Baiting Bill HB1618/SB1942

TheLBLman said:

I'm sure the increased use of corn feeding/baiting is just one of many factors.
But it is a factor, and a factor we have a choice to either increase its detriments,
or reduce those detriments.

It is noteworthy that the decline in bobwhite quail has coincided with the rise in deer feeders doting the landscape.

If a single kernel of aflatoxin corn can kill an adult turkey, would presume even a tiny speck of cracked corn could kill a much smaller bird? Perhaps the increased use of "feeders" everyone is also a contributing factor in the decline of songbirds?

In my youth, not only were quail abundant, but we also had more songbirds, and spring, summer, and fall air was more full of their pleasant sounds. How many people on this site now have never heard the song of a meadowlark? The meadowlark's disappearance has been right along with the bobwhite quail's.

After clicking, scroll down to hear the sounds . . . . . .

Eastern Meadowlark Sounds, All About Birds, Cornell Lab of Ornithology

The sweet, lazy whistles of Eastern Meadowlarks waft over summer grasslands and farms in eastern North America. The birds themselves sing from fenceposts and telephone lines or stalk through the grasses, probing the ground for insects with their long, sharp bills. On the ground, their...

www.allaboutbirds.org

Northern Bobwhite Overview, All About Birds, Cornell Lab of Ornithology

An emphatic, whistled bob-white ringing from a grassy field or piney woods has long been a characteristic sound of summers in the Eastern countryside. It’s quite a bit harder to spot a Northern Bobwhite, as the bird’s elegantly dappled plumage offers excellent camouflage. They forage in groups...

www.allaboutbirds.org

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By that thinking, high ag areas like mine should be void of all feathered wildlife? There's corn laying everywhere for months after the combines are done. We still have a ton of birds even a few quail, but no turkey unfortunately.

Rockhound said:

By that thinking, high ag areas like mine should be void of all feathered wildlife? There's corn laying everywhere for months after the combines are done. We still have a ton of birds even a few quail, but no turkey unfortunately.

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A decent combine leaves less than 100# scattered across an acre. Most of that is eaten right away, turned under, or sprouts on the first rain.

It doesn't replenish itself indefinitely all winter. Waste grain in a field also doesn't prop up raccoons nearly as efficiently because they have to search for it in the open away from trees they can use to escape coyotes.

Acorn said:

The fact is when I plant food plots or a patch of corn I'm trying to pull deer off the neighboring property or trying to hold them. If I did use a corn feeder during season it would be to try and pull deer or hold them. One just uses natural farming practices and the other one doesn't.

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And......one feeds wildlife beyond the season and one doesnt.....one risk aflatoxin poisoning to poults and songbirds and the other doesnt....one spreads out wildlife over and area while the other concentrates them in a tighter location....one, when done correctly, can provide fawning and nesting cover....while the other doesn't.

So if the Only focus is on us killing a deer...then killing a deer over a corn pile or killing a deer over a food plot both equal a dead deer.

But if the focus shifts outside of our wants and to whats best for wildlife...theres a difference....big difference.

MickThompson said:

A decent combine leaves less than 100# scattered across an acre. Most of that is eaten right away, turned under, or sprouts on the first rain.

It doesn't replenish itself indefinitely all winter. Waste grain in a field also doesn't prop up raccoons nearly as efficiently because they have to search for it in the open away from trees they can use to escape coyotes.

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Your probably right but thats not counting alp the spills and run overs and unharvestable grain, and we have around 10,000 acres of ag surrounding our farm. There's still good corn in the fields now, seen deer in it yesterday evening. Nobody turns ground anymore, at least not here.

My comments were on the birds, farming practices have definitely hurt populations, but I doubt it's the actual grain.

