3 bird limit???

[Bone Collector]

I was just looking at the thread in the deer hunting form about the TWRA meeting that they had on the 22nd. And I just realized that on the initial post, the OP said three bird limit, and when somebody questioned the three bird limit, they posted a picture of a map of Tennessee, and basically everything from the west side of the state all the way to the middle of the state had a three bird limit.

I know the commission has to approve all that and nothing is set in stone, but it appears they're proposing to raise the limit back to three birds in the middle and West Tennessee.

 

[deerfever]

Yes it appears so, two bird limit in the northeast region and 3 bird limit in the others. No one may kill over 3 total statewide. So you could also possibly kill 2 in the Northeast then harvest one more out of one of the other regions/counties in dark blue. Or at least that is the way I understand it.

 

[megalomaniac]

Yup. Looks like TWRA had enough complaints about the 2 bird limit and delayed season start that they are going back to what caused the population collapse in the first place.

Just too hard to hunt turkeys in May, since they are all gobbled out. Need to kill them early before they breed hens and all their gobbles are used up.

As far as limits... ive said a million times, spring limits are irrelevant to population growth or decline, as long as only adult males (no jakes allowed) are removed AFTER bulk of breeding has occurred.

But I'd be curious to know how much NR revenue was lost last year with the delayed season start and reduction in limit to 2. Maybe nothing. Maybe a big factor in TWRAs decision.to recommend going back to the way things were.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Looks like TWRA had enough complaints about the 2 bird limit and delayed season start that they are going back to what caused the population collapse in the first place.

Is there also a recommendation to change the start date (I might have missed that piece)?

 

[MidTennFisher]

Yup. Looks like TWRA had enough complaints about the 2 bird limit and delayed season start that they are going back to what caused the population collapse in the first place.

Just too hard to hunt turkeys in May, since they are all gobbled out. Need to kill them early before they breed hens and all their gobbles are used up.

As far as limits... ive said a million times, spring limits are irrelevant to population growth or decline, as long as only adult males (no jakes allowed) are removed AFTER bulk of breeding has occurred.

But I'd be curious to know how much NR revenue was lost last year with the delayed season start and reduction in limit to 2. Maybe nothing. Maybe a big factor in TWRAs decision.to recommend going back to the way things were.

I was of the same opinion about the start date as the only arguments I'd seen were that delaying the opener results in more eggs on the ground and less overall interruption to the breeding. But then I saw folks here saying it makes no difference and there was even a study posted.

Reading the abstract was clear that the results of that study showed no difference in eggs laid or poults that made it to adulthood.

Lately my opinion has strongly shifted towards the use of male decoys being more of a detriment than the opening date. Those dominant gobblers that we want doing the breeding aren't receptive to calling anyway until they've bred their entire harem of hens. But they are, however, very receptive to running towards a male decoy to fight. We don't want those birds killed until way later in the season.

So if we're going to continue to let people throw up tail fans on private land and sit behind strutter decoys on WMA, I think the opener should be later. What I would love to see the most is a return to the early April opener but NO DECOY usage, male or female, until somewhere near the end of April.

Really I'd like to see no decoy usage at all but I know that will never happen. We have to find a middle ground somewhere.

 

[Gobble4me757]

Yup. Looks like TWRA had enough complaints about the 2 bird limit and delayed season start that they are going back to what caused the population collapse in the first place.

Show me data proving this…I'm all ears

 

[drake799]

I bet we lost a decent chunk of change on license sales last year hence the change back

 

[Stlbaseball1]

Is there also a recommendation to change the start date (I might have missed that piece)?

Yeah - move start date basically one week to first Saturday closest to April 7th and have a 6 week season. That is the proposal.

 

[Creek bottoms]

They can't find their a$$ with both hands.

 

[paboom]

I don't like the 3 bird limit given the current state of affairs, however very few people will kill 3. Obviously predators are a hot topic but that's not even been touched by the TWRA that I can tell.

