Do You Hunt Deer With a Small Caliber Centerfire?

[Urban_Hunter]

I have never lost a deer with my .243. Between me and my son we have killed at least 15 with it. None have ever gone more than 40 yards after shot. It is about shot placement and knowing your surroundings. A .243 is not a brush gun. You can't shoot through brush and saplings and expect it to kill a deer. They are an excellent food plot and open wood rifle.

Any rifle caliber you choose requires a properly sighted in rifle, skill on the shooters part and bullet that is suited for the area you are hunting.

Agree. Which is why I am fine with .243 being legal. I just don't think anything smaller should be. Whats your opinion on .223?

 

[Urban_Hunter]

I agree, a small bullet is more easily deflected by twigs, grass, etc, but just because you sling a 220gr from an 30-06, or a 300 gr from a 45-70 doesn't mean it will chop down a 4" tree and still hit bullseye!!!

There is a solution to the 4" tree. .50 BMG. I have never seen a deer that I wanted to shoot that I couldn't, or didn't, or lost since I switched to this round. Not to mention gutting is much easier when there is no breast bone. I would propose it as the minimum, but I understand it is a tough round and heavy weapon for youth.

 

[Kirk]

I have never lost a deer with my .243. Between me and my son we have killed at least 15 with it. None have ever gone more than 40 yards after shot. It is about shot placement and knowing your surroundings. A .243 is not a brush gun. You can't shoot through brush and saplings and expect it to kill a deer. They are an excellent food plot and open wood rifle.

Any rifle caliber you choose requires a properly sighted in rifle, skill on the shooters part and bullet that is suited for the area you are hunting.

Agree. Which is why I am fine with .243 being legal. I just don't think anything smaller should be. Whats your opinion on .223?

If I get to site the .223 in first and choose the proper bullet for it, I would use it on a deer sized game animal.

 

[BSK]

I agree that everything comes down to shot placement. However, I'm not convinced the average hunters is very good at making proper shot placements. Because of that, I shy away from the smallest calibers. Looking at harvest data from large clubs, the calibers that produce the highest wounding loss rates are usually the smallest calibers, especially 243. And before anyone starts howling, I agree the 243 is an adequate killer with proper shot placement.

 

[Kirk]

I agree with you 100% BSK. A lot of the people shooting rifles at deer are not proficient enough to use the smaller calibers. (or even large calibers)

IMHO, to do the animal justice, you need to spend enough time during the summer shooting your rifle to know it's capabilities well enough to launch a bullet in November.

 

[pressfit]

I realize you all probably get tired of me posting this pic for the last 2 years but.. this is a doe i shot at about 40 yards with a .223.. honestly I cant remember the bullet I was shooting.. must have been a HP..

 

[waynesworld]

shooting the small rounds is totaly unethical

TWRA needs to change it to a 50 cal or above that way we all need to buy new guns and then we can buy local

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK2P70K4c94

 

[Urban_Hunter]

I agree that everything comes down to shot placement. However, I'm not convinced the average hunters is very good at making proper shot placements. Because of that, I shy away from the smallest calibers. Looking at harvest data from large clubs, the calibers that produce the highest wounding loss rates are usually the smallest calibers, especially 243. And before anyone starts howling, I agree the 243 is an adequate killer with proper shot placement.

Pretty much says it all. It is capable no doubt, but I think there are better options for most hunters, including myself.

 

[chiggerbit]

Its mostly the bullet choice. I have a 7mm mag that I used hollow point 165 grain in it last year. I shot 3 deer with it. All of the had exit holes the size of a golf ball and larger. This year I loaded some ballistic tip 120 grain going around 3400 FPS. The 2 I shot this year ran close to 100 yards. before they were done. The exit hole was no bigger than the entrance hole. The ballistic are a little more resistant to expanding, but also at 3400FPS they didnt have time to expand.

Good point. I had a buddy that reloaded his 7mm with Sierra hollowpoints and killed tons of deer, even though I'd tell him that wasn't a bullet designed for deer. For how many he shot each year, he felt that he didn't lose many, so what could I say?

