Winter wheat prices

PickettSFHunter

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What are yall paying this year? I just went and checked at two places in Cookeville and got some sticker shock. I havent been doing this foodplot stuff but maybe 6 or 7 years and can remember paying $6 per 50 lbs of VNS wheat. Both places I checked today were $14.95 per 50 lbs for VNS wheat, feed wheat, not seed wheat, and thats with tax exemption status.
 

BSK

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treefarmer said:
I have used cheaper "feed wheat" from the co-op and have had to fight annual weeds. Do any of you have any experience with this?

Yes. DON"T use feed wheat!!! Use VNS (Variety Not Specified) wheat.
 

JCDEERMAN

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richmanbarbeque said:
BSK said:
treefarmer said:
I have used cheaper "feed wheat" from the co-op and have had to fight annual weeds. Do any of you have any experience with this?

Yes. DON"T use feed wheat!!! Use VNS (Variety Not Specified) wheat.

I agree.

I agree 100%! I have dealt with this before.

$9.50 a bag for winter wheat at Centerville Co-op
 

PickettSFHunter

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Seed is actually my highest expense by far. As I use cultural practices instead of synthetic fertilizers except in rare instances and minimal equipment. But anyway I finally found some seed wheat, just had to do some driving.
 

BowGuy84

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Tell me about these "cultural practices". I have free tractor labor and need to lime something firece but I also have seed as the most expensive.

Based on my small plot size I've decided I'm going WW/Clover on all plots and overseading WW each year there after. The deer hammer it more than anything else I have planted over 4 years so I don't see why to mess with that.
 

PickettSFHunter

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It is all based on knowledge of what this or that plant does and needs. Take a typical white clover, typically white clovers will fix 150-200 pounds of nitrogen per acre per year. Legumes (like clovers) take in atmospheric nitrogen (N2) from the air and convert it to ammonia(NH3). To equal 150 pounds of N per acre, you would have to apply 15 bags of 10-10-10 per acre. Fertilizer analysis is in amounts of N-P205-K20. So in 100 pounds of 10-10-10 you only have 10 pounds Nitrogen, 4.4 pounds Phosphorous, and 8.3 pounds Potassium. The rest of the bag is just the carrier that does your soil no good. You are paying a lot for a little. To ensure your legumes are actually fixing nitrogen, just dig up a plant and inspect the roots. Look for nodules where the nitrogen fixing Rhizobium bacteria is and cut them open. If they are of a pink or reddish hue, then they are actively fixing nitrogen.

So a good cultural practice for adding nitrogen to the soil would be planting legumes on rotations. Take a 1 acre field and divide in two or whatever. Grow a legume on half for a few years, then rotate to the other half, meanwhile planting a nitrogen lover such as wheat or brassica ,etc in the half you just had the nitrogen fixer in. When you begin to notice signs that the N in that field is being depleted ( increased yellowing of plants, less growth, etc), then rotate back to a legume crop on that section. You could soil test every year to see how well your plan is working and when you need to rotate as well but knowing the symptoms is just easier to me.
Lets say you have a Phosphorous problem. Instead of adding synthetic P, grow some buckwheat. Buckwheat �mines� the soil for P that is already present and will bring up to where it can be available for future crops to use. In addition to that, the plant dying and decomposing will add organic matter to your soil.

Adding organic matter is one of the most important things. You achieve this through decomposition. So grow plants high in biomass such as buckwheat, millet, sorghum, annual weeds, etc, etc and allow them to die and decompose. Tilling in can be a good idea but you lose a lot of nutrients when you till through erosion by water and wind. Agriculture has gone away from the use of manure as a fertilizer due to the ease of synthetic fertilizers and that is just too bad. Manures add your essential elements to the soil and increase your organic matter. Build organic matter levels and you will increase your moisture retention, which of course is a great thing for us food plotters. As soon you till that soil, moisture starts being lost at a more rapid rate.

