BSK
Well-Known Member
I would love to study the differences in areas where bucks do and do not move midday. Is there some common factor driving this, because I know too many hunters who have had their best mature buck experiences midday.
Mid day movement of mature bucks?
- Thread starter fairchaser
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BSK
Well-Known Member
I can extract the data just for middle-aged bucks (2 1/2 and 3 1/2), but the below graph is the same information for all bucks 2 1/2 or older (including mature bucks). Notice how it is not a sudden drop in photographs as soon as daylight arrives like it was for mature bucks only. It is a nice slow progression downwards to a low point around 1-2 PM, and then a steady rise to sunset.
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TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Just to add something many haven't thought about:
Our trail cams are less sensitive, less likely to get pics of what's moving across in front to them, in mid-day vs any other time of day.
When I do all day sits, I often see deer walk close enough in front of a cam, that, that cam "should" get his pic. Yet the cam often doesn't. I also see a more random movement pattern during mid-day, such as an older buck doing more scent checking, and his travel can be more influenced by wind than established trails, scrapes, or anything else.
At night, no wind, a buck may need to stick his nose in a scrape to determine what other deer has recently visited. Mid-day, he may just walk 40 yds downwind, get no closer, and our trail cams simply fail to get his pic. Yet he was there, moving, mid-day.
There is often something magical beginning around mid-morning, when the wind starts picking up a little, just enough to rattle those beech leaves, just right to make rattling beech leaves sound a lot like walking deer. Bedded deer then get up and start walking too. Amazing how often I see this.
Our trail cams are less sensitive, less likely to get pics of what's moving across in front to them, in mid-day vs any other time of day.
When I do all day sits, I often see deer walk close enough in front of a cam, that, that cam "should" get his pic. Yet the cam often doesn't. I also see a more random movement pattern during mid-day, such as an older buck doing more scent checking, and his travel can be more influenced by wind than established trails, scrapes, or anything else.
At night, no wind, a buck may need to stick his nose in a scrape to determine what other deer has recently visited. Mid-day, he may just walk 40 yds downwind, get no closer, and our trail cams simply fail to get his pic. Yet he was there, moving, mid-day.
There is often something magical beginning around mid-morning, when the wind starts picking up a little, just enough to rattle those beech leaves, just right to make rattling beech leaves sound a lot like walking deer. Bedded deer then get up and start walking too. Amazing how often I see this.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Except I've had 25+ years of experimenting with camera locations. I've put them in every type of terrain funnel, fence gap, and movement pattern I can think of, and still no midday mature bucks. I think mature bucks do move midday, but they're holding to very thick cover. I do NOT put cameras in thick cover.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Actually, I often seen them running across fields and thru open hardwoods mid-day.
But their exact routes seem more random.
I will say I see more "running" from Point A to Point B, then they may stand and barely move for a while before then running from Point B to Point C. They also seem more inclined to "cut a diagonal", perhaps because they can see better during the day? And they "see" something in the distance (deer, tree, opening) so go straight towards it instead of following the "trail"?
I think our trail cams are more likely to miss the movement during midday than at any other time during a 24-hr period.
East TN Bowhunter
Well-Known Member
Killed my biggest buck this year at 10am and he had never been seen on camera in 2 years. The crazy part was he walked right in front of my camera 30 seconds before i killed him!
deerhunter10
Well-Known Member
I have zero data to prove it that I can show but with 30 miles between farms and a few different farms. It's cool to see how similar they can be and also how different. At home we have way more pressure then the farm 30 miles away and I will get more midday buck movement here vs there but in the evenings it is very common to see deer up on their feet around 245 to 3 vs at home it's the last 45 to 30 minutes before dark. The only difference is pressure. And a little more deer density at the farm 30 miles away but not much at all. Ag and food and cover are very similar.
Ridgeline300
Well-Known Member
I find it really interesting just how different hunter's experiences are in all aspects. Bullet performance, trail cam reliability, deer sightings, etc. Funny thing is that I personally don't get many trail cam pictures midday but I have killed several. I've noticed that during the rut they don't really stick to trails as much, they're just trying to get from one place to another fast as possible (point A to point B) and a person would typically put cams on trails so that could be a factor, that and I don't run a ton of cams.
Picture a hotel bar with cheap happy hour drinks.
The young college kids come in early to get sauced and hopefully lucky, then hop from bar to bar around town looking for that one girl who is receptive.
About the time the kids are moving on the Older guys with gold chains, aquavelva and pinky rings show up looking for love. The older guys KNOW that the ladies are there, half drunk already, and primed for action. Why spend all that effort running around trying to romance every girl in town when a "sure thing" is waiting at the bar?
I think this is a factor in mid day buck movement. During the prime hours, deer are moving. It takes a lot of energy to check every doe bedding spot, only to have the does be out somewhere else. Makes more sense to wait until they are bedded down, THEN go out checking out the "regular" spots at last call.
The young college kids come in early to get sauced and hopefully lucky, then hop from bar to bar around town looking for that one girl who is receptive.
About the time the kids are moving on the Older guys with gold chains, aquavelva and pinky rings show up looking for love. The older guys KNOW that the ladies are there, half drunk already, and primed for action. Why spend all that effort running around trying to romance every girl in town when a "sure thing" is waiting at the bar?
I think this is a factor in mid day buck movement. During the prime hours, deer are moving. It takes a lot of energy to check every doe bedding spot, only to have the does be out somewhere else. Makes more sense to wait until they are bedded down, THEN go out checking out the "regular" spots at last call.
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Any particular reason why you don't put cameras there other than disturbance?