Back to the .243 though, I've related how my son's .243 Handi wouldn't group with heavier bullets and a guy actually encouraged me to use the Hornady 75g. hollowpoints. Well, it doesn't matter if the gun prints cloverleafs if the buck is gonna just get up and run off after being shot and knocked off his feet! Yes, if someone's gonna shoot a .243, they ought to at least use a heavier and better constructed bullet that is designed for DEER.

If it was the Sierra GameKing HPBT, it is a fantastic deer bullet and even has a thicker jacket than the GameKing SP.

It was the Sierra MatchKing, and the reason he insisted on using it was that supposedly it was the most accurate bullet there was.

 

[m411b]

Its mostly the bullet choice. I have a 7mm mag that I used hollow point 165 grain in it last year. I shot 3 deer with it. All of the had exit holes the size of a golf ball and larger. This year I loaded some ballistic tip 120 grain going around 3400 FPS. The 2 I shot this year ran close to 100 yards. before they were done. The exit hole was no bigger than the entrance hole. The ballistic are a little more resistant to expanding, but also at 3400FPS they didnt have time to expand.

Good point. I had a buddy that reloaded his 7mm with Sierra hollowpoints and killed tons of deer, even though I'd tell him that wasn't a bullet designed for deer. For how many he shot each year, he felt that he didn't lose many, so what could I say?

Back to the .243 though, I've related how my son's .243 Handi wouldn't group with heavier bullets and a guy actually encouraged me to use the Hornady 75g. hollowpoints. Well, it doesn't matter if the gun prints cloverleafs if the buck is gonna just get up and run off after being shot and knocked off his feet! Yes, if someone's gonna shoot a .243, they ought to at least use a heavier and better constructed bullet that is designed for DEER.

If it was the Sierra GameKing HPBT, it is a fantastic deer bullet and even has a thicker jacket than the GameKing SP.

It was the Sierra MatchKing, and the reason he insisted on using it was that supposedly it was the most accurate bullet there was.

Not the most accurate as we all(most of us) know. But they are quite accurate.

The problem with MK bullets is their made for paper. At close range the may frag like their supposed to. But at longer ranges they tend to do nothing more than punch a hole the same caliber as the bullet with no expansion/fragmentation. Which is the reason I stopped using them.

Berger makes a match grade hunting HP that is specifically for hunting. But it's bonded so it will expand/frag on contact no matter the range. Most of the time Berger bullets have a lower G1 ballistic co-efficiency. But Berger uses the G7 scale, which matches today's boat tail bullet designs, and is way more accurate of a scale.

BTW, the Gameking SP, and the HP are the same bullet design. Except the HP doesn't have the lead tip. So they have the same jacket thickness.
Sierra GameKing

 

[mq32]

I use a 243 with the el cheapo 100 grain federal blue box. I have never lost a deer with it. I have shot out two hundred yards and they drop in their tracks. Oddly enough one ran about 50 yards when I shot it from ten yards. The bullet zipped right through it, which I hate. I want the bullet to expend all it's energy inside the deer. I will never shoot a lighter bullet to get more speed, it's not like a deer will hear a slower bullet before it gets hit.

 

[AllOutdoors]

Its mostly the bullet choice. I have a 7mm mag that I used hollow point 165 grain in it last year. I shot 3 deer with it. All of the had exit holes the size of a golf ball and larger. This year I loaded some ballistic tip 120 grain going around 3400 FPS. The 2 I shot this year ran close to 100 yards. before they were done. The exit hole was no bigger than the entrance hole. The ballistic are a little more resistant to expanding, but also at 3400FPS they didnt have time to expand.

Good point. I had a buddy that reloaded his 7mm with Sierra hollowpoints and killed tons of deer, even though I'd tell him that wasn't a bullet designed for deer. For how many he shot each year, he felt that he didn't lose many, so what could I say?

Back to the .243 though, I've related how my son's .243 Handi wouldn't group with heavier bullets and a guy actually encouraged me to use the Hornady 75g. hollowpoints. Well, it doesn't matter if the gun prints cloverleafs if the buck is gonna just get up and run off after being shot and knocked off his feet! Yes, if someone's gonna shoot a .243, they ought to at least use a heavier and better constructed bullet that is designed for DEER.

If it was the Sierra GameKing HPBT, it is a fantastic deer bullet and even has a thicker jacket than the GameKing SP.

