New Article on CWD by Dr. Alan Houston, Ames Plantation

[TheLBLman]

Among many TN sportsmen, we're seeing waterfowl hunting quickly replace their former deer hunting. Those who still want to do a lot of deer hunting are just doing so more in other states where their chances of taking an older buck with larger antlers are much higher than in TN.

Most of us Tennesseans are not currently in a CWD county, so the issue becomes when (not if) your particular county will be designated a CWD county. If you already border an existing CWD county, this is probably much sooner than later. Personally, I have long term been doing the majority of my TN deer hunting in Stewart & Obion counties, both of which now border a CWD county. So I see my personal days of being a "hunter-manager" in TN soon coming to an end once the CWD regulations hit my personal hunting areas.

CWD regs have already adversely effected me personally last year in that I had 4 of 5 hunting buddies cancel their plans to hunt with me in Henry County because CWD was found there. In times past, pre-CWD, no more than 1 or 2 of these friends would have not gone for whatever reason.

And to make it worse, had we killed a deer, it was then illegal to transport that deer beyond the boundaries of Henry County, and none of us lived in Henry County! As an aside, I've long term previously used Yoder Brothers in Henry County to process my deer. They are now closed for deer processing, and hunters, particularly those traveling from East TN to West TN, are going to find increasing challenges in processing & transporting any deer they may kill.

 

[Bucket]

those traveling from East TN to West TN, are going to find increasing challenges in processing & transporting any deer they may kill

That's my situation, and it's frustrating. Hunting our family farm in Chester Co. and living in Putnam got exponentially more complicated, and it's decreased my desire to hunt there, and to do further wildlife management projects like TSI, food plots, etc.

 

[Headhunter]

My question is how has deer hunting changed and has the number of mature or larger antlered bucks killed changed in states that have had CWD for a long time? I could be wrong and I do not know the correct answer, but as far as I know, I have not seen anything anywhere saying that is has changed. As far as anyone posting, saying doom and gloom, etc. about deer hunting because of CWD, if you don't want to kill deer anymore and eat the meat, then let me have access. Until something changes, for example humans can contract CWD from deer and die or have bad things happen, I am not changing anything about deer hunting and for the most part I will ignore most anything said or posted unless it says something bad is happening, meaning something other than what has been happening since CWD was first discovered in the 1960's.

 

[DoubleRidge]

You'll have deer. They just won't live to be very old. Likely SOL if you're a horn hunter.

I know that's what we're being told....but southern Iowa and northern Missouri...in the counties identified in the article....I can promise you those counties produce bucks that meet most people's "trophy goals"....not to mention Kansas, Nebraska and a massive area in Canada....many of these areas have been producing trophy deer for decades....with CWD being detected....in reality...in TN...there are allot of bucks that will meet or satisfy most hunters goals at age 3½ and certainly at age 4½....so I'm not sure CWD is the end of hunting for mature deer with above average antlers.....at least it hasn't been the end in those areas which have had CWD for decade's....but don't get me wrong...I wish there was zero CWD...and obviously it's not a good thing for the herd....i just don't buy the theory that deer hunting or having an opportunity to hunt mature deer is over....and I certainly will not participate in the slaughter of every deer I see in an effort to prevent the spread when were being told there is nothing we can do to stop it.

 

[TheLBLman]

....with CWD being detected....in reality...in TN...there are allot of bucks that will meet or satisfy most hunters goals at age 3½ and certainly at age 4½....so I'm not sure CWD is the end of hunting for mature deer with above average antlers.....

The problem is not so much the CWD as it is the regulatory changes that have been made in TN in the CWD counties.

Whether CWD is an issue or not, when the buck limit is dramatically increased, when centerfire rifles are suddenly allowed during what has long-term been an "archery" season segment, when a "trophy" velvet hunt (also with centerfire rifles, not archery) is added in August, when the season's end gets extended . . . . .
we suddenly see a huge increase in the buck harvest among the hunters?

For before mentioned reasons, the hunters are not going to kill many female deer (even although legal). But with the TWRA's CWD regs, war has been declared on bucks.

After a couple years, you're simply not going to see many bucks living to 3 1/2 or older with these kind of harvest regs in these TN counties. Again, this is due to regulations more than CWD.

The extreme regulatory reactions to CWD in TN seem remarkably similar to the federal government's extreme regulatory edicts with covid in 2020-2021?

 

[TheLBLman]

If there are good numbers of 3 1/2 & older bucks living in TN's covid, I mean CWD-designated counties,
it will only be because most hunters have quit deer hunting?

Otherwise, we're back to the 1990's kill every walking buck mentality with the regs?

 

[DoubleRidge]

The problem is not so much the CWD as it is the regulatory changes that have been made in TN in the CWD counties.