The data is pretty clear that the delayed opener didn't do what it was hoping to accomplish. I've historically never been on the 'ban decoys' train, but I'm about to hop on. May not make much of a difference in the mountains, but a lot of field and private land birds are killed in front of a decoy that may not have otherwise been.

 

[MidTennFisher]

I don't like the 3 bird limit given the current state of affairs, however very few people will kill 3. Obviously predators are a hot topic but that's not even been touched by the TWRA that I can tell.

The data is pretty clear that the delayed opener didn't do what it was hoping to accomplish. I've historically never been on the 'ban decoys' train, but I'm about to hop on. May not make much of a difference in the mountains, but a lot of field and private land birds are killed in front of a decoy that may not have otherwise been.

Agreed, so few people kill a 3rd bird anyway. SC is about to take our limit from 3 to 2 and it's stupid. Something like 2% of the annual harvest is a 3rd turkey so it's just doing something to say they did something.

Not allowing the use of decoys would save so many more birds than dropping one off the season bag limit would. And, most importantly, it saves the right birds.

The dominant Toms are the ones we want breeding hens, not getting easily killed opening weekend because they came running to fight a decoy. If they get killed, it should be later in the season after they've done a lot of breeding and because they were fooled by good calling and good hiding.

 

[Iglow]

Season limits don't kill birds, season length does.
What I want to see is a decline in numbers killed, and a decline in turkey hunter numbers.
I think chopping off the front of the season was the right thing to do.

 

[paboom]

Season limits don't kill birds, season length does.
What I want to see is a decline in numbers killed, and a decline in turkey hunter numbers.
I think chopping off the front of the season was the right thing to do.

With all due respect, cutting two weeks off the season on the front end didn't accomplish this last year. In fact, the totals were higher than the prior year when the season started 2 weeks earlier.

2022 - 29,980
2023 - 31,969

Over half of the year's total kills are within the first 7 days regardless of the start date.

 

[Gravey]

I'm for leaving the limit at 2 birds although I typically only kill 1 if that. Just don't get the time to hunt them that I wish I could.

Also in that same thread it was mentioned removing the 1 jake restriction if I read it right. Wish they'd leave it or even say no jakes except maybe for juveniles.

 

[REN]

actually pretty excited moving the season back up a week (selfishly not biologically )

Limit of 2 or 3 makes no difference to me. Yes I limit out each year but I gauge that based on the populations of the areas I hunt. If its low I either dont hunt it or only kill one there.

Id LOVE to ban decoys at least the first week, now that is statistics Id love to see. Shorten the season (reduce the days in May) and outlaw jakes and hens, all that would be a great start IMO

 

[Bgoodman30]

Show me data proving this…I'm all ears

There is none..

The regulations changes had zero positive effects on breeding success. The only positive effect is the potential gobbler carryover in some areas but that's a drop in the bucket..

I am actually beginning to become concerned that last years hatch and/ or poult survival was terrible..

 

[Coker]

But But But, it was the late season opener that caused a major increase in the population. The late season opener created all the perfect nesting habitat and decreased the predation. The late season opener because they didnt have a CLUE and decided to make an irrational decision.
'Nuf Said!

 

[deerfever]

Show me data proving this…I'm all ears

There is no data at all to show a delay helps but there is a study and data that disproves the theory that a delayed season helps any with reproductive benefits. It has been posted here several times, hundreds of collared hens involved. My guess if guys that feel strongly about the theory and believe the delay is beneficial they will just simply wait a week on their land to go after them next season giving another week to breed , probably just go listen opening weekend , not pull the trigger(still gives you 5 weeks), private land, so you control the start date and how many you kill. Public land I get it. We have had great hatches 3 years in a row in TN with a delay and without a delay. Common factor, dry weather at the right time.Mississippi blows the delay theory out of the water one of the best hatches they ever had was in 2022, and it opens March 15. It's been shown for years by TWRA that 90 something percent of hunters kill either one or two birds per year, with the highest percentage of all only killing 1, so the 3 bird limit should not be too bad and may allow someone to go on a late quota hunt (since it's no longer a bonus bird)if they have already killed 2. I am guessing that again lots of people will self impose a two bird limit because of the strong feelings towards it. That's just a guess but either way a very small percentage has ever killed over two.