It was the Sierra MatchKing, and the reason he insisted on using it was that supposedly it was the most accurate bullet there was.

I got it chiggerbit . And while the matchking tends to be a very accurate bullet and I know some that use it for deer, I also now believe your advise was good. :grin:

 

[EastTNHunter]

BTW, the Gameking SP, and the HP are the same bullet design. Except the HP doesn't have the lead tip. So they have the same jacket thickness.
Sierra GameKing

If you call Sierra, they will tell you differently. The SGK BTSP has a higher BC, but the SGK BTHP has a thicker jacket, making it a tougher bullet, per Sierra.

 

[Hunter 257W]

I think the 243 should be the minimum for deer. Yeah, the 22's will get you by IF used by a good shot who understands the need for a controlled expansion bullet. But how many deer hunters really know how to choose the right bullet for a 22 centerfire for deer? I'd say fewer than 1/4. Most guys will grab a box of whatever is cheapest and go hunting. They have no idea that they are using a bullet that was designed to completely distintegrate inside a groundhog. And to make it worse, they shoot a deer with it standing broadside so that the bullet just has to penetrate a rib, the bullet grenades and the deer drops like it was struck by lightning. They interprete this to mean they have found the ultimate deer rifle. The next deer though doesn't present such an ideal shot but it's a nice buck so the hunter shoots taking a raking shot and you've got a deer with a horrible surface wound that is lost. Read all the stories from back when the 220 Swift 1st came out in 1934. Nobody had ever seen 4,000 fps muzzle velocities back then so they figured that the shock alone from this velocity would kill as if by magic. Hunters were shooting deer, elk, moose and even grizzly bears with the Swift and the factory 48gr bullet - AND they were getting "struck by lightning" kills - sometimes. Other times the results weren't so good. Soon it becamse obvious that the bad shots were happening far too often and people abandoned the Swift for the varmint rifle it was intended to be. Then in the 60's and 70's when the 17 centerfires got popular, people started trying them on big game. Same results. If the bullet could hit no more than a rib it would explode in the chest cavity and give instant kills. If you placed the bullet just a little off your intended mark or chose to take a risky shot it didn't turn out so well.

Yeah, today we have much better bullets for the small caliber(17's should not be used for deer no matter what though!) but as I sad before, very few deer hunters are gun savvy enough to chose the right bullet. For that reason, I think it's irresponsible to allow 22 centerfires for deer. If you can't handle the recoil of a 243, you aren't ready to deer hunt.

 

[AllOutdoors]

Its mostly the bullet choice. I have a 7mm mag that I used hollow point 165 grain in it last year. I shot 3 deer with it. All of the had exit holes the size of a golf ball and larger. This year I loaded some ballistic tip 120 grain going around 3400 FPS. The 2 I shot this year ran close to 100 yards. before they were done. The exit hole was no bigger than the entrance hole. The ballistic are a little more resistant to expanding, but also at 3400FPS they didnt have time to expand.

Good point. I had a buddy that reloaded his 7mm with Sierra hollowpoints and killed tons of deer, even though I'd tell him that wasn't a bullet designed for deer. For how many he shot each year, he felt that he didn't lose many, so what could I say?

Back to the .243 though, I've related how my son's .243 Handi wouldn't group with heavier bullets and a guy actually encouraged me to use the Hornady 75g. hollowpoints. Well, it doesn't matter if the gun prints cloverleafs if the buck is gonna just get up and run off after being shot and knocked off his feet! Yes, if someone's gonna shoot a .243, they ought to at least use a heavier and better constructed bullet that is designed for DEER.

If it was the Sierra GameKing HPBT, it is a fantastic deer bullet and even has a thicker jacket than the GameKing SP.

It was the Sierra MatchKing, and the reason he insisted on using it was that supposedly it was the most accurate bullet there was.

Not the most accurate as we all(most of us) know. But they are quite accurate.

The problem with MK bullets is their made for paper. At close range the may frag like their supposed to. But at longer ranges they tend to do nothing more than punch a hole the same caliber as the bullet with no expansion/fragmentation. Which is the reason I stopped using them.

Berger makes a match grade hunting HP that is specifically for hunting. But it's bonded so it will expand/frag on contact no matter the range. Most of the time Berger bullets have a lower G1 ballistic co-efficiency. But Berger uses the G7 scale, which matches today's boat tail bullet designs, and is way more accurate of a scale.