Never had deer pay much attention to a corn pile. My neighbors have a corn feeder out for wildlife 24/7/365 in the field 70 yards behind their house and they've never once had a deer eat from it, but they get pics of deer walking thru their field every day and night.
I put minerals and a feeder with protein deer feed mixed with oats the week after deer season ended and have yet to have a deer touch it. They'll walk within 20' of it, but could care less about eating the feed from it.
I think the concerns about baiting are much ado about nothing.
I hunt a well known lodge in Alabama that guides hundreds of hunters each year on tens of thousands of acres. They were afraid the legalization of baiting there would pull deer off their property into the bait piles they envisioned would be laying on the neighboring properties.
They've had record seasons on their unbaited property for killing big mature bucks since baiting in Alabama was legalized.
Chill folks. I can remember when inline muzzleloaders and compound bows were going to be the ruination of hunting. lol

Hillbilly Hunter said:

It is not the same thing. Please read the entire thread and educate yourself. Opinions should always be based on facts. I don't mean that in an abrasive way.

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Ahh I wouldn't go suggesting to educate one's self from what they read on a forum.
As a matter of fact, forums are known to have a lot of false information-lol. Best you take your own advice. Also, it's not that big of a deal if people set up feeders. Keeping
cervid populations culled would likely help to prevent the spread of disease. Your forum name seems quite appropriate for your mind set.

vinootz said:

Ahh I wouldn't go suggesting to educate one's self from what they read on a forum.
As a matter of fact, forums are known to have a lot of false information-lol. Best you take your own advice. Also, it's not that big of a deal if people set up feeders. Keeping
cervid populations culled would likely help to prevent the spread of disease. Your forum name seems quite appropriate for your mind set.

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Spoken like a true Yankee.

Back in the mid 2000s when people from a few southern middle counties were crying foul on turkey populations, people on this site( including ones very vocal on this thread about saving turkeys) laughed, made jokes, called names. Told us how wrong we were, how there wasn't issues. Now that it has spread, it's now an issue, and these same people think they act like some of us haven't been talking about it since 2006. It's laughable.

DoubleRidge said:

And......one feeds wildlife beyond the season and one doesnt.....one risk aflatoxin poisoning to poults and songbirds and the other doesnt....one spreads out wildlife over and area while the other concentrates them in a tighter location....one, when done correctly, can provide fawning and nesting cover....while the other doesn't.

So if the Only focus is on us killing a deer...then killing a deer over a corn pile or killing a deer over a food plot both equal a dead deer.

But if the focus shifts outside of our wants and to whats best for wildlife...theres a difference....big difference.

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So you are saying we don't need to plant corn food plots and maybe ask the farmers to stop growing corn because it is not good for the wildlife. The corn we have at our local co-op is locally grown corn from my area so if it's bad then the corn the farmers are growing in these big fields must be bad too.

scn said:

Spoken like a true Yankee.

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I'm somewhat of a mix breed now. I spend most of my time in my Florida home these days. "You can take the boy out of the country but not the country out of the boy".
Guess I can't escape my yankee roots.

Acorn said:

So you are saying we don't need to plant corn food plots and maybe ask the farmers to stop growing corn because it is not good for the wildlife. The corn we have at our local co-op is locally grown corn from my area so if it's bad then the corn the farmers are growing in these big fields must be bad too.

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No....im saying people buying bagged corn and piling it up on the ground in a humid environment and risking mold and aflatoxin poisoning to turkeys and songbirds is much different than corn grown over many acres....local grown corn from coop is an option...but piled on the ground day after day is different....and the pallets of corn at walmart and tsc are likely not local and they are not sold in Texas....Texas requires certified afltoxin free feed for managers who choose to feed corn.....also a corn field allows animals to disperse as they feed....bait piles concentrate.

TheLBLman said:

EVEN WORSE, is legally allowing hunting over bait (baiting) on the private lands surrounding the public lands?

If you look at at only a half-mile wide perimeter of private land around most public lands, that "band" of private property often exceeds the acreage of the public land being surrounded.

The deer on the public land are the same deer on the private land.
Deer (and ducks, and doves, and all wildlife) belong to the public, not the private landowner.

Should it be a private property right to be able to "lure" public deer off public lands with methods not legal for hunters on public lands? That would be like saying the laws don't apply to politicians, but the general public must obey the laws the political class is allowed to exploit?

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And that's one of many problems we have with public land hunting here. Our National Forests and WMAs are all surrounded by private land full of corn piles. Whether it's hunt clubs or just a landowner hunting his land. Corn everywhere. Its also a reason that contributes to our turkey decline. I've talked to a lot of life long SC hunters who said when bait was legalized in the upstate area, I think it was in 2012, they immediately started seeing a turkey decline.

