President's Island Review

[UpperTully]

Everyone speaks of the 2011 flood but there is a bigger picture to the flooding in the past decade that many don't know or understand. There have been 4 floods to rank in the top 11 at Memphis in the past 10 years. That's highly unusual to receive that many record book floods in a 10 year window.

# 2 record flood - 2011 - 48.03'
#4 record flood - 2019 - 41.37'
#10 record flood - 2016 - 39.59'
#11 record flood - 2018 - 39.44'

No one talks about the flood of the Winter of 2015/2016. There were 3 events in 2015, 2 are important to note.

The river crested at 31 ft at the end of March.
The river jumped up to 32 ft in July/August, which is HIGHLY unusual. I've questioned it's effect on the fawns as I saw quite a few does without their young during early bow season.
Then in December 2015 and January 2016 the river crested at 39ft with a couple weeks of sub freezing temps down into the teens

Deer on the river will hold out on higher ridges until the last moment, then they will bail looking for higher ground. As a result, December 2015 and January 2016 event had a mortality rate equal to or greater than that the 2011 flood. All wildlife seeking refuge were exposed to vast amounts of sub freezing water and temperatures. Many died from exhaustion and hypothermia. Deer would have to swim for miles in the extreme current to find high ground. Much like the 2011 flood, I'd seen evidence of deer carcasses were found entangled in trees 10-20ft off the ground.

On the spots I ran cameras along the river in 2012, you could tell there were less deer but I was still getting ample photos of deer. In late 2016, the evidence of the impact was greater than the 2011 flood. In many places I found hardly any deer at all.

With that said, if the flooding trends continue as they have in the past 10 years, Presidents Island and all the other places along the Miss River will not be what it once was.

 

[UpperTully]

Before the floods, the Island was a mystical, magical, beloved, awesome place. After the floods, it has lost much of the mystique and the hunters that put in for it now seem to be more worried about kills than encounters IMO.

I agree, The magical thing about the Island was the unmolested higher density herd.

The Island today, isn't what people think it is. It's running on the saga of what it once was.

You can hunt Shelby Forest, Lower Hatchie, John Tully, Chickasaw NWR, Moss Island, Earnest Rice, Tumble Weed or Reelfoot and kill a buck of the same class as you would on Presidents Island. I wont name them, but some of those areas would have a higher density than the Island does today.

 

[UpperTully]

I'm relatively new to the forum, but I have enjoyed the posts a lot. In response to Spurhunter's question about how many, I wanted to follow up because I have the information. TWRA followed the winter (post-season) population density for a number of years, including before and after the flood. When I say winter, the population density was estimated each winter sometime in either late December, January or February. So when you look at these numbers, just realize they are a snap-shot in time and do not reflect anything about movements to and from the island across the year (that's another interesting topic). You'll notice that 2010 was not represented, as no data were collected. The population density in the winter of 2011 was just before the flood in late April/early May of that year. The next year the population density declined by about 37%. If you visited the site after the flood, you will know how truly amazing the change was...sand everywhere and several feet deep in many places. In the estimate of the year that followed, the population density rebounded as was expected but declined once again. No more population surveys were conducted, to the best of my knowledge, after 2014. Given the comments, it would be very interesting to see how the population density compares this winter.
Year Deer/SqMi
2008 70.7
2009 86.3
2011 73.2
2012 46.1
2013 66.6
2014 41.2

Interesting how it jumps up to 66.6 in 2013 and drops to 41.2 in 2014. That's not due to flooding.

I wish the numbers for 2015, 2016, and 2017 were there. That winter 2016 flood did a number.

 

[UpperTully]

In addition to losing a couple thousand acres to the big flood from sand deposits, annual spring flooding has prevented access in recent years for planting soybeans. When I was there in 2007 there had been around 3,000 acres of soybeans that year, and I saw over 30 bucks 2.5 or older (including the scout day). When I was there in 2019 there were no soybeans that year and about 2,000 acres of cockelburs. I saw two deer 2.5+ and neither was during legal shooting hours. Losing that much food makes a big difference imo.

Beans usually get planted every year. The river is usually down far enough to get beans in during late May or early June. However, 2019 was an exception to the rule as the river was still above flood stage on July 1 and didn't fall into the high 20's until nearly August. At that point, it's to late to plant anything.

 

[Andy S.]

Good dialogue. I've been too busy to post, but UpperTully's post above sums up my thoughts to a tee. The flooding over the last decade has continued to punish the deer herd in the river bottoms.