BTW, the Gameking SP, and the HP are the same bullet design. Except the HP doesn't have the lead tip. So they have the same jacket thickness. Sierra GameKing

You should research a little more.

 

[AllOutdoors]

Its mostly the bullet choice. I have a 7mm mag that I used hollow point 165 grain in it last year. I shot 3 deer with it. All of the had exit holes the size of a golf ball and larger. This year I loaded some ballistic tip 120 grain going around 3400 FPS. The 2 I shot this year ran close to 100 yards. before they were done. The exit hole was no bigger than the entrance hole. The ballistic are a little more resistant to expanding, but also at 3400FPS they didnt have time to expand.

Good point. I had a buddy that reloaded his 7mm with Sierra hollowpoints and killed tons of deer, even though I'd tell him that wasn't a bullet designed for deer. For how many he shot each year, he felt that he didn't lose many, so what could I say?

Back to the .243 though, I've related how my son's .243 Handi wouldn't group with heavier bullets and a guy actually encouraged me to use the Hornady 75g. hollowpoints. Well, it doesn't matter if the gun prints cloverleafs if the buck is gonna just get up and run off after being shot and knocked off his feet! Yes, if someone's gonna shoot a .243, they ought to at least use a heavier and better constructed bullet that is designed for DEER.

If it was the Sierra GameKing HPBT, it is a fantastic deer bullet and even has a thicker jacket than the GameKing SP.

It was the Sierra MatchKing, and the reason he insisted on using it was that supposedly it was the most accurate bullet there was.

Not the most accurate as we all(most of us) know. But they are quite accurate.

The problem with MK bullets is their made for paper. At close range the may frag like their supposed to. But at longer ranges they tend to do nothing more than punch a hole the same caliber as the bullet with no expansion/fragmentation. Which is the reason I stopped using them.

Berger makes a match grade hunting HP that is specifically for hunting. But it's bonded so it will expand/frag on contact no matter the range. Most of the time Berger bullets have a lower G1 ballistic co-efficiency. But Berger uses the G7 scale, which matches today's boat tail bullet designs, and is way more accurate of a scale.

BTW, the Gameking SP, and the HP are the same bullet design. Except the HP doesn't have the lead tip. So they have the same jacket thickness.
Sierra GameKing

BTW, Berger Hunting VLD is not bonded.

 

[A/M/G]

.243, 85 grain sierra, BTHP. Killed 30+ between my son and me, drop the hammer dead deer. Closest shot 20 yds-ran 20 yds, longest shot 235yds-two steps dead. Son shot that one, he was 9 yrs old. 30 seconds before the 235 yd shot he shot one at 180 yds-ran 40 yds. Shot placement. But, agreed not a brush gun. He has never shot in wood environment past 50-60 yds. I have killed several in wooded environment 100+ yards, but I never try to shoot thru stuff. Know your gun, know your limits. 243 is plenty

 

[turkeyslyr3]

I shoot either a .270 or .270wsm only one deer hasnt taken a dirt nap right where it stood

 

[m411b]

You should research a little more.

The bullet caliber I refer to is the .223 variety. Not any bigger, and I don't need to do any more research. If YOU call Sierra you'll find that the SP GK bullet actually has a thicker jacket than the HP GK. Also, the HP GK bullet offered in the .223 is classified as a varmint bullet, and yes, I'm talking about the HP GK, not the HP Varminter.

The Sierra GK HP has a thicker jacket ONLY in the .30 cal line.

So really, YOU should research a little more!

As far as the Berger VLD's, you are correct. I thought I read on their site that their hunting bullet line was bonded. I was wrong. They're designed to frag.

After the bullet starts to expand it will shed 40% to 85% of its weight as shrapnel into the surrounding tissue (internal organ). The combination between the shrapnel and the hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that will be 13� to 15� long.

 

[stik]

.243 is a grat round for deer.if u dont kill a deer with a .243 it anit the caliber its the bullet choice or shooter.

that is exactly why we don't allow inexperienced shooters to hunt with anything smaller than 7mm08. ask most guides, most lost animals are shot with a 243 followed closely by the 30-30.