Deer Hunting Ames Plantation

[Mike Belt]

I agree that the deer seem to shift locations from year to year even when all else seems to remain the same. The hot spots I was referring to were pertaining to sightings of big bucks by a hunter/s within or around a certain grid in a certain time frame. Once the rut kicks in even that can change drastically. How many times have there been sightings of a good deer in a certain area only for him to be killed over a mile from there? Several.

For the most part the bucks aren't going to express their full potential until they reach 5.5 years old. At Ames that means most of those bucks with great potential killed at 3.5 years old would only have been bigger. Shooting based on age would eliminate some of that happening but I suspect it would create the same problems Andy mentioned which would lead to the demise of the club. I know I've only killed 1 buck that I shot based on age and he was aged a year younger than I thought. Luckily he still scored. Not knocking the bucks we're checking in now but no telling how many of the bucks we've killed over the years would have scored in the 150's or better had they lived at least until they were 4.5. Overall though, I'm still happy to hunt a place where we can all generally see a few legal shooters each season and still have the realistic opportunity at one of those that slipped through the cracks for the previous 3 or 4 seasons.

 

[TheLBLman]

You know, Ames members might possibly best achieve more of the larger antlered younger bucks reaching maturity by the simplest of ideas:

A simple 1-buck limit. ANY buck, without any restrictions.

Via a "simple" 1-buck limit (with no antler, no age restrictions), many members might kill more of the smaller antlered younger bucks (allowing for more of the larger antlered ones to survive), i.e. less antler high-grading, while other members would become more selective, allowing more of those best-antlered 2 1/2's & 3 1/2's to live longer as well. All "fines" for the current sub-legal bucks could then be eliminated, as "any" buck would become legal.

Of course, this would have many of the same concerns & issues that have been discussed, and am mainly mentioning this idea because it is so comparatively "simple" and likely as effective as some more complicated schemes.

 

[Mike Belt]

I'm not for a 1 buck limit anywhere anytime and I'm sure most of the Ames' members aren't either; particularly when we're dealing with an end objective that won't come close to netting record book bucks. I suppose the old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" could come into play. My only discontent is not seeing half the action seen years earlier. Maybe I'm slipping as a hunter and maybe my cameras are as well???

 

[fairchaser]

You know, Ames members might possibly best achieve more of the larger antlered younger bucks reaching maturity by the simplest of ideas:

A simple 1-buck limit. ANY buck, without any restrictions.

Via a "simple" 1-buck limit (with no antler, no age restrictions), many members might kill more of the smaller antlered younger bucks (allowing for more of the larger antlered ones to survive), i.e. less antler high-grading, while other members would become more selective, allowing more of those best-antlered 2 1/2's & 3 1/2's to live longer as well. All "fines" for the current sub-legal bucks could then be eliminated, as "any" buck would become legal.

Of course, this would have many of the same concerns & issues that have been discussed, and am mainly mentioning this idea because it is so comparatively "simple" and likely as effective as some more complicated schemes.

If there were no age or antler restrictions with a 1 buck limit there would be too many bucks killed. Even though hunters would be selective, the kill rate would be almost 100%. Not many hunters fill both tags as it is so effectively there is almost a one buck limit now. That strategy might work if you could limit the number of members to about 30 but every member would have to kill 6 does on average. I think management has it about right for a 100 member club except for some minor tweaking.

 

[Andy S.]

Not many hunters fill both tags as it is so effectively there is almost a one buck limit now.

Ditto. We have always been under a 2 buck limit, but for the most part, we have operated like a 1 buck limit hunting club if you look at the number of bucks killed over the lifetime of the club. Very few members kill 2 in one season, although it does happen, just not year after year by the same member.

 

[TheLBLman]

I think management has it about right for a 100 member club except for some minor tweaking.

I cannot disagree with that.

But if you're biggest obstruction to achieving more large antlered mature bucks is the severe antler high-grading of your best antlered 2 1/2 & 3 1/2-yr-old bucks, it's plausible that even with a significantly higher buck kill of more "average" (including some younger) bucks, you still might end up with more 150-plus mature bucks than you're currently seeing.

