Harvest Report Data!

AT Hiker

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Currently $68 for TN residents to hunt small game, big game with gun (turkey AND deer), and fish annually.

Currently $214.50 for nonresident to hunt 7 days for turkey only (fishing not included in those 7 days)

$305 for NR annual license (turkey plus deer). Does NOT include fishing.

NRs pay 5x as much as residents to hunt turkeys and fish TN annually. Is that enough?
I pay $335 just to hunt deer in KY and my credit card just got hit for $802.20 for a deer combo permit in MT.
If we got it, they will pay. Landowner or not, you have to take care of your residents. It's the public trust aspect of wildlife management.
Can we do other things besides increase fees, sure…I'm game for that too. Should we treat NR landowners separately? Yep, because they pay for a resource that is relevant (habitat).

*I also don't mind paying more as a resident. Even as a lifetime license holder, up charge me if the resource needs the help.
 

poorhunter

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How are my license fees helping the turkey management on my land or my neighbors land? I guess there are government programs out there for landowners, funded by licensing fees, to help them finance the management? Seems to me that it's up to property owners/hunters to manage the resource on their land not TWRA. TWRA manages less than 10% of the land in TN, and landowners manage the rest. Obviously a lot of private land isn't suitable for game/hunting but the vast majority of land needs to be privately managed and paid for by the landowners of the state, not by license fees.
 

AT Hiker

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How are my license fees helping the turkey management on my land or my neighbors land? I guess there are government programs out there for landowners, funded by licensing fees, to help them finance the management? Seems to me that it's up to property owners/hunters to manage the resource on their land not TWRA. TWRA manages less than 10% of the land in TN, and landowners manage the rest. Obviously a lot of private land isn't suitable for game/hunting but the vast majority of land needs to be privately managed and paid for by the landowners of the state, not by license fees.
Maybe some private landowners could pony up some coin and collaborate with other landowners to trap and restock turkeys in certain areas. Hire BSK consulting services to do a data collection and offer best practice, they could also hire a private security company to monitor poaching activity😛
 

poorhunter

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Maybe some private landowners could pony up some coin and collaborate with other landowners to trap and restock turkeys in certain areas. Hire BSK consulting services to do a data collection and offer best practice, they could also hire a private security company to monitor poaching activity😛
I hear ya;). I know that it was state agencies that reintroduced the wild turkey and was personally involved with that in Indiana. Hiring BSK (privately) would go a long long way in advancing good management for wildlife in the state for sure. The vast majority of trespassing/poaching problems are already handled by the landowner. I'm not advocating NO state involvement in turkey management, but putting the major onus onto the majority…the landowners and hunters. We need to take a lot more responsibility in management instead of just relying on TWRA who, while they do a good job, fall woefully short.
 

Buzzard Breath

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I hear ya;). I know that it was state agencies that reintroduced the wild turkey and was personally involved with that in Indiana. Hiring BSK (privately) would go a long long way in advancing good management for wildlife in the state for sure. The vast majority of trespassing/poaching problems are already handled by the landowner. I'm not advocating NO state involvement in turkey management, but putting the major onus onto the majority…the landowners and hunters. We need to take a lot more responsibility in management instead of just relying on TWRA who, while they do a good job, fall woefully short.
A lot of people don't know this, but TWRA will assist land owners in the management of their places. They just have to call.

 

paboom

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Tennessee
Rarely does giving the government more money make problems better. (That's not a political statement, just based on history)

I wish there was a silver bullet, but i think our problems are multi faceted.
 

poorhunter

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A lot of people don't know this, but TWRA will assist land owners in the management of their places. They just have to call.

Yep…I just don't think I should be going to government agencies and taxes to manage my own land. That link said most of the funding comes from the Farm Bill…more government subsidies. I think it's my responsibility, and I take that seriously.
 

AT Hiker

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Rarely does giving the government more money make problems better. (That's not a political statement, just based on history)

I wish there was a silver bullet, but i think our problems are multi faceted.
I dont think we should either, I also don't like getting 70% of our funding from NR. That sounds a lot like living pay check to pay check.
 

megalomaniac

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Mississippi
I pay $335 just to hunt deer in KY and my credit card just got hit for $802.20 for a deer combo permit in MT.
If we got it, they will pay. Landowner or not, you have to take care of your residents. It's the public trust aspect of wildlife management.
Can we do other things besides increase fees, sure…I'm game for that too. Should we treat NR landowners separately? Yep, because they pay for a resource that is relevant (habitat).

*I also don't mind paying more as a resident. Even as a lifetime license holder, up charge me if the resource needs the help.
I also don't mind paying for my licenses... but unfortunately, very little of that fee goes specifically to the wild turkey.

but the question is... WHY do we need higher license fees? Exactly where does the extra $$$ go? If raising license fees is simply to deter numbers of hunters, thereby reducing harvest for turkeys... well, then, we better take a long look at the way we hunt turkeys. If managed properly, hunting turkeys will produce zero net negative effect on the population. If hunting is hurting the turkey population, the season structure and what is allowed to be killed is at fault and needs to be fixed.

