Nesting data

[PickettSFHunter]

How on track is the KY harvest this year? Half the limit, later opener.


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[Southern Sportsman]

Here's something I found while digging around....


In an attempt to understand the cause for spontaneous infertility in female turkeys, sera were obtained from a flock suffering this condition. These sera, from hens of known fertility, were tested for anti-fertility actions by incubating semen in them. After incubation, semen was inseminated into unrelated recipient hens. In the first of two experiments, semen incubated in sera from high fertility hens (average 89%) produced a fertility level of 72.7% over an 8 week period while semen incubated in sera from sterile hens significantly reduced fertility to 52.3%. In a second experiment sera from sterile donors again caused a significant reduction in the fertilizing ability of sperm (56.3% for sera from sterile hens vs. 73.5% for sera from high fertility hens).

These results indicate the presence of a factor(s) in the sera of sterile hens which may be causally related to their infertility.

I googled but got nothing. What is sera?

 

[woodsman04]

Chickens and yard birds will still lay eggs and nest if not bred, not sure if wild turkeys do this or not though.

Not sure on how much studying on turkeys has been done by the TWRA. Seems like now is the time they are doing things, but I don't know for sure. It may have always been 38% of hens didn't nest but they didn't know other wise because they never tried hard enough. Just saying, don't know that for sure.




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[woodsman04]

Another piece of the puzzle I believe has been missed regarding our statewide turkey population decline:

Collateral Damage

Let me explain.

Every time one of us fires at a longbeard,
there is risk, often unknown, of hitting a hen in the background.
Sometimes it is a nesting hen, maybe 75 yards away, taking a pellet to the head,
and we are never aware our shot that killed a longbeard, also killed a hen.

This particular risk, whatever it is, has significantly increased in just the past few years,
for two reasons. First, our turkey limit increased. That means more shooting.
Next, we have more hunters shooting longer range loads.

Should a single pellet hit a sitting hen in the head,
at how many yards would it be lethal?

Even if not lethal, the wound could cause some bleeding,
which in turn could bring predators to the hen.
Doesn't take much.

But "collateral damage" may be more the result of hunting activities than from shooting.
Our hunting often disrupts turkey breeding, activity leading to it, even nesting.
(Other human activities also do this.)

Please don't think for a second I want to sound like an anti-hunter,
but I do want to protect and enhance the resource,
and my concern is too much of a good thing may have become akin to us killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

There are legitimate reasons the KY statewide turkey season opens 2 weeks later than TN's,
and it's not just about latitude.

Possible, and I bet it happens a few times every year, but no way this is the main reason for decline.


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[woodsman04]

Interesting. During my brainstorming sessions trying to figure out what in the world is happening with some of the localized populations that I am in tune with, I have often wondered if their is ANYTHING going on in the wild that is making some hens infertile. This is for areas where I KNOW FOR CERTAIN habitat has changed very little over the last 15 years, and chicken litter has not been introduced due to very little farming in the immediate area.

Habitat does not go unchanged for 15 years. If nothing is going on in the habitat you are around, that means the trees in your woods are getting bigger and blocking out more of the understory and providing less nesting cover. If fields are still being kept in ag or bush hogged and the woods are allowed to age nesting cover is reduced drastically over 15 years.


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Unless the habitat is being maintained in a suitable way for turkeys, impossible for it to to go un changed for that long of a time period. Mature hardwoods that just keep growing with no young successional growth is not nesting areas.


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[woodsman04]

I've been wondering about this. I often times even at this time a year see hens flocked up, with no Tom. I wonder if they have been bred, but I read that once bred hens break up and become elusive in the nesting stage at least for parts of the day. Last Friday I saw a Tom and 5 hens. Saturday He gobbled twice and they went the other way. Sunday I'm pretty sure I heard a shot right at first light up where they hang out... Now I have 6 hens and no tom using my property daily. It's like it is early spring and they are just feeding through and feeding all day. I have gone at different times and they are just in the area eating.

Since 2012 (the year I bought my property) or 2013, I have not seen a hen with poults. I did see Jakes through, so somewhere a hen hatched eggs, but haven't seen any this year.

I have often wondered if the Hens are infertile. The last two years I had 8-10 toms and probably 30 hens (most looked full grown), so about 1 tom to every 3-4 hens. There is no way I shouldn't have a ton of turkey unless they are all getting their nests raided. The odds of that are unlikely, so I have been wondering if they are just not nesting.

When I wrote the TWRA biologist he said, they think part of the turkeys declining is that the population is declining to carrying capacity after the restocking efforts. I wonder if this has something to do with them not nesting (if that is the case)? Though I question this, because, I believe restocking was over and done with in the early 2000's and I believe the population continued to grow for years after that, now it is declining. If it was too high after restocking it would have declined almost immediately, but the population was booming through about 2013. Then it started to decline.

The odds of having all four hens nest being raided is more likely to happen than not to happen.