 

[Bucket]

Yes, great info UpperTully!

 

[UpperTully]

So, I gather the soil is less productive after the flood and antlers and overall capacity are down.

The soil is still the same rich soil as it's always been and I don't see how it would have any bearing on antler growth. I assume you ask due to the numerous comments on the excessive amount of sand the river dumped in 2011. The sand deposits caused some loss in productive soil from crops, but the positive to the sand deposits is it created a new type of habitat the deer will use. Years down the road, these areas will evolve into blocks of timber, thickets and a grassy savanna type habitat. However, they're planting beans in much of those sandy areas. Even though they will have some patchy areas of low yield, it appears to be improving as the years go by from from what I've been seeing on sat imagines since the flood.

The sand issue is pretty common up and down the river after major floods. it's river stuff, for hundreds of years everything along the river has changed and evolved. It may take 100 years to make a major change or 1 flood event.

Google maps don't show it but If you will go to the link I posted below, it will show sat imagery from this summer. For the base map, be sure to use "NearMap" and go to layers and unselect "Address Points" and "Emergency Service Zones". Zoom in and you will see beans planted in the areas that are sandy and will show there is a lot ground still planted in beans.

Shelby County 911 Find My Address

 

[UpperTully]

Good dialogue. I've been too busy to post, but UpperTully's post above sums up my thoughts to a tee. The flooding over the last decade has continued to punish the deer herd in the river bottoms.

I figured you'd be chiming in at some point LOL

 

[easy45]

I hunted it in 2014 and killed a 136" 9 point. I saw a good many deer also. It's definitely not as easy of a hunt as it was before the flood but the December hunt is a lot better than the October hunt. I have pretty good private farms and don't care about going on any other draw hunts so I keep putting in for PI.

 

[TITANSFAN2104]

Will they let you go in there in the offseason to scout or look around? Or is it off limits

 

[tonybart55]

I've always heard of the President's Island hunt but never really looked into it. The way I heard about it though was as CBU93 had mentioned, like it was some sort of mystical, magical place. Thats unfortunate that it's been getting hit hard by floods in the past decade, I was a sophomore in high school during the 2010 flood and I don't think I fully comprehended the range or extent of the damage the flood had caused. I remember specifics about the flood, but my viewpoint at the time was pretty narrow and young so to read this and understand it now, it's interesting dialogue to say the least.

 

[fairchaser]

Can someone please explain the 9 point rule to me ? There is always people that describe huge mature 8 pointers on the island. That deer may die an 8 point. Why is it bad to shoot a 4.5 year old 8 point? I have seen pictures of 9 points that look 2 .5 in the kill pictures how is that better? I am just asking? I don't quite understand that rule and hopefully one of you that are more into deer biology can explain it. Thanks

The reason for the 9 point rule is simple. Most hunters can't score or age a buck on the hoof. I believe they added a width rule that allows a wide buck that may have fewer points. I know it was discussed anyway.

 

[fairchaser]

I hate to be a wet blanket but with CWD on the horizon, I doubt PI or Ensley will ever return to the glory days. I hunted Ensley 3 times. Twice before the flood and the last time 3 years ago. The first two times were amazing and the last time was a huge disappointment. Save your points and go somewhere else.

 

[Gravey]

Will they let you go in there in the offseason to scout or look around? Or is it off limits

It's off limits. You get to scout on Thursday prior to the hunt Friday - Sunday.

 

[Spurhunter]

The reason for the 9 point rule is simple. Most hunters can't score or age a buck on the hoof. I believe they added a width rule that allows a wide buck that may have fewer points. I know it was discussed anyway.

The new rule is 20" outside spread. Chris said width is not common in the genetics on the island. He said the racks grow heavy with mass and tall, but not often wide. He was against the rule change but got overruled.

 

[deerfever]

The reason for the 9 point rule is simple. Most hunters can't score or age a buck on the hoof. I believe they added a width rule that allows a wide buck that may have fewer points. I know it was discussed anyway.

I understand most can't judge age but I guess my point was why not an 8 point rule? Do they really think 30 people with bows on 6,300 acres will kill all the older age bucks if one or two of them get one of the huge 8 points that at least 1 hunter always seems to see. That deer may die of old age ! I am sure they know more than me but Personally I don't believe it would lead to devastating the herd . If you look at pictures most of what few deer are killed are 3.5 years old but several 2.5 are killed. This last hunt 0 deer killed. I know the goal is not everyone kills but maybe it wouldn't hurt if a big 8 was killed here and there. Just my opinion and I knew the rules the 11 years I put in for it but once again now I realize for me it's just not worth it. 6 hour drive, cwd zone to wait on a 9 point or better. I do hope it gets back to what it once was and the guys that Continue to put in for it I wish the best on their hunts!