BSK
Well-Known Member
Disturbance and limited visual range. We never enter our thick cover except in summer if some work needs to be done. During season, only to recover a downed deer.
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Agreed. When a buck and doe are finished mating, the few times I have watched it, he just bounces. Quickly.
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I have an idea BSK. Towards the end of the season, DO disturb those areas one time.
I have some basis for this. Every year towards the end of the season we rabbit hunt my farm and the farms around us. Usually just once.
We rarely see deer when we are hunting, even in the thick nasty areas. The dogs are noisy and we are shooting, and I think they just leave before we ever get close enough to see them.
But the next 2-3 days, we will have a flurry of random activity on cameras around the farm as those deer have been forced to get out of their tiny little comfort zone. It is a bit of an improptu deer drive. This is exactly the opposite of what I would have expected. I figured we would "run them off". But we don't. They just relocate a little for a short time.
Since this is a one time intrusion, they typically go back to their old ways after a few days.
Might luck up and kill one of those massive bucks you guys have on cam but can't seem to pin down.
I do. And I check them multiple times during season. They do move better and less nervously in thick cover but I've not seen where they necessarily move more during midday. In their very tight core bedding areas maybe they do but it's a crap shoot getting it on cam because they bed in different places every day, multiple times per day.
In my experience they don't bed down at daylight and stay until dark. They bed down for a few minutes or even a few hours but they're right back on their feet to stretch & bite a little browse & then plop right back down 15yds away in another spot. Up down up down all day long. During rut all bets are off because there are no rules or commonalities. A buck liable to do any one thing as likely as he is to do another.
But for sure I set up cams in the deepest recesses of cover and along travel routes in & out & throughout. I go in after season ends and prune trails and create or prune small openings, maintain mock scrapes, etc. I create my own perimeter trails around the thickets and make spur trails perpendicular & leading to deer trails. The spur will stop short of connecting to the deer trail and that's where I set the cams. They can watch the deer trail but I don't have to get anywhere near the trail to check my cams. That said, deer will use my perimeter trails as their own but my presence doesn't seem to affect them like it does when I intrude and walk on one of their interior trails. And since the spur trails don't connect, I rarely see deer on them.
I think once a deer has established a place as safe, they'll stay. It's hard to get them to move out. They know the entire area better than you do, including all the neighboring properties for miles any direction. They're on your place in that spot because it's the best spot. Bumping them out every once in awhile doesn't change that fact. Where else are they going to go? They'll evade the danger of your presence and come right back when you're gone. Mature bucks included.
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I'm not saying I don't believe in the idea of sanctuaries. But I also think of it a little like a gun free zone. A bad guy knows he can go there and not be shot.
If a deer knows he has a gun free zone, then why would he ever leave that area in daylight?
Going into "sanctuaries" (in quotes because it's often on public land) is exactly how l guys like Enfalt kill big bucks consistently.
I'm just advocating for sanctuaries to be a place we only hunt once or maybe twice a year when everything is perfect and if you don't punch a tag, that buck never knew you were there. Or to be shaken up once towards the end of the season.
I think it's the difference between public and private hunters. Public land hunters like Infalt who target older bucks, hunt a lot of different properties both public and private. Same with Eberhart or any other "mobile" type hunter. They do a lot of scouting and locate numerous spots where they may get a crack at a mature buck. If they bugger up a place they simply move on to another, and if need be can always come back to revisit burnt spots after they've had time to cool off. They show very little respect for an older buck compared to private land hunters in terms of how much they'll intrude into his core. It's a numbers game. The more bucks they've located to hunt, the better their odds at getting one.
Private only is different. A lot of private land hunters won't hunt public. They put all their eggs in one basket so that sanctuary is probably more critical for them. If they bugger up a spot then they've ruined their property maybe for days. And during rut that can be hugely consequential. So they give probably a lot of times too much respect out of caution, and IMO it costs them opportunities at great bucks. They don't have other spots to hunt, other big bucks to chase. So they sit back and wait for a buck that may or may not present itself. Sometimes it works but pretty rarely do I see a person hunting one single property and stacking up big bucks like the mobile guys do.
I'll go one step further. I've used trail cameras for 20 years and absolutely love using trail cameras today, but I'm of the believe hunters and others put WAY TOO MUCH stock in trail camera photos/data, when making wholesale opinions/recommendations about daylight deer movement. For example, I hunted early November (30° at daylight) on a thicker/CRP/native grass 25 acre tract that had 4 cameras on/around the perimeter. I was "doe hunting" that morning. As you would expect, I saw 7 different bucks from the stand, and NONE of them were caught on camera. Cameras were on scrapes, trails and pinch points. Great hunt, but cameras would lead one to believe otherwise.
Another friend hunted a field one cold afternoon recently. He has three cameras around the perimeter in an attempt to catch deer entering field in the evening. He saw 25 deer in last hour, but not one trail camera pic.
These are just a few examples from this season alone. Cameras have their place, but they miss WAY MORE than they capture. My analogy it is like putting a trail camera in your closest and trying to estimate how much you and your family move around your house. Not a good representation of overall movement IMO.
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BSK
Well-Known Member
They need to get new trail-cams. I've never - NEVER - seen a deer walk near one of my trail-cams and not get their picture taken. I've never - NEVER - walked near a trail-cam and not gotten my picture taken.
As I said previously, 96% of all bucks we've killed since I began running trail-cam censuses had been previously photographed. And it's usually not one or two pictures but hundreds of pictures of each buck. The rare "one or two pictures" killed bucks, the bucks had just shown up on the property 24-48 hours earlier due to the rut.