If raising license fees is to deter hunters to provide more quality hunting experiences (reduced pressure, less competition), then we are at the point where more public lands need to go to a draw/ quota system.

If the demand for TNs turkeys is TRULY there, going to statewide quota of 25,000 tags issued, with 80% going to residents and 20% going to NR, charging $100 per resident tag purchased and $1000 per NR tag purchased should be an easy sell... But I don't think there is THAT level of demand for turkeys... There are a few like me who would rather hunt turkeys than elk, moose, deer, etc... but most hunters prefer big game over birds, and are willing to spend much more on license fees for big game than turkeys.

And like REN said, there is a fine line balancing license fees with number of NR hunters.... but the majority of the biggest changes out west were caused by local outfitters... cutting DIY NR tags to virtually nothing in some states (NM for example), while increasing the number of tags allocated for NR contracting with an outfitter. Just shameful. Not enough turkey outfitters in TN for that type of lobbying to actually succeed I dont think, so that's a good thing.

The biggest problem TN is facing is the fact that the state now has one of the earliest opening dates in the US, only Hawaii, Florida, Mississippi, parts of Alabama and parts of GA open earlier. That makes TN the no1 state for travelling turkey hunters for the majority of the US, especially for those north and west.

But I think it will cycle... as populations decline and hunter numbers increase, eventually coming to TN will no longer be an enjoyable experience, and will cause hunter numbers to decline... which will allow populations to increase (if the changes are ever made in TN to reduce the impact hunting has on population... if the state doesn't do that, populations will likely never rebound in most parts of the state).
 

paboom

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Tennessee
I'm really torn on the quota road. On one hand, it will help control the total amount of birds taken and subsequently hunters. On the other hand, it will keep hunters in the woods longer than they do with the current structure which isn't good for the birds either. If they pony up the money for that tag, they will want to fill it. Now, they've already paid for it in their big game license and will cut out early and head to the lake. Selfishly, I'm glad to get past the first 2 weeks when most people call it quits. But I hunt 100% public land.

I'm certainly ok with pushing the season back a week or two and dropping it to 2 birds. As I've said before, that's not the solution, but it will go a long way to help while we figure out why poults aren't surviving.
 

Boll Weevil

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From a landowners perspective we've also got some responsibility here that I'm not sure quota/draw will address. Something like 97% of land holdings are private and I'd guess that also means 97% of the states turkeys live on private land. Quotas on public ground will help but if that applies to less than 5% of the turkey population not sure it's enough. Absolutely helps with public ground and out of staters though.
 

poorhunter

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From a landowners perspective we've also got some responsibility here that I'm not sure quota/draw will address. Something like 97% of land holdings are private and I'd guess that also means 97% of the states turkeys live on private land. Quotas on public ground will help but if that applies to less than 5% of the turkey population not sure it's enough. Absolutely helps with public ground and out of staters though.
Landowners have way more responsibility than the state does, no matter the season length, limits, or quotas. It's not up to the state, but the landowner/hunter. Sure, the state can give guidance and advice, but it's up to us to manage the resource not them.
 

megalomaniac

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Mississippi
Landowners have way more responsibility than the state does, no matter the season length, limits, or quotas. It's not up to the state, but the landowner/hunter. Sure, the state can give guidance and advice, but it's up to us to manage the resource not them.
Agreed completely. My 3 trips up this year hunting I was running DP traps each evening around the houses and barns removing nuisance coons and skunks. Pulling soil samples for upcoming wildlife plots, etc, etc.

Every turkey hunter needs to put back more than they take. And if everyone did that, I'm sure the birds would be in better shape than they are now.
 

AT Hiker

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I also don't mind paying for my licenses... but unfortunately, very little of that fee goes specifically to the wild turkey.

but the question is... WHY do we need higher license fees? Exactly where does the extra $$$ go? If raising license fees is simply to deter numbers of hunters, thereby reducing harvest for turkeys... well, then, we better take a long look at the way we hunt turkeys. If managed properly, hunting turkeys will produce zero net negative effect on the population. If hunting is hurting the turkey population, the season structure and what is allowed to be killed is at fault and needs to be fixed.

If raising license fees is to deter hunters to provide more quality hunting experiences (reduced pressure, less competition), then we are at the point where more public lands need to go to a draw/ quota system.