Unfortunately though, most people just want to go buy a bag or 10 of fertilizer and throw it out because it is so much more simpler than learning all of this and becoming a better steward of the soil and the land. There is a lot more to go on in regards to becoming a better steward of the soil but honestly it takes whole books to do it. I can add in what knowledge I have as necessary if anyone even cares.
 

waynesworld

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When i had a saltwater aquarium I knew a guy that tried to tell us how to measure the surface area of a grain of sand. some things I am just not as smart as you all :)

smstone22 said:
It is all based on knowledge of what this or that plant does and needs. Take a typical white clover, typically white clovers will fix 150-200 pounds of nitrogen per acre per year. Legumes (like clovers) take in atmospheric nitrogen (N2) from the air and convert it to ammonia(NH3). To equal 150 pounds of N per acre, you would have to apply 15 bags of 10-10-10 per acre. Fertilizer analysis is in amounts of N-P205-K20. So in 100 pounds of 10-10-10 you only have 10 pounds Nitrogen, 4.4 pounds Phosphorous, and 8.3 pounds Potassium. The rest of the bag is just the carrier that does your soil no good. You are paying a lot for a little. To ensure your legumes are actually fixing nitrogen, just dig up a plant and inspect the roots. Look for nodules where the nitrogen fixing Rhizobium bacteria is and cut them open. If they are of a pink or reddish hue, then they are actively fixing nitrogen.

So a good cultural practice for adding nitrogen to the soil would be planting legumes on rotations. Take a 1 acre field and divide in two or whatever. Grow a legume on half for a few years, then rotate to the other half, meanwhile planting a nitrogen lover such as wheat or brassica ,etc in the half you just had the nitrogen fixer in. When you begin to notice signs that the N in that field is being depleted ( increased yellowing of plants, less growth, etc), then rotate back to a legume crop on that section. You could soil test every year to see how well your plan is working and when you need to rotate as well but knowing the symptoms is just easier to me.
Lets say you have a Phosphorous problem. Instead of adding synthetic P, grow some buckwheat. Buckwheat �mines� the soil for P that is already present and will bring up to where it can be available for future crops to use. In addition to that, the plant dying and decomposing will add organic matter to your soil.

Adding organic matter is one of the most important things. You achieve this through decomposition. So grow plants high in biomass such as buckwheat, millet, sorghum, annual weeds, etc, etc and allow them to die and decompose. Tilling in can be a good idea but you lose a lot of nutrients when you till through erosion by water and wind. Agriculture has gone away from the use of manure as a fertilizer due to the ease of synthetic fertilizers and that is just too bad. Manures add your essential elements to the soil and increase your organic matter. Build organic matter levels and you will increase your moisture retention, which of course is a great thing for us food plotters. As soon you till that soil, moisture starts being lost at a more rapid rate.

Unfortunately though, most people just want to go buy a bag or 10 of fertilizer and throw it out because it is so much more simpler than learning all of this and becoming a better steward of the soil and the land. There is a lot more to go on in regards to becoming a better steward of the soil but honestly it takes whole books to do it. I can add in what knowledge I have as necessary if anyone even cares.
 

Quailman

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Location
Winchester, TN
Very good information Steven. What you discussed touches on a new "science" that NRCS is developing known as Soil Health. I had the opportunity to listen to a well known NRCS Agronomist discuss Soil Health at one of our meetings a few months ago. His presentation was fascinating, and he talked about the benefits of completely moving away from any type of conservation tillage and going strictly with no-till planting coupled with diverse cover crops throughout the year.

If you want some quality reading, just Google "Soil Health, NRCS" and you will find plenty of information on this subject.

Every time we turn the soil, we are disrupting extremely important biological processes that plants need to grow. There are millions of micro and macro organisms within the first few inches of soil that can actually provide all the necessary nutrients that plants need without using fertilizer and other soil amendments. In order to maintain these biological processes, cover crops are used throughout the year with normal crop rotation to keep these organisms alive so that the cycle can continue. Also, certain cover crops can be used (as Steven mentioned) to provide additional nutrients during the growing cycle. In essence, what we are trying to do is replicate native plant communities that thrive without soil amendments because of plant diversity as well as interaction with soil organims. Additional benefits from implementing this type of system is an increased organic layer, reduced soil compaction, increased water infiltration, and the list goes on and on.

It is really exciting information, and I know you will hear a lot more about it in the near future.
 

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