I joined a hunt club one season just to see if it was better and it was a joke. Half of Iowa's corn harvest was dumped on the ground and since I had no interest in shooting a deer over corn or even near corn, I had almost nowhere to hunt. Furthermore, it is so bad that it really became a situation where if you weren't hunting the corn you didn't see deer. So I killed one doe that season, only saw a couple more, and decided to leave the club. I am so against it that I didn't want to financially contribute to something I opposed so strongly. And the hunting sucked for me anyway because I didn't want to hunt near bait.

What I would like to see is the 91 voters in favor of baiting present their arguments. It's disappointing that the yes/no percentages are so close and there have been some fantastic arguments against baiting, all of which I agree with.

Where are the pro baiters? What is your argument in favor of baiting? How do you respond to all the positions detailing the negative effects it'll have on wildlife?

I've gained some education hunting over corn the past 4 years. I've been going on a semi-guided hunt in KY where it's legal. I've hunted all seasons, from the first bow hunt in early September, an early rut hunt in late October, the hottest rut week in November, to the latest one, a mid-January bow hunt this year. Two weeks ago, I decided to stop the semi-guided hunts, and I'm now on a KY lease and can hunt the way I'm used to hunting in TN.
In talking with many hunters in KY over the years, it seems most hunters don't bow hunt like in TN. They wait until the gun season, hunt over their corn piles and/or feeders, and shoot their one buck, and they're done. Here's what I've experienced hunting over their corn piles: Out of 4 semi-guided hunts across 4 very different periods of the season, I only killed one 10-point during the peak rut hunt that was chasing a doe and nowhere near that corn pile; however, last year in the early-September bow hunt I missed a chance at a 160" coming to the corn pile that was killed by another hunter the next week from the same stand. I attribute that to zero-pressure hunting while they are on tight late summer patterns. That first week of season over corn is by far their highest success rate. The early rut hunt in October 4 years ago I saw 65 does over the first three days before seeing a buck. They were hitting the corn hard, but no bucks. When I moved away from the corn and hunted somewhere that wasn't baited I saw several bucks the last two days and one shooter. I guess I say all that to say this. Deer can clearly be drawn to congregate at corn piles, but it appears you've mostly just created a great place to kill does and younger bucks. It may not be so much that mature buck's natural instincts are to recognize that pile of corn (or feeder) as a source of danger, more so than it is that we teach them that very quickly by sneaking into and exiting a stand under cover of darkness that's 30-50 yards or so away. Almost every time I walked to one of their stands I would blow out deer at the corn pile. And, how does one sneak out of a stand with 10-15 deer binging on a corn pile 30 yards away?...you don't! Bottom line: KY has been hunting over corn for a very long time, at least 20 years that I can remember. They are still a top state for taking a B&C, and in fact, they were moved up from the #5 state to the #4 state with the most B&C bucks taken since 2020. Tennessee, with its non-baiting law, had to deal with CWD long before KY did. IMHO, we are blowing this WAY out of proportion. Make it legal, don't make it legal, I don't care. However, I've seen it work out just fine in KY for at least two decades. I believe it might increase your chances of taking a doe or small buck sooner than you normally would but decrease your chances of killing a mature buck. Either way, I don't see it changing the total numbers killed, or adversely affecting the deer population as much as some are fearing. Several states have integrated it just fine. It won't change the way I hunt because I prefer trophy hunting. I'd rather eat venison from a 140" than from a doe, it just makes me smile bigger while I'm chewing. It will make it easier to fill tags for some, but they will likely fill them anyway. The transition from recurves, old lever action 30-30s and shotguns with slugs, old Hawken muzzleloaders with round balls, trail cameras, ATVs, etc...have contributed to more deer being killed easier than a corn pile will ever do! It hasn't been the downfall in any other state that it's legal, so whether it becomes legal in TN or not, we will be ok...IMHO.

bjohnson said:

Bills introduced to allow baiting on private land. Your thoughts?