 

[UpperTully]

Quite a few TWRA guys were against the 20" rule, it's beyond reasonable. It wasn't researched nor was there a single ounce of data presented supporting the original proposed 22" outside spread rule nor the agreed upon 20" outside spread rule.

On 4/26/2018, Region 1 Wildlife Manager Jim Hamlington went before the Commission and proposed a 22" outside spread rule for all 9pt or better WMAs along the Mississippi River that had the 9 point rule.

Comical to say the least, Mr Hamlington presented no data nor supporting evidence to warrant such a change. Click the link below to see the video and run it up to the 9:45 mark.

Mr Hamlington's Presentation

You'll see Commissioner Cox questioning Mr Hamlington on his proposal. He further explains he will later "run some cameras to check and see what we got". He further explains the damage of 2011 too with his off the cuff numbers and with no data to present. (Keep watching if you want to see how professional and well presented the other biologist are compared to Mr Hamlington.)

Anyone with any knowledge or researched any data knows mature bucks on the Mississippi River carry characteristics of height and mass more than width. Rarely are there extremly wide bucks harvested on that river.

At that moment, I presented the Commission with a plethora of trail camera photos I'd compiled over the years showing the protected class of mature bucks the 9pt rule had created. I showed the Commission what was being killed on the Island, Tully, Moss Island and Earnest Rice. Much of the biological data/measurements I sent came from the Mississippi Delta WMAs because TWRA doesn't check any of those WMAs except the Island. Those WMAs have the same soil make up and habitat characteristics of Presidents Island, Tully, Moss Island and Earnest Rice. The average width was 15-17" if I recall correctly. I highly urged a main beam length rule which would allow for those protected mature bucks under 9 points to be harvested but still protect younger bucks. The Commission never responded back to my email.

Later on during season setting the Commission debated the change down to a 20" outside spread rule. Still, no supporting data or research was even given or discussed.

Ive attached a trail camera photo from Aug of 2012 that is a perfect example of a classic mature Miss River buck with the height and mass. To this day is an illegal harvest on the 9pt rule WMAs. Over the years I've passed on quite a few bucks on 9pt rule WMAs like this that SHOULD be killed. I'm positive no hunter reading this thread would pass on putting a tag on a old buck like this. It is what it is though.

 

[UpperTully]

Another point I'd like to make and I'll digress. Many are speaking of seeing no deer and the low harvest numbers. The deer are still on the Island, I assure you that. It's just not the numbers it was 10-15 years ago.

The island has become your typical low deer density, Miss River style of hunting. It's no different from hunting the Miss River anywhere else in Tennessee. You may hunt several sits and see 1 or 2 or you may not see any. You may hunt 1 sit and see 6. You may hunt the rest of the season and see none. Hunting it with a bow during the heat of October when the bucks are predominatly moving at night and having 1 day to scout is going to yield a extremely low success rate, period. Especially when a bunch of guys are hunting it that's not used to hunting that kind of place. This is why I say you're wasting your time by applying for the Oct buck hunt. At least with the December hunt, you have the rut and cold in your favor. They're going to move but then again, it's still low density style hunting. Some will kill, some wont even see deer.

Hunting along the river isn't for everyone and will dang sure test your wits. Especially since we've been seeing so many record book floods in the past 10 years.

Being the current state of the island, I can think of several other quota and open to state wide WMAs or NWR in Tennessee where you have a higher success rate of killing a stud as big as you would on the island.

 

[holstonangler]

I think I hunted the 2018 December hunt, and remember a full day scouting at least 9 hours of walking and checking out the whole back side of the island and around the lake. There wasn't that many deer on the island. I believe 5-8 got harvested out of the 50 they let in there. It wasn't worth the 9 years of priority points to get in there, especially having to pass on mature 8 pointers. I sure hope it has got better since then.

 

[Spurhunter]

I've attached a trail camera photo from Aug of 2012 that is a perfect example of a classic mature Miss River buck with the height and mass.

That joker is tall for sure. Here's the 8 point my son saw Saturday evening. All he needed was a 1 inch kicker but there was none to be found.