Not disagreeing with you, but I'm not sure a 1-buck limit would necessarily significantly increase your total buck kill (nor am I pushing it as a solution, rather just a "simple" option). With it, true, some would "settle" for smaller-antlered bucks, but in so doing, they might not spend as much time hunting until a top-end 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 presented. At the same time, some others might become more willing to give a pass on more top-end youngsters (if not having a 2nd buck tag), which can be especially the case when much larger mature bucks are known to exist, or exist in higher numbers.

Kinda just boils down to those things we value more, which may include regularly taking top-end 2 1/2's & 3 1/2's
more than growing top-end 4 1/2 and older bucks.

We have always been under a 2 buck limit, but for the most part, we have operated like a 1 buck limit hunting club if you look at the number of bucks killed over the lifetime of the club. Very few members kill 2 in one season, although it does happen, just not year after year by the same member.

I fully understand that.
But also understand many would voluntarily kill 0 instead of 1 when they're under a 1-buck limit instead of a 2-buck limit.
IMO, the 2-buck limit is typically the best solution considering all factors, just saying, I believe a 1-buck limit would result in more of your largest antlered young bucks becoming larger antlered older bucks.

 

[fairchaser]

I follow your logic LBLman. But, the key to minimizing high grading is to get hunters to pass on high end bucks. Giving them cart blanch on bucks even with one tag will not do that. Those high end bucks will still get shot. You will run out of bucks before you run out of hunters. Using a 1:2 buck to doe ratio, there are about 83 mature bucks on Ames. I just think the odds of the great bucks slipping through would be less than now with 25-30 bucks being killed.

 

[TheLBLman]

. . . . the key to minimizing high grading is to get hunters to pass on high end (YOUNGER) bucks.

On that we agree
Now if we could only figure out the best way of achieving that without creating more other "cons" than "pros".

 

[Mike Belt]

Even with the 2 buck limit more years than not I've voluntarily gone 0 buck kills for the season. A 1 buck limit wouldn't make any difference to me other than the perception that once I killed 1 buck I'd be through for the season. I think that some of our hunters and not particularly just new members are obsessed with killing something. That sometimes equates to killing borderline bucks as well as some definite young bucks with exceptional head gear. A 1 buck limit would probably also remove "x" number of the hunters from the field for the season adversely affecting the doe kill. Right now we stand on 125+" OR 4.5+ years of age. A small percentage of our bucks checked in score less than 125" but score 4.5+. If we dropped the 125" minimum and went strictly with age it would probably help but there would probably be quite a few initial mistakes. I would look for those to dwindle over the years but members now do a much better job of guesstimating age on the hoof than previously joining the club. Even so, mistakes happen.

 

[fairchaser]

. . . . the key to minimizing high grading is to get hunters to pass on high end (YOUNGER) bucks.

On that we agree
Now if we could only figure out the best way of achieving that without creating more other "cons" than "pros".

Some years back they allowed hunters to keep the antlers on bucks that did not score at least 120 or age at 4.5 or older if they paid a fine. I think something like 40 bucks were killed that did not score or age and that set the program back several years. Now anything below 120 stays with the club for educational purposes. Even with a fine, hunters will kill what makes them happy regardless of the fines if they get to keep the buck. This is kind of a real life experiment of what can happen when you don't have real restraints on what hunters can shoot. I think management wants to keep the buck kill to around 30 bucks. That keeps the success rate high and allows some bucks to survive until the next season or two.

 

[Grnwing]

So will Ames ever produce a higher scoring bucks or will the statistical majority always be around the 125in mark, or whatever the club sets as a minimum score. I know there are larger deer killed every year but it seems that they have leveled off over the past several years. I hunt properties in Fayette county and it seems that the 120-130in deer is a good quality buck with deer over the 140in mark being exceptional. It seems that Ames is an extremely well managed property, but I would of thought they would produce more mature and greater scoring deer. What management tool could be used or is being used to improve buck age and antler score? Or is Ames at capacity for what the land/deer/hunters can produce?