And I have heard the carrying capacity issue for a while by other biologist. And I believe t has some merit, just no one cares to hear that.


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[woodsman04]

When I wrote the TWRA biologist he said, they think part of the turkeys declining is that the population is declining to carrying capacity after the restocking efforts.

I think you make a good point regarding carrying capacity. In the absence of intervention, nesting and poult rearing habitat is fixed for any given property. if turkeys have expanded to fill all suitable habitat devoted to producing more turkeys, the population stops growing. This doesn't address the dramatic decline that some have witnessed, but might be part of the answer to replenishing birds year over year.

A goal on my farm was to make it a turkey factory which meant creating as much poult production and brood rearing habitat as possible...in other words increase carrying capacity. Combined with killing nest raiders, I've seen a steady increase as the birds have expanded to fill the newly created habitat. Again, this doesn't explain the decline but may certainly be part of the solution.

I do not think habitat that isn't suitable for nesting would not have an immediate impact from one year of a decline. Think about it, the birds try to nest, and are unsuccessful. Then the birds just begin to die of old age and predator and hunter mortality. Can be slower decline than you think.


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[megalomaniac]

Here's something I found while digging around....


In an attempt to understand the cause for spontaneous infertility in female turkeys, sera were obtained from a flock suffering this condition. These sera, from hens of known fertility, were tested for anti-fertility actions by incubating semen in them. After incubation, semen was inseminated into unrelated recipient hens. In the first of two experiments, semen incubated in sera from high fertility hens (average 89%) produced a fertility level of 72.7% over an 8 week period while semen incubated in sera from sterile hens significantly reduced fertility to 52.3%. In a second experiment sera from sterile donors again caused a significant reduction in the fertilizing ability of sperm (56.3% for sera from sterile hens vs. 73.5% for sera from high fertility hens).

These results indicate the presence of a factor(s) in the sera of sterile hens which may be causally related to their infertility.

Interesting.... but the question is WHY???

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[Bone Collector]

I've been wondering about this. I often times even at this time a year see hens flocked up, with no Tom.

This is almost always an indicator there are no gobblers in the area, they have been killed. Now sometimes jennies will flock up and toms will ignore and not join them. IF there is another gobbler without hens around, he might find them and successfully fertilize them. Hens who want to be bred can get very vocal calling for a gobbler.

That's just it. In the past, they would do the same thing and would be vocal on the limb and on the ground. This year I can't hear them on the limb and one morning they were roosted right by me. I heard there wing flaps when they came off. They are not yelping too much and not cutting at all. I heard a shot right at day break at least it sounded like a shot 2 Sundays ago, and my heart sunk. I assume they limb lifted him based on the time. For years i was definitely the only person that hunted turkeys in about a 500-600 acre radius these birds spend their time and now undeveloped land has been developed and I think there are some new hunters in the area. The birds always spent more time up that way and I am wondering if my 8-10 toms have all been shot over the last two seasons and the poor hatches have resulted in no new recruitment. OF COURSE I have no way to confirm or deny my suspicion.

 

[Bone Collector]

I've been wondering about this. I often times even at this time a year see hens flocked up, with no Tom. I wonder if they have been bred, but I read that once bred hens break up and become elusive in the nesting stage at least for parts of the day. Last Friday I saw a Tom and 5 hens. Saturday He gobbled twice and they went the other way. Sunday I'm pretty sure I heard a shot right at first light up where they hang out... Now I have 6 hens and no tom using my property daily. It's like it is early spring and they are just feeding through and feeding all day. I have gone at different times and they are just in the area eating.

Since 2012 (the year I bought my property) or 2013, I have not seen a hen with poults. I did see Jakes through, so somewhere a hen hatched eggs, but haven't seen any this year.

I have often wondered if the Hens are infertile. The last two years I had 8-10 toms and probably 30 hens (most looked full grown), so about 1 tom to every 3-4 hens. There is no way I shouldn't have a ton of turkey unless they are all getting their nests raided. The odds of that are unlikely, so I have been wondering if they are just not nesting.

When I wrote the TWRA biologist he said, they think part of the turkeys declining is that the population is declining to carrying capacity after the restocking efforts. I wonder if this has something to do with them not nesting (if that is the case)? Though I question this, because, I believe restocking was over and done with in the early 2000's and I believe the population continued to grow for years after that, now it is declining. If it was too high after restocking it would have declined almost immediately, but the population was booming through about 2013. Then it started to decline.

The odds of having all four hens nest being raided is more likely to happen than not to happen.

And I have heard the carrying capacity issue for a while by other biologist. And I believe t has some merit, just no one cares to hear that.


