Do You Hunt Deer With a Small Caliber Centerfire?

[contendershooter]

This is kind of a sidebar to the post I placed about allowing the single shot rifles, handguns and shotguns during muzzleloader season, as there is a lot of talk about tradition on there, so let me throw this out...

When the TWRA at the request of the varmint and coyote hunters changed the law to allow the use of any centerfire caliber for hunting deer, did any of you change or do any of you hunt with the .17, .20 or .22 caliber centerfire calibers?

I will say I took my 5.56/223 AR-15 out the year the change became legal and harvested a good 8 pointer at 65 yards using a Hornady TAP 60gr factory load, deer was quartering towards me, there was full penetration and the deer took two steps and fell. Upon field dress, there was no apparent difference if it would have been a .243 or one of the .25 caliber centerfires.

So fellow hunters, what do you think about that change allowing centerfire calibers below .24 caliber and have you hunted with something smaller than .24 since becoming legal?

 

[Urban_Hunter]

Warning! This is only an opinion!

I wish they would change the rules back to 24 cal min. I have first hand witnessed on two occasions where a .243 failed at short range with no obstructions and centered on the kill zone. The first one just blew a giant patch of fur off with no blood at all, ZERO. The deer ran, stopped, turned around and took a 2nd shot to the neck that killed it. The original wound was superficial. The second time we have no idea what happened because we never recovered the deer. Great shot placement but almost zero blood. I just think the bullets are too light and moving too fast, and I think .243 is as close to pushing the envelope as we need to get. I know hundreds are killed with them, but you won't see me or any of my friends/family (that will listen) with one.

 

[yamaha200]

I have shot at 4 deer with a 243, and 3 hit the ground, and one ran about 40 yards. My son has shot 7 with a 243, 5 of the 7 went straight down, the other 2 ran no futher than 50 yards. My daughter shot 1 deer with a 243, and it went straight down. Would I shoot any caliber that was smaller, or allow my kids to, no I would not, but I don't have a problem at all using, or letting my kids use a 243.

 

[yamaha200]

Warning! This is only an opinion!

I wish they would change the rules back to 24 cal min. I have first hand witnessed on two occasions where a .243 failed at short range with no obstructions and centered on the kill zone. The first one just blew a giant patch of fur off with no blood at all, ZERO. The deer ran, stopped, turned around and took a 2nd shot to the neck that killed it. The original wound was superficial. The second time we have no idea what happened because we never recovered the deer. Great shot placement but almost zero blood. I just think the bullets are too light and moving too fast, and I think .243 is as close to pushing the envelope as we need to get. I know hundreds are killed with them, but you won't see me or any of my friends/family (that will listen) with one.

So the first shot, centered the kill zone, and did not penatrate the deer at all, just removed some hair. Do you think the bullet hit the deer, and bounced off it.

 

[bowhunter163]

Warning! This is only an opinion!

I wish they would change the rules back to 24 cal min. I have first hand witnessed on two occasions where a .243 failed at short range with no obstructions and centered on the kill zone. The first one just blew a giant patch of fur off with no blood at all, ZERO. The deer ran, stopped, turned around and took a 2nd shot to the neck that killed it. The original wound was superficial. The second time we have no idea what happened because we never recovered the deer. Great shot placement but almost zero blood. I just think the bullets are too light and moving too fast, and I think .243 is as close to pushing the envelope as we need to get. I know hundreds are killed with them, but you won't see me or any of my friends/family (that will listen) with one.

So the first shot, centered the kill zone, and did not penatrate the deer at all, just removed some hair. Do you think the bullet hit the deer, and bounced off it.

x2 ?

 

[lpo1981]

I have a 243 and have only killed 1 deer with it, only reason I'm holding onto and haven't sold it is that my daughter when she gets old enough and may want to hunt then she will use it since its light on recoil. I on the other hand won't use it and wish they would go back to minimum 24 caliber as well.. I personally think anything smaller is doing an injustice to the deer we hunt especially if you wound them.. In my opinion bigger caliber is better for hunting big game anime such as deer.. I want something that I know if I don't hit I perfect or screw up a little that I still have a chance of killing and finding my deer. That doesn't completely mean I will ever lose a deer but certainly something I won't worry about rite before I squeeze a shot off with a small caliber.. Again that's just my opinion.. I hunt with a 308/30-30/7-08

 

[Urban_Hunter]

I believe the bullet came apart. There was about a 3" round open wound. Almost looked like someone took a scalpel and took a 3" skin graph. I think the bullet hit the fur and started expanding, hit the skin and expanded more, hit the bone and just flew apart. There was absolutely zero internal damage. The weirdest part was the amount of hair loss. Where the deer was standing originally there was a giant pile of hair. I know bullet selection is key when using small calibers, I have no idea what he was using. We were just walking out of the woods together for lunch and it was a 4pt standing at about 50yds.

I'm not saying that is exactly what happened to the bullet as I did not film it with a high speed camera from the side, that is just my guess based on the observation I saw after the deer was dead. The second shot that killed him seemed to function flawlessly.

