Question bird population vs harvest

[volboy]

I was reading the NWTF book and it listed bird population vs harvest for states. For TN, it shows population 250k and harvest 50k, so about 20%. I looked at all the surrounding states and the harvest % is a lot less. Any reason for this? More hunters?

State population harvest
SC. 100K. 14,500
NC. 270K. 20K
MO. 390K. 35K
MI. 250K-275K 22,500
KY. 250K-400K 30K
IN. 125k. 12,500
IA. 120k. 11,500
AL. 365K. 25K
AR. 100K. 7,500

GA didn't give population but harvest is 17,500
FL didn't give population but harvest is 15,000

Sorry if this has been discussed previously.

 

[MickThompson]

Counting turkeys is really difficult. I'd take any population estimate with a TDOT truck full of salt

 

[Andy S.]

First thing I would want to know is how are the Agencies estimating existing populations, and what is their confidence level in their numbers. Second, TN has pretty much been 30-35k reported spring harvest for some time now (minus 2020 pandemic spring season when we had 4 bird limit).

 

[Bgoodman30]

Because both of those numbers are wrong...

 

[deerfever]

TN is an estimated, it had only around 30k actually checked in, I don't know where the 50k comes from. Also you get into different lengths of season, limits , # of hunters , etc..... Hard to tell anything by that , would be my guess.

 

[Creek bottoms]

My gut tells me TN gets covered up with out of staters. I hope the later start will curtail some of that.

 

[Bgoodman30]

My gut tells me TN gets covered up with out of staters. I hope the later start will curtail some of that.

Here is a major problem with our license/check system.. We should know exactly...

 

[MickThompson]

TN is an estimated, it had only around 30k actually checked in, I don't know where the 50k comes from. Also you get into different lengths of season, limits , # of hunters , etc..... Hard to tell anything by that , would be my guess.

I think they did a survey and that was the gap between what was checked and what the anonymous survey figured.

 

[woodsman04]

FWIW, Alabama just implemented the tagging system not long ago. And they have had ultimate rebellion with non compliance with it. Hahahaha. So there kill number is way less than what it probably is.
(I don't know this for fact, but read ALdeer and you will notice it.)

 

[TheLBLman]

I was reading the NWTF book and it listed bird population vs harvest for states. For TN, it shows population 250k and harvest 50k, so about 20%.

Just for giggles & grins, let's assume that 250k estimate for TN's turkey population is correct.

What percentage of that population is female vs. male?

More importantly, what percentage is 2 yrs old or older, and what percentage of those are male?

Males don't have a significant "long" beard before they're near 2 years old, so I suspect most of the male birds in that 250k estimate would be "jakes"?

 

[megalomaniac]

All this discussion with the undertone that we are killing too many gobblers.

I've said this a million times before. How many adult males you kill is irrelevant to turkey population/ reproduction IF they are killed AFTER the bulk of breeding is done and IF all jakes are protected to ensure the following year there are 2yos to do the breeding.

Now killing males before mating, and killing off jakes so nothing is left to breed the following year is just asanine unless you are in an area with little hunting pressure.

 

[TheLBLman]

All this discussion with the undertone that we are killing too many gobblers.

I've said this a million times before. How many adult males you kill is irrelevant to turkey population/ reproduction IF they are killed AFTER the bulk of breeding is done and IF all jakes are protected to ensure the following year there are 2yos to do the breeding.

While you are correct, if there were nothing left but jakes every year, we'd never have the opportunity to kill an old gobbler.

Killing all the 2-yr-old Toms is akin to killing all the 2 1/2-yr-old bucks. Sure, the ongoing population/reproduction may be little effected so long as all the 2 1/2 & older bucks are killed AFTER the bulk of breeding is done.

I enjoy the challenge of older Toms just like the challenge of mature bucks.

 

[megalomaniac]

While you are correct, if there were nothing left but jakes every year, we'd never have the opportunity to kill an old gobbler.