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I don't know that I agree with that. If the odds a nest is raided is 100% the turkey would be extinct in some areas. Sure it is possible in a given year that a group of hens has all their nests raided, but not 5-6 years in a row. Also with my own two eyes, I have counted around 10 toms and 30 hens in the area (when they were flocked up) the odds of all 30 losing their nests for the last 5-6 years is highly unlikely. I know some poults have hatched, because I have seen jakes and jenny's, but not many (2-3 a year). However this year the # is 0. Also my power line is only mowed at one end. It is high grass the rest of the way. many properties in the area have high grass areas that have not been mowed since I've owned the place (2012). Last the old cattle farm that is now a brewery, is still open up front (mowed), but now the back is high grass a new development. I also pile cedar when i cut and when I cut a larger tree with a V in it I cover the V such that something can get in and out but it is covered, in hopes that hens will nest. I have never found a turkey nest on my property. My point is there is plenty of nesting habitat and there are still hens the area and last year and earlier for sure 8-10 toms, so where are all the poults... My guess the hens are not nesting and the handful that are may be getting raided, but there is no way the hens didn't get bred last year and the year before, when there was about 3-4 hens per tom.

Carrying capacity may have something to do with it, and that may be natures way of working it out, causing hens not to breed or nest.

 

[woodsman04]

I've been wondering about this. I often times even at this time a year see hens flocked up, with no Tom. I wonder if they have been bred, but I read that once bred hens break up and become elusive in the nesting stage at least for parts of the day. Last Friday I saw a Tom and 5 hens. Saturday He gobbled twice and they went the other way. Sunday I'm pretty sure I heard a shot right at first light up where they hang out... Now I have 6 hens and no tom using my property daily. It's like it is early spring and they are just feeding through and feeding all day. I have gone at different times and they are just in the area eating.

Since 2012 (the year I bought my property) or 2013, I have not seen a hen with poults. I did see Jakes through, so somewhere a hen hatched eggs, but haven't seen any this year.

I have often wondered if the Hens are infertile. The last two years I had 8-10 toms and probably 30 hens (most looked full grown), so about 1 tom to every 3-4 hens. There is no way I shouldn't have a ton of turkey unless they are all getting their nests raided. The odds of that are unlikely, so I have been wondering if they are just not nesting.

When I wrote the TWRA biologist he said, they think part of the turkeys declining is that the population is declining to carrying capacity after the restocking efforts. I wonder if this has something to do with them not nesting (if that is the case)? Though I question this, because, I believe restocking was over and done with in the early 2000's and I believe the population continued to grow for years after that, now it is declining. If it was too high after restocking it would have declined almost immediately, but the population was booming through about 2013. Then it started to decline.

The odds of having all four hens nest being raided is more likely to happen than not to happen.

And I have heard the carrying capacity issue for a while by other biologist. And I believe t has some merit, just no one cares to hear that.


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I don't know that I agree with that. If the odds a nest is raided is 100% the turkey would be extinct in some areas. Sure it is possible in a given year that a group of hens has all their nests raided, but not 5-6 years in a row. Also with my own two eyes, I have counted around 10 toms and 30 hens in the area (when they were flocked up) the odds of all 30 losing their nests for the last 5-6 years is highly unlikely. I know some poults have hatched, because I have seen jakes and jenny's, but not many (2-3 a year). However this year the # is 0. Also my power line is only mowed at one end. It is high grass the rest of the way. many properties in the area have high grass areas that have not been mowed since I've owned the place (2012). Last the old cattle farm that is now a brewery, is still open up front (mowed), but now the back is high grass a new development. I also pile cedar when i cut and when I cut a larger tree with a V in it I cover the V such that something can get in and out but it is covered, in hopes that hens will nest. I have never found a turkey nest on my property. My point is there is plenty of nesting habitat and there are still hens the area and last year and earlier for sure 8-10 toms, so where are all the poults... My guess the hens are not nesting and the handful that are may be getting raided, but there is no way the hens didn't get bred last year and the year before, when there was about 3-4 hens per tom.

Carrying capacity may have something to do with it, and that may be natures way of working it out, causing hens not to breed or nest.

It is very possible that If you have four hens in that small area that every one of them is raised at least once if not twice during a nesting season.

Think if there were no nest raiders. Turkeys would be everywhere. I don't know data, but it seems like there is about a 7-10% of successful hatches, with only one or two of those poults making it to September.


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[TheLBLman]

Another piece of the puzzle I believe has been missed regarding our statewide turkey population decline:

Collateral Damage

Every time one of us fires at a longbeard,
there is risk, often unknown, of hitting a hen in the background.
Sometimes it is a nesting hen, maybe 75 yards away, taking a pellet to the head,
and we are never aware our shot that killed a longbeard, also killed a hen.

Below quote from REN is actually from another thread,
but kinda adds to the premise of "collateral damage" . . . .

was out looking at 8 acres to build a house on today, the easement out to the property is 50 yds wide and is barely over ankle height in pasture grass. had a hen in a tiny dip on a nest and flush when I was about 7 yds away and scared the crap out of me.
Literally never saw her and still amazes me how low they can get in the wide open and you still cant see them.