Whether CWD is an issue or not, when the buck limit is dramatically increased, when centerfire rifles are suddenly allowed during what has long-term been an "archery" season segment, when a "trophy" velvet hunt (also with centerfire rifles, not archery) is added in August, when the season's end gets extended . . . . .
we suddenly see a huge increase in the buck harvest among the hunters?

For before mentioned reasons, the hunters are not going to kill many female deer (even although legal). But with the TWRA's CWD regs, war has been declared on bucks.

After a couple years, you're simply not going to see many bucks living to 3 1/2 or older with these kind of harvest regs in these TN counties. Again, this is due to regulations more than CWD.

The extreme regulatory reactions to CWD in TN seem remarkably similar to the federal government's extreme regulatory edicts with covid in 2020-2021?

So it sounds like the CWD regulations could be more detrimental to deer hunting as we know it than CWD itself.

 

[DoubleRidge]

If there are good numbers of 3 1/2 & older bucks living in TN's covid, I mean CWD-designated counties,
it will only be because most hunters have quit deer hunting?

Otherwise, we're back to the 1990's kill every walking buck mentality with the regs?

I never understood the mentality of killing as many deer as possible to prevent deer from dieing of CWD? Reduce or slow the spread...yeah I understand the concept....but ultimately let's kill as many deer as possible....to prevent them from dieing of CWD?? Really??....I believe others states have given up on this approach...I know when hunting some of the western states that have had CWD for decades...when talking to locals you don't often hear mention of CWD.....again....I wish CWD wasn't here....but I'm going to take the glass is half full approach....manage the habitat best we can for all wildlife... enjoy the process of land management....hunt hard.... enjoy the outdoors....and nature will take it's course.

 

[TheLBLman]

DoubleRidge, the current TWRA CWD regs are not about killing all the deer possible,
so much as they are about killing all the bucks possible.

Although female deer remain legal, fewer than ever are going to be killed with these regs, which then contribute to a very unbalanced buck:doe ratio, and a very young buck age structure.

And just to be clear, I'm not saying everything about changing the regs is "bad", but most the resulting implications certainly aren't "good". For example, not being able to cross county lines with a deer (from a CWD county) not only causes many hunters to not go hunt those counties, but it's also putting many deer processors out of business, further contributing to the reasons the hunters stop deer hunting there.

If a certain threshold in hunters not deer hunting is reached, we will actually see deer populations explode in the CWD counties (at least at some point). But it will be a deer population consisting of mostly female deer and young bucks, something very akin to what was in TN "statewide" in the 1990's.

No, not the end of the world, but many of us older deer hunters have better options in other places, including just shifting over to waterfowl hunting, and/or doing our deer hunting in other states. As to what few younger hunters in TN might have been taking our places (as we die out), fewer of those younger people are even going to become hunters period, much less avid deer hunters, at least not in a TN CWD-designated county.

 

[DoubleRidge]

DoubleRidge, the current TWRA CWD regs are not about killing all the deer possible,
so much as they are about killing all the bucks possible.

Although female deer remain legal, fewer than ever are going to be killed with these regs, which then contribute to a very unbalanced buck:doe ratio, and a very young buck age structure.

And just to be clear, I'm not saying everything about changing the regs is "bad", but most the resulting implications certainly aren't "good". For example, not being able to cross county lines with a deer (from a CWD county) not only causes many hunters to not go hunt those counties, but it's also putting many deer processors out of business, further contributing to the reasons the hunters stop deer hunting there.

If a certain threshold in hunters not deer hunting is reached, we will actually see deer populations explode in the CWD counties (at least at some point). But it will be a deer population consisting of mostly female deer and young bucks, something very akin to what was in TN "statewide" in the 1990's.

No, not the end of the world, but many of us older deer hunters have better options in other places, including just shifting over to waterfowl hunting, and/or doing our deer hunting in other states. As to what few younger hunters in TN might have been taking our places (as we die out), fewer of those younger people are even going to become hunters period, much less avid deer hunters, at least not in a TN CWD-designated county.

I see clearly what your saying and agree that most of the resulting implications of the CWD regulations certainly aren't "good".....and again...It sounds like the CWD regulations could be more detrimental to deer hunting as we know it than CWD itself.

 

[knightrider]

Just to sum it up in reality the twra's stupid regulations and gross miss handling of cwd is going to be far more detrimental to the deer herd than cwd ever would have or will be if there had never been a stupid made up test performed

 

[fairchaser]

Only time will tell if the current regulations will help or hurt the deer herd in the long run. I hear a lot of arm chair quarterbacking. There would be universal praise from deer hunters on the east end of the state if a cure for CWD was discovered thanking TWRA for slowing the spread. Is it inevitable that it spreads across the state? No. What would happen if the state chose to put their head in the sand while zombie deer roamed the state. With no testing available, who would eat a single deer? A cry would come from all deer hunters, Why doesn't somebody do something? One of the original discovers of CWD said to do more, go farther and exceed what is reasonable to rid CWD. The deer herd will come back, but CWD once started can't be easily removed. I don't pass judgment on every regulation but I commend the state on their commitment and hard work.