Killing all the 2-yr-old Toms is akin to killing all the 2 1/2-yr-old bucks. Sure, the ongoing population/reproduction may be little effected so long as all the 2 1/2 & older bucks are killed AFTER the bulk of breeding is done.

I enjoy the challenge of older Toms just like the challenge of mature bucks.

Oh, don't get me wrong... I LOVE to kill 1.5in spurred birds... which is why I make sure I leave at least 50% of adult males each year alive on my farms at the end of the season. Not just to ensure ALL the hens willing to breed as late as July get bred, but also to have some long spurred warriors to chase the following year.

BUT, from a strictly biological standpoint... you can literally kill every single adult male (NOT the juveniles) and not affect the population, as long as they are killed after the bulk of hens are fertilized. And the great thing is... the jakes that were infertile during April (if protected) have often become sexually mature and capable of fertilizing renrsting hens and jennies in June.

Now I'm not advocating getting rid of limits on adult males. It's good to spread the harvest out amongst many hunters instead of one hunter killing 10 or 15 while his neighbors kill nothing... but what I am saying is WHEN toms are killed is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more important than HOW MANY toms are killed.

 

[Wooden Arrow]

you can literally kill every single adult male (NOT the juveniles) and not affect the population

the odds of that are astronomical, however. maybe if you shot them out of roost trees with a starlight scope...

 

[Wooden Arrow]

FWIW, Alabama just implemented the tagging system not long ago. And they have had ultimate rebellion with non compliance with it. Hahahaha. So there kill number is way less than what it probably is.
(I don't know this for fact, but read ALdeer and you will notice it.)

yeah, i'll bet it is unpopular. the first twenty-odd years we went down there, you weren't required to check them in. even on the managed areas, the checking stations were not open. they posted a piece of paper on the door that you could self-report if you wanted. folks had stuff on there like -33 lbs, 2" spurs, 14" beards (3 of them!) wardens didn't care. we have NEVER had our licenses checked or anything.

 

[megalomaniac]

the odds of that are astronomical, however. maybe if you shot them out of roost trees with a starlight scope...

We had zero problem doing that in the late 1800s/ early 1900s throughout America. And those old good ole boys didn't have starlight scopes.

Don't underestimate the damage a good ole boy can do with a shotgun if he is motivated.

Hell, turn me loose in an area with one gobbler in 10 Sq miles. If he makes the mistake of actually gobbling, I'm leaving the woods with him over my shoulder, and I'm not even that good of a turkey killer.

 

[Wooden Arrow]

And those old good ole boys didn't have starlight scopes.

didn't have seasons, limits, shooting hours, laws against baiting, nor game wardens either. just saying... see also -market hunting for waterfowl.

 

[megalomaniac]

didn't have seasons, limits, shooting hours, laws against baiting, nor game wardens either. just saying... see also -market hunting for waterfowl.

And you think folks who don't adhere to checking birds in in Alabama are adhering to seasons/ limits/ baiting restrictions, etc???



Dunno about Alabama, but turkey season starts in Mississippi when they start gobbling... usually 3rd week of Feb. Doesn't matter season officially opens Mar 15th.

Again, turn a real turkey killer loose in an area with very few birds, and he is gonna leave the woods with every longbeard there. Maybe legally, maybe illegally over bait, fish hooks baited with corn,.whatever it takes to bring them.to bag.

Turkeys aren't like roaches or whitetails... it IS possible to for mankind to wipe them out.

 

[Layne]

Dunno about Alabama, but turkey season starts in Mississippi when they start gobbling... usually 3rd week of Feb. Doesn't matter season officially opens Mar 15th.

lol, yeah them Mississippi boys don't waste money on decoys either, corns cheaper...

 

[Southern Sportsman]

FWIW, Alabama just implemented the tagging system not long ago. And they have had ultimate rebellion with non compliance with it. Hahahaha. So there kill number is way less than what it probably is.
(I don't know this for fact, but read ALdeer and you will notice it.)

The first couple years of "mandatory" reporting, they had around 9,000 turkeys checked in. In all of Alabama.