If the demand for TNs turkeys is TRULY there, going to statewide quota of 25,000 tags issued, with 80% going to residents and 20% going to NR, charging $100 per resident tag purchased and $1000 per NR tag purchased should be an easy sell... But I don't think there is THAT level of demand for turkeys... There are a few like me who would rather hunt turkeys than elk, moose, deer, etc... but most hunters prefer big game over birds, and are willing to spend much more on license fees for big game than turkeys.

And like REN said, there is a fine line balancing license fees with number of NR hunters.... but the majority of the biggest changes out west were caused by local outfitters... cutting DIY NR tags to virtually nothing in some states (NM for example), while increasing the number of tags allocated for NR contracting with an outfitter. Just shameful. Not enough turkey outfitters in TN for that type of lobbying to actually succeed I dont think, so that's a good thing.

The biggest problem TN is facing is the fact that the state now has one of the earliest opening dates in the US, only Hawaii, Florida, Mississippi, parts of Alabama and parts of GA open earlier. That makes TN the no1 state for travelling turkey hunters for the majority of the US, especially for those north and west.

But I think it will cycle... as populations decline and hunter numbers increase, eventually coming to TN will no longer be an enjoyable experience, and will cause hunter numbers to decline... which will allow populations to increase (if the changes are ever made in TN to reduce the impact hunting has on population... if the state doesn't do that, populations will likely never rebound in most parts of the state).
I don't think we need higher fees, my concern is TWRA pushes season back and lowers the limit then TN might not be to appealing anymore, then we might have to do something to make up those funds, maybe not.
Or, my importantly, is TWRA not doing much because they are afraid the state might loose its appeal?

We are beyond needing quotas on public lands here.
 

Levee Jumper

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In terms of hunting public ground solely, I would just assume everyone shoot the piss out of them until we are at Arkansas levels. If that is what it will take to get hunting pressure back to a reasonable amount in Tennessee, I'm all for it. Jakes, bearded hens, hell ground check them all, its better than 4-6 sets of Arkansas/Mississippi tags at the gate every day of first couple weeks of season.
 

Buzzard Breath

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In terms of hunting public ground solely, I would just assume everyone shoot the piss out of them until we are at Arkansas levels. If that is what it will take to get hunting pressure back to a reasonable amount in Tennessee, I'm all for it. Jakes, bearded hens, hell ground check them all, its better than 4-6 sets of Arkansas/Mississippi tags at the gate every day of first couple weeks of season.
You aren't alone. I've had that same discussion with another tndeer member on multiple occasions. It's so bad around here that if I can't get away from middle TN to hunt, I'd rather not turkey hunt at all.
 

catman529

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Franklin TN
I've mentioned it before but it's worth mentioning again. Careful what you wish for on limiting NR hunters because NR hunters make up approx 70% of the budgeted funds. That's a lot of money slated for resident use and upkeep of public lands. You reduce that by 30-40% that's a huge loss in revenue and residents are the ones that will feel that.

Again not debating one way or the other but just make sure you understand where the money comes from that we all benefit from and then form your opinions from that. I fully understand both sides of the coin so I don't know what the answer is.
Yup this needs to not be overlooked. It's a balance between too many NR hunters and not enough funds.

I hear it all the time, "it's all about the money." Well yes it is all about the money. It costs money to manage the resource, nothing is free. Everyone cried when license cost went up. But those same people cry when there's not enough game wardens to crack down on their local poaching problem, or their local WMA isn't kept up as well as it should be. Everything costs money, and TWRA doesn't get money from the state general fund, so they're a step behind other states in that regard. A turkey stamp is a great idea to direct more funds toward turkeys. Mossy Oak is now selling a stamp that is not state specific, but I'd support a state turkey stamp as well. It is all about the money. More money for conservation means more studies on turkeys to find answers to problems, more habitat improvement for private and public lands, more budget to purchase land for WMAs, etc.
 

TheLBLman

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Jun 12, 2002
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Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
As far as replacing the lost revenue of losing some non-resident turkey hunters . . . . .
Easy Fix!

There are far more non-resident recreational boaters and non-resident fishermen!
A little increase there would go a long way?

Another thing:

Just because there could be a significant decrease in non-resident turkey hunters does not necessarily translate into a comparable decrease in non-resident license sales to these same people. Many of these non-resident turkey hunters are already coming to TN for lots of other reasons, including boating, fishing, and other hunting.

But by opening the season a week or two later, many of these simply would choose other states for their early season turkey hunting, and still turkey hunt in TN, albeit later in April, when less harm is done to ongoing turkey populations.
 

TheLBLman

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Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
Speaking of non-resident license revenue, why do you think they created an August deer hunt in TN ahead of all other states?

This was for the primary purpose of creating more non-resident big-game license sales.

But many buying a license for this August "velvet" hunt quickly figured out this same license also covers TN turkey hunting, and TN opens way earlier than their home state.

Could it be that the creation of the velvet hunt has as much to do with the influx of non-resident turkey hunters as any other factor?
 

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