 

[Mike Belt]

Just my opinion...My buddies and I affectionately call Ames the 130" club. With 125" being the minimum, theoretically everything killed should be that size or bigger. A 130" buck is a good buck and most hunters elsewhere don't kill them that size let alone have a realistic opportunity at one every outing. We do at Ames. Most bucks taken range between the high 120's and 140" but the chance at taking a 150" range deer also exists, just not as much as the 130s. There are deer up there that would go mid 170s and maybe higher. All you have to do is find them amongst 18,600 acres. I suspect that if every hunter was really concerned with boosting rack sizes they would judge the bucks they are shooting a little longer and a little better before shooting but I think most are happy taking those 130" 3.5-4.5 year old deer. That's what it would take to add a few inches to our average because I don't think management will go up on our minimum. It seems to be a happy medium between the size bucks we have and hunter expectation as well as give some lead way to a few slipping through the cracks every year to gain those inches. At the current level I'd say that we're pretty much topped out where we are now.

 

[TNRifleman]

Just my opinion...My buddies and I affectionately call Ames the 130" club. With 125" being the minimum, theoretically everything killed should be that size or bigger. A 130" buck is a good buck and most hunters elsewhere don't kill them that size let alone have a realistic opportunity at one every outing. We do at Ames. Most bucks taken range between the high 120's and 140" but the chance at taking a 150" range deer also exists, just not as much as the 130s. There are deer up there that would go mid 170s and maybe higher. All you have to do is find them amongst 18,600 acres. I suspect that if every hunter was really concerned with boosting rack sizes they would judge the bucks they are shooting a little longer and a little better before shooting but I think most are happy taking those 130" 3.5-4.5 year old deer. That's what it would take to add a few inches to our average because I don't think management will go up on our minimum. It seems to be a happy medium between the size bucks we have and hunter expectation as well as give some lead way to a few slipping through the cracks every year to gain those inches. At the current level I'd say that we're pretty much topped out where we are now.

When I hunted out there with my friend last year, we saw a buddy of his at the check station as we were posting our location on the board in the morning and he showed us some trail cam pics he had. There were a few good bucks but he had one on camera that was easily 165-170. I am pretty sure the pics were all between like 10PM and 2AM. It was a hoss for sure.

 

[fairchaser]

There are plenty of mature bucks on Ames! But, that seldom translates to high scoring. As BSK has continually educated us on what average versus above average is for bucks in this area and state. There are many 4.5 and older bucks that get passed on every season by hunters because they fit the average or below average score. They are too difficult to age with too much risk for fines and loss of a tag, possibly hunting time. Not every buck is destined to be a giant. Last season I shot a 5.5 year old buck that I had good pics of as a 3.5 year old. He was 120 as a 3.5 year old and 120 as a 5.5 year old. He had virtually the same rack. I doubt that buck would have ever made the minimum score, yet he is a trophy buck in my eyes. If more of those bucks were killed, there would be more bucks with potential that could make another year or two. Additionally these undersized older bucks tend to be dominant and rack snappers. The problem is there is no easy rule change that fixes this and aging deer at Ames is extremely difficult with variances even between units. Management even has a hit list for older bucks and reduced fines for veteran hunters. But in the end, it's difficult. I have had more success aging deer on behavior than body characteristics although all factors must be considered in a very short amount of time. Once a hunter gets burned with an under age buck, he pretty much avoids that hot stove in the future.

 

[Andy S.]

I heard that Ames is already full this year and is running a membership waiting list for the first time in several years.

I just confirmed this to be true IF all members from last year rejoin, which I highly doubt will happen. We typically lose a few each members each year for one reason or the other. If all members come back, we will be at capacity with 100 members, with 3-4 on the waiting list right now.

 

[W.Seay]

Ames is great as long as you don't mind walking a ton. If I didn't have alot of free land close to ames, I would still be a member.

 

[fairchaser]

Ames is great as long as you don't mind walking a ton. If I didn't have alot of free land close to ames, I would still be a member.