 

[Jcalder]

Only time will tell if the current regulations will help or hurt the deer herd in the long run. I hear a lot of arm chair quarterbacking. There would be universal praise from deer hunters on the east end of the state if a cure for CWD was discovered thanking TWRA for slowing the spread. Is it inevitable that it spreads across the state? No. What would happen if the state chose to put their head in the sand while zombie deer roamed the state. With no testing available, who would eat a single deer? A cry would come from all deer hunters, Why doesn't somebody do something? One of the original discovers of CWD said to do more, go farther and exceed what is reasonable to rid CWD. The deer herd will come back, but CWD once started can't be easily removed. I don't pass judgment on every regulation but I commend the state on their commitment and hard work.

Where's all these zombie deer? Especially in the states that's had cwd for years. Another thought, with twra and their head in the sand, when cwd was first "discovered" in Tennessee there wasn't just a handful of cases. There was several. Enough to believe it had been there several years. So how many "zombie deer" have been eaten by those folks in the hot zone. I will agree with the others, the current regulations will by far do more damage to the heard than cwd will. Cwd itself won't make the heard extinct. Doubt it even makes a meaningful dent in the population. I'd even go so far as to say the actual number of deer that die just because of cwd is so small it wouldn't be traceable. There's so many other threats to a deers life, most deer will die of something else before they make the cut.

 

[DoubleRidge]

Only time will tell if the current regulations will help or hurt the deer herd in the long run. I hear a lot of arm chair quarterbacking. There would be universal praise from deer hunters on the east end of the state if a cure for CWD was discovered thanking TWRA for slowing the spread. Is it inevitable that it spreads across the state? No. What would happen if the state chose to put their head in the sand while zombie deer roamed the state. With no testing available, who would eat a single deer? A cry would come from all deer hunters, Why doesn't somebody do something? One of the original discovers of CWD said to do more, go farther and exceed what is reasonable to rid CWD. The deer herd will come back, but CWD once started can't be easily removed. I don't pass judgment on every regulation but I commend the state on their commitment and hard work.

True...only time will tell....and I agree that you can never make everyone happy....but I am thankful the choice wasnt to "do more, go farther and exceed what is reasonable to rid CWD"
My goodness..what?
The same people say that CWD will never be eradicated? And other states tried the disaster of eradicating the herd.....destroying the herd to destroy or rid CWD hasn't worked....Also there is a difference in armchair quarterbacking and looking at (and hunting in) other states that have been dealing with CWD for decades.

 

[SEC]

Buzzards aren't circling unit cwd………..

 

[fairchaser]

Where's all these zombie deer? Especially in the states that's had cwd for years. Another thought, with twra and their head in the sand, when cwd was first "discovered" in Tennessee there wasn't just a handful of cases. There was several. Enough to believe it had been there several years. So how many "zombie deer" have been eaten by those folks in the hot zone. I will agree with the others, the current regulations will by far do more damage to the heard than cwd will. Cwd itself won't make the heard extinct. Doubt it even makes a meaningful dent in the population. I'd even go so far as to say the actual number of deer that die just because of cwd is so small it wouldn't be traceable. There's so many other threats to a deers life, most deer will die of something else before they make the cut.

I do agree that you will not likely see that many zombie deer walking around drooling. But, that doesn't mean CWD isn't killing them. They are more likely to succumb to predation or end up dead on the road. The impact is the same! Hunting in the heart of CWD I've witnessed the impact in real time on the landscape. It's here, it's real and it has an impact on the herd especially the older bucks. There simply aren't as many. I agree with LBLman that younger bucks are being killed too because of the increase in buck tags, but the older buck population was declining before the regs changed. As regards consumption of infected deer, I don't know a single hunter on Ames that says they are eating them anyway. Even if they might eat it, they won't bring it hone to their families.

 

[AlabamaSwamper]

So it sounds like the CWD regulations could be more detrimental to deer hunting as we know it than CWD itself.

Bingo

 

[AlabamaSwamper]

I know in Nebraska the locals and biologists don't seem to care either way. They kill the deer, they eat the deer. They worry about EHD because it will kill a bunch of deer. I've seen it there but they recovered quickly.

They didn't even test in my unit last year. That's how concerned they appear to be

 

[BSK]

And how did "flattening the curve" (slowing down the spread of the disease) help those states that tried it with Covid? What did their infection rate end up being compared to those that did not?

 

[AT Hiker]

And how did "flattening the curve" (slowing down the spread of the disease) help those states that tried it with Covid? What did their infection rate end up being compared to those that did not?

Deer gonna be running around with mask and CWD vaccine cards before we know it.