each year is to take enough deer to have meat for a family of 4 to last a month into the following season as a bit of cushion. typically 4-6 deer will suffice (my kids are small). a few seasons back i had a terrible season plagued by bronchitis and blood clots in my leg after covid. i hunted little and when i did hunt had no success. on the last day of the season the Lord blessed me with the opportunity to harvest 3 does and i did. it was a mountain of work ( my wife and i process everything ourselves). but boy was my family grateful for those 3 does.

 

[killingtime 41]

It's impossible to lump a whole county into 1 set of rules. Especially extremely large counties. Cause I can promise you Southern Greene county and Northern Greene county are night and day in deer numbers. But I don't know if TWRA would be able to manage and have different harvest rules for separate parts of a county. Even though I believe that is the proper way to manage a deer herd. Just think if a population a vary drastically from property to property. Than it's guaranteed to be different 60 miles away in a different part of the county.

 

[Biggun4214]

Are you saying they didn't correct the pay scale to reflect the guy with 8 years of service? I'm sure they have ranks as you've stated, but I'm not sure how they can rank up, but if you're an 8 year veteran, and haven't moved up in rank, it's probably not an agency issue and more of a you issue.

No TWRA has a habit of moving the pay scale and just moving the officers pay to the step above their pay. Most officers with 8 years or more probably averaged a $25-50 dollar a month pay raise when the scale was moved. When I had 2 years of service, the pay scale moved. I was making 2 steps below officers with 25 years. Next pay scale adjustment with 9 years officers went to step 2. Officers with 10+ years all went to step 3. It took officers with 9 years of service 19 years to top out on a 10 step pay plan. This not only affects current pay but also retirement. With the last pay scale movement officers with 8 years or less went to step 1. I have talked to officers that were topped out that only got about $ 25-30/ month. Troopers that are on the same pay plan got 35% across the board. Basically TWRA officers are the red headed stepchildren of state law enforcement.