Even more walking this year as they are cracking down on the handicap permits. Now a Dr.'s note is required annually unless a known chronic disability exists. About 90% of the plantation can be accessed within 1/2 mile from designated parking however. Of course that inaccessible 10% is where every hunter wants to be. A membership at Ames is better than any gym membership. You're gonna walk a lot! You can do a lot of scouting on line but you still gotta get out and verify and fine tune. That's the fun part.

 

[BULL MOOSE]

Ames is great as long as you don't mind walking a ton. If I didn't have alot of free land close to ames, I would still be a member.

Even more walking this year as they are cracking down on the handicap permits. Now a Dr.'s note is required annually unless a known chronic disability exists. About 90% of the plantation can be accessed within 1/2 mile from designated parking however. Of course that inaccessible 10% is where every hunter wants to be. A membership at Ames is better than any gym membership. You're gonna walk a lot! You can do a lot of scouting on line but you still gotta get out and verify and fine tune. That's the fun part.

1/2 mile is 880 yards which is not a long walk on relatively flat land. Are the designated parking areas at the main county roads or at the end of farm roads? Are these roads accessible by vehicle? How far can you take an atv? How far can you take a bike? Do they provide a map with all of these trails marked, or is it posted on the checkin board? What about after a deer is down?

Just curious if the bigger deer come out of the 10% further than 1/2 mile, or if kills are all over the area. Do all 5 areas have remote areas?

It would be neat to know what type of cover that most bucks were taken from at Ames and the time of day.

 

[Mike Belt]

Figuring the road system out at Ames takes repeated usage until you can figure out what's what. There are 2 places where you can drive a truck into the interior, park, and walk or drive an ATV or bike in from there as long as you stay on the designated road. Other than that you basically park at a designated spot right off the blacktop and head in. Bikes can be used from all those areas and ATV's from some of them. On those where ATV usage is legal you can ride into the interior to designated ATV parking areas and walk from there. You can stop and park anywhere from where you park your truck up to those interior parking areas.

The main legal roads are marked on the map. The problem is that along those roads there may be a dozen more roads intersecting them not shown on the maps and some of them look more like a main road than the legal main road. Sometimes those roads are re-routed adding to the confusion. Having been in the club for 10 years they sometimes still confuse me. If you have a deer down you can use your ATV for retrieval within legal time frames but only on legal designated roads. You have to manually get your deer to a point on those road systems before loading them on an ATV.

 

[fairchaser]

Ames is great as long as you don't mind walking a ton. If I didn't have alot of free land close to ames, I would still be a member.

Even more walking this year as they are cracking down on the handicap permits. Now a Dr.'s note is required annually unless a known chronic disability exists. About 90% of the plantation can be accessed within 1/2 mile from designated parking however. Of course that inaccessible 10% is where every hunter wants to be. A membership at Ames is better than any gym membership. You're gonna walk a lot! You can do a lot of scouting on line but you still gotta get out and verify and fine tune. That's the fun part.

1/2 mile is 880 yards which is not a long walk on relatively flat land. Are the designated parking areas at the main county roads or at the end of farm roads? Are these roads accessible by vehicle? How far can you take an atv? How far can you take a bike? Do they provide a map with all of these trails marked, or is it posted on the checkin board? What about after a deer is down?

Just curious if the bigger deer come out of the 10% further than 1/2 mile, or if kills are all over the area. Do all 5 areas have remote areas?

It would be neat to know what type of cover that most bucks were taken from at Ames and the time of day.

Two maps are provided to each member. One is a land use map, color coded, showing current crops and various stages of timber types and maturity. The other map is a arial style map with designated parking spots as well as approved full time atv use and handicap use ATV trails. Property boundaries etc are also shown on this map. These maps are essential and even the experienced veterans study them continually.

Regarding when and what type of cover bucks are taken. It appears pretty random although it seems more bucks are killed in the AM. Probably because that's when people hunt. Some years certain units produce better than others. Who knows why?
Often bucks are killed in overlooked areas which might be 30 yards off the blacktop or next to a parking area. In the end, hunters are more predictable than mature bucks.