 

[Urban_Hunter]

I just think its tough with that small caliber. If you go with a HP you have to worry about bullet explosion. (This is not a myth, this happens to small light bullets with little mass that are at screaming high velocities) If you decide to limit that risk and go with a tougher bullet you have to worry about having a .24 cal wound channel. Miss the heart and you are in for a track. Miss the lungs and go home. I know... shot placement blah blah, but if you nip a blade of grass with this tiny screamer she's going off track!

 

[muddyboots]

Nope! 7/08 it will get the job done.

 

[Urban_Hunter]

Nope! 7/08 it will get the job done.

Great round!

 

[woodchuckc]

I believe the bullet came apart. There was about a 3" round open wound. Almost looked like someone took a scalpel and took a 3" skin graph. I think the bullet hit the fur and started expanding, hit the skin and expanded more, hit the bone and just flew apart. There was absolutely zero internal damage. The weirdest part was the amount of hair loss. Where the deer was standing originally there was a giant pile of hair. I know bullet selection is key when using small calibers, I have no idea what he was using. We were just walking out of the woods together for lunch and it was a 4pt standing at about 50yds.

I'm not saying that is exactly what happened to the bullet as I did not film it with a high speed camera from the side, that is just my guess based on the observation I saw after the deer was dead. The second shot that killed him seemed to function flawlessly.

That sounds like exactly what would happen with a bullet designed for varmints (something like a Vmax). They are designed to fragment upon impact on critters like groundhogs, bobcats and coyotes and are not designed for penetration. A soft point or partition style bullet, even in a light 22 caliber, would not just bounce off of a deer.

 

[deerhunter10]

No i don't thought about it but i want something with a little more bang just in case.

 

[Savage]

Love my 25/06 and my 7.08. Ive lost a lot of deer with a 243, just due to lack of blood trail. Shot lots that took dirt naps right there.

 

[TheLBLman]

. . . . . . . what do you think about that change allowing centerfire calibers below .24 caliber and have you hunted with something smaller than .24 since becoming legal

I think this is very unlike your proposal to allow single-shot centerfires during our muzzleloader season, which would require most current deer hunters to buy a new gun in order to hunt with a more effective weapon on those days.

By contrast, during the current centerfire rifle season, simply allowing centerfire calibers below .24 to become legal for deer did not cause anyone to have to buy a new rifle to be able to hunt with a more effective weapon.

I have mixed feelings about allowing less than .24 caliber to be legal for deer, and have no desire to use them for my deer hunting.
Personally, I've never even rifle deer hunted with anything less than a .270 (although I'm sure the .243's and 25/06 type offerings would commonly be adequate to get the job done). Just would rather have a little too much than a little not enough when it comes to what gun I'm using.

 

[Urban_Hunter]

Ive lost a lot of deer with a 243, just due to lack of blood trail.

It seems for nearly every claim of a deer killed with a .243 there is another just like this of one lost. It is more so than for any other caliber period. I couldn't imagine intentionally carrying an even smaller caliber rifle into the woods for deer.

 

[scn]

Ive lost a lot of deer with a 243, just due to lack of blood trail.

It seems for nearly every claim of a deer killed with a .243 there is another just like this of one lost. It is more so than for any other caliber period. I couldn't imagine intentionally carrying an even smaller caliber rifle into the woods for deer.

You do realize that a .243 has always been legal under TWRA regulations?

 

[Urban_Hunter]

You do realize that a .243 has always been legal under TWRA regulations?

Yea, I meant that before the rule change I thought hunting with a .243 was risky and for years there has been arguments between hunters of it's (.243) capabilities. If it was the benchmark for so many years and considered the "minimum" for safely killing deer then why would you even consider anything smaller and lighter? Sorry, I should have been a little more clear I guess. What's your opinion if you don't mind sharing SCN? I'm sure you have seen more than any of us the results of different caliber.

 

[scn]

We have seen no problems with the change.

IMO, it was a great change to accomodate the varment hunters and has caused zero issues. Ethical shots start with the hunter and their mindset. IMO, shooting a deer with a small caliber centerfire shows no worse "ethics" than taking a 300 yard offhand shot with a 7mm mag (for most hunters). Their very likely will be more favorable results with a reasonable .223 shot than the "hail mary" 7mm shot.

I've hunted quite a bit with a .260 Remington Model 7 I bought in hopes my kids would take up deer hunting. The ballistics of that round are very similar to the .243. I've killed several deer with that little rifle and have never had a problem.

IMO, the benefits for having some low recoil options out there for kids and recoil sensitive adults far outweigh the downside of lesser terminal performance. A well-placed shot nearly always will trump a non-letal hit from a larger caliber.

 

[BSK]

This is kind of a sidebar to the post I placed about allowing the single shot rifles, handguns and shotguns during muzzleloader season, as there is a lot of talk about tradition on there, so let me throw this out...

When the TWRA at the request of the varmint and coyote hunters changed the law to allow the use of any centerfire caliber for hunting deer, did any of you change or do any of you hunt with the .17, .20 or .22 caliber centerfire calibers?

Not me. I've always usede bullets from 7mm to 35 caliber.

 

[bbd12]

I hunt with 22-250 55gr core lokt shot 190lb buck in the chest took out lungs into the guts @50 yards never lost a deer with this gun i have lost more with a bow than this gun