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I also hunt in La where baiting is legal. Currently all the bait is devoured by hogs, coons and Crows and baiting is creating more hogs and coins.
The deer become more nocturnal.
If everyone on our lease baits their stand, the deer don't move except during the rut. They lay up near the bait.
Not a fan of baiting. See more deer without it

It would be very easy for TWRA to eliminate baiting amongst the good ole boy population. All they need to do is charge a set fee for a baiting license. After achieving said license, the individual would be considered a MASTER- BAITER. Then at all retail sales outlets that sell bait / feed, when the bait / feed is brought to the counter, require that the sales associate announce over the loud speaker '' MASTER-BAITER in check out isle ____''. This would put a stop to all self respecting good ole boys from such shady activities!

vinootz said:

Ahh I wouldn't go suggesting to educate one's self from what they read on a forum.
As a matter of fact, forums are known to have a lot of false information-lol. Best you take your own advice. Also, it's not that big of a deal if people set up feeders. Keeping
cervid populations culled would likely help to prevent the spread of disease. Your forum name seems quite appropriate for your mind set.

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He suggested read the thread AND educate yourself, not read the thread TO educate yourself. Subtle but significant difference that pretty much every dumb hillbilly on here but you comprehended with no trouble. Yet you had to point out how smart you are by demeaning the guy? Who's the fart smeller now?

MidTennFisher said:

What I would like to see is the 91 voters in favor of baiting present their arguments. It's disappointing that the yes/no percentages are so close and there have been some fantastic arguments against baiting, all of which I agree with.

Where are the pro baiters? What is your argument in favor of baiting? How do you respond to all the positions detailing the negative effects it'll have on wildlife?

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Depends if those positions against it are right in the first place. I'd never concern myself responding to 'all' the positions as you state. The more I think about it, what is the difference between a farm, food plot or feeder ? Wildlife will always go for the 'low hanging fruit" anyway. I don't and wouldn't hunt by feeders. However, I don't think of it as a big deal if someone wants too.

MidTennFisher said:

What I would like to see is the 91 voters in favor of baiting present their arguments. It's disappointing that the yes/no percentages are so close and there have been some fantastic arguments against baiting, all of which I agree with.

Where are the pro baiters? What is your argument in favor of baiting? How do you respond to all the positions detailing the negative effects it'll have on wildlife?

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I haven't hid from the onset brother and I stated my reasoning from the very beginning. Read and apply what you want that's what you do anyway. I even said if you really want to do something and I was on board with it was to stop all feeding the wildlife ! And only to do that you would have to have legislation and the state involved . I'd be safe to say but could be wrong as their is no evidence but the wildlife watchers have more feeder stations than hunters have bait piles ! And there are things you could apply that would make baiting safe but you don't want hear that all you want is to bash it and stop it . Now it's a legit complaint simply because it is illegal . Most of you contradict yourself anyway saying never seen a deer eat corn off a bait pile watch a few videos hunting deer in the far north and you'll see plenty . Seems the worry is over the turkey population anyway so if aflatoxin is the worry like I said educate hunters and find places that sell corn that's safe . There ways to comprise but you with the means to put out foodplots will still bash those that will bait regardless , calling fellow hunters lazy ! Some don't have the luxury some of you have to put out food plots nor the property either . I'm not hiding from my decision but I also said it doesn't matter one iota to me weather it passes or not . I used to supplement feed but hadn't done that in a couple of years , little hard on this old man climbing that ridge with a bag of corn ....I'm kinda lazy

Ski said:

He suggested read the thread AND educate yourself, not read the thread TO educate yourself. Subtle but significant difference that pretty much every dumb hillbilly on here but you comprehended with no trouble. Yet you had to point out how smart you are by demeaning the guy? Who's the fart smeller now?

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Hey if you're concerned about verbage and want to engage in semantics then it might have been better if he chose the word informed. Even then I wouldn't consider it to be properly informed from what one reads on a forum. Let's not forget
that the post you're referring to seemed a bit critical or overly picayune ; same as I find your comment right now. But hey no biggy. I'll sugar coat it from now on so the sensitive type's aren't disturbed in any way. lol