 

[Bgoodman30]

There is no data at all to show a delay helps but there is a study and data that disproves the theory that a delayed season helps any with reproductive benefits. It has been posted here several times, hundreds of collared hens involved. My guess if guys that feel strongly about the theory and believe the delay is beneficial they will just simply wait a week on their land to go after them next season giving another week to breed , probably just go listen opening weekend , not pull the trigger(still gives you 5 weeks), private land, so you control the start date and how many you kill. Public land I get it. We have had great hatches 3 years in a row in TN with a delay and without a delay. Common factor, dry weather at the right time.Mississippi blows the delay theory out of the water one of the best hatches they ever had was in 2022, and it opens March 15. It's been shown for years by TWRA that 90 something percent of hunters kill either one or two birds per year, with the highest percentage of all only killing 1, so the 3 bird limit should not be too bad and may allow someone to go on a late quota hunt (since it's no longer a bonus bird)if they have already killed 2. I am guessing that again lots of people will self impose a two bird limit because of the strong feelings towards it. That's just a guess but either way a very small percentage has ever killed over two.

Facts. Data. Love it. I really wanted the delay to save the turkeys but it won't.

Change the season and limits back and focus on habitat loss, disease and predators...

Some of ya'll kind of remind me of liberals linking arms for gun control... Sorry not sorry.

 

[knightrider]

Two weeks or 10 weeks, 2 birds or 4, open it late or open normal, none of that matters, if poults aren't making it to adults!!

 

[MidTennFisher]

Can someone post that study again about the delayed opener and breeding success?

 

[Bgoodman30]

Two weeks or 10 weeks, 2 birds or 4, open it late or open normal, none of that matters, if poults aren't making it to adults!!

PREACH!

 

[deerfever]

Can someone post that study again about the delayed opener and breeding success?

Go to season changes thread, very first post. I would post again if I knew how. Lol, here is a summary.

 

[megalomaniac]

Show me data proving this…I'm all ears

Show me the data delaying season by 2 weeks last year hurt hunting success. I'm all ears.

 

[deerhunter10]

Show me the data delaying season by 2 weeks last year hurt hunting success. I'm all ears.

It didn't best season I've ever seen. Even compared to 15 years ago with turkeys everywhere.

 

[deerhunter10]

I would assume they lost license sales and also the complaining that some people have done. Honestly they never even gave it a chance at all.
Out law decoys of all kinds out law killing Jake's outlaw any kind of fall seasons. I don't agree or understand going 2 to 3 for the limit either. I know a pile of people that tagged out every year when it was 4. Honestly with the way twra is going now we won't have to worry about turkeys in 10 or 15 years.

 

[TheLBLman]

Show me the data delaying season by 2 weeks last year hurt hunting success. I'm all ears.

There is no data showing this.
In fact, much of the "data" is flawed and misinterpreted.

The main reason more turkeys were killed last year is because nesting success had been above average the prior year (or two). That was just "luck". We had more turkeys last year, and we have more this year, for a combination of factors & luck.

The solution is not to go back to what was not working.

To those concerned about male decoys, the only effective way to reduce their effective use is by delaying the season opening. Even if made illegal, male decoys would be used by those wanting to use them, with less repercussion than those currently killing turkeys over bait.

The delayed season opening also reduces the attraction of illegal baiting.

 

[muddyboots]

All sucks. Just give me April. 1 or 2 birds. Focus on the egg stealers and it all be fixed.

 

[muddyboots]

This years harvest may scare them.

 

[deerhunter10]

This years harvest may scare them.

It will scare then. Pile of 2 year olds from last year. A ton of Jake's last year.