Interesting article on lead vs TSS

[Roost 1]

I would argue the "pixie dust" is so superior to lead shot that using lead shot anymore is bordering on unethical.

Would not be much of an argument. TSS popularity rose because of its use in the sub-gauges. To put it simply it's a great alternative to lead in the sub-gauges simply because of small payload. I'll take my old 835 with lead 4s and kill one as far anyone shooting TSS in any gauge.
I'm a big proponent of TSS but some of y'all are going overboard on this crap by saying shooting lead is unethical. What's unethical is shooting birds over 50yds with any shot.
A new TSS ammo manufacturer released a video yesterday shooting a gobbler in full strut at 50yds with 9s…a true sportsman would roast their azzes on social media and never buy their product. I know one guy that did, any the googans flamed him. However I'm sure that unethical video will sell a lot of shells for them in Nashville. Turkey hunting today is the furthest thing from what it used to be…… I'll blame social media and the participation trophy crowd for its downfall.

 

[Doskil]

Why aren't rifle bullets made of tungsten?

The US military has rifle bullets made of tungsten.

They are considered "armor piercing" and expensive

 

[Doskil]

What's unethical is shooting birds over 50yds with any shot.

No argument there . Agree

 

[knightrider]

I would argue the "pixie dust" is so superior to lead shot that using lead shot anymore is bordering on unethical.

Only beyond ethical ranges is it superior to lead, under 50 is ethical turkey hunting which neither is superior in killing power. Dead is dead

 

[knightrider]

Would not be much of an argument. TSS popularity rose because of its use in the sub-gauges. To put it simply it's a great alternative to lead in the sub-gauges simply because of small payload. I'll take my old 835 with lead 4s and kill one as far anyone shooting TSS in any gauge.
I'm a big proponent of TSS but some of y'all are going overboard on this crap by saying shooting lead is unethical. What's unethical is shooting birds over 50yds with any shot.
A new TSS ammo manufacturer released a video yesterday shooting a gobbler in full strut at 50yds with 9s…a true sportsman would roast their azzes on social media and never buy their product. I know one guy that did, any the googans flamed him. However I'm sure that unethical video will sell a lot of shells for them in Nashville. Turkey hunting today is the furthest thing from what it used to be…… I'll blame social media and the participation trophy crowd for its downfall.

Amen brother, i got pretty sick when i seen that! Will never give them a dime and will backlash them everytime they post their bs

 

[utvolsfan77]

The US military has rifle bullets made of tungsten.

They are considered "armor piercing" and expensive

You are correct. For 15 of the 24+ years I was on active duty in the Army, I was a Bradley Master Gunner and an expert on the 25mm Bushmaster chain guns. Tips of the 25mm armor piercing (AP) rounds were made from a mixture of magnesium and tungsten carbide for its known penetrating capability.

 

[Rockhound]

But its actually the truth. An ethical turkey hunter would use tungsten alloy shot and nothing else (unless rifles are legal where one is hunting)

B.S. nothing unethical at all about shooting lead shot at turkeys.

 

[Rockhound]

Why aren't rifle bullets made of tungsten?

Because you want something that mushrooms when you are shooting into the lungs/heart of a deer.

 

[Doskil]

B.S. nothing unethical at all about shooting lead shot at turkeys.

I didn't flat out say unethical. I said bordering on unethical

 

[Spurhunter]

I think all of us can agree to dispatch a turkey, all it takes is a single pellet of any size or density to sever the spinal cord or hit the brain. Pellets to the body/chest are unreliable and usually unethical. Totally different than shooting a mammal.

I think all.of us can agree that Tss 9 shot is not any more deadly than #5 lead when it hits the brain or spinal cord of a turkey.

I think all of us can agree that there will be 4x more #9 shot TSS ounce for ounce hitting the brain and spinal cord than #5 lead (except for longbeard xr loads... TSS will only put 2 to 3x more pellets in the head and neck per ounce than 5 LB XRs)


I guess the disagreement between lead and TSS shooters is whether the pattern density is enough to ensure there is a single pellet hitting the brain or spinal cord EVERY SINGLE TRIGGER PULL with that load at that given distance every single time.

If you have that level of confidence in your pattern density with lead, no need to spend 800% more per shotshell for TSS. If your particular shotgun, with your particular choke at that particular diatance won't do it every time, changing to TSS will improve your performance 400% ounce for ounce. While that 400% improvement in pattern density does not guarantee a single pellet in the brain or spinal cord, statistically your odds of it happening are increased by 400%.

Sure, dead is dead.. if your lead loads put a single pellet in the brain or spinal cord 100% of the time, there is no need for increased pattern density. If my lead loads did that, I wouldn't shoot anything else either. I don't deer hunt with a 50 BMG when a .308 kills deer just as effectively (because I put the single bullet from the .308 into the chest). Too bad I can't pinpoint aim a single pellet out of the shotshell directly to the brain or spinal cord of a turkey. Otherwise I would just use a bb gun to kill them

Excellent post.

 

[Spurhunter]

What's unethical is shooting birds over 50yds with any shot.

I bet you and your hunting buddy I met in Missouri have had some interesting conversations about that!

 

[Setterman]

I didn't flat out say unethical. I said bordering on unethical

Haha, not even sniffing at unethical Shooting lead. Leads been killing turkeys long before most hunted turkeys. It's the dipshlts shooting long shots that are unethical

 

[Levee Jumper]

I think we can agree that the premise of this conversation is a bit ridiculous. It's akin to trying to convince people to shoot steel shot instead of lead at small game because dead is dead. The math just doesn't make sense. It simply comes down to pellet count that is deadly at range. (7.8<11<18)

In 50 years 20% of the population will still look at you like your crazy if your shooting Turkeys and Ducks with 9's. They just dont know any better. It's the same type of people that think longer brass on shotshells make them shoot harder.

 

[Roost 1]

I bet you and your hunting buddy I met in Missouri have had some interesting conversations about that!

I can't control what he does when he's not with me… He gets awfully excited at times and makes some bad decisions in my opinion.

 

[Iglow]

Like most things these days, TSS is a symptom of buying success, covering for poor skills or an outlet for boredom. Killing turkeys with a 410 is ok for little kids but if they are that small they maybe should be a little older anyway. This 410 thing is really a doosy! A guy wants the challenge of hunting with the 410 but turns it into a 2 3/4 12 ga equivalent gun with TSS!!!! If somebody want to say they killed a turkey with a 410, use 7.5 lead and call him to 20 yards or less and shoot him, then you've actually done something . To me the whole point of turkey hunting IS the the hunting/calling the bird within range of a common (as in 1 1/4 oz) lead shot load, not over 30 yards. If you can't/don't get him to 30, so be it, he won and you lost that day, but you did it right. I've heard of turkeys being killed at 70+ yards with 12 ga TSS, if that's how low it's come to, that's a sad thing. If that's the distance it'll kill them, why fool with calling at all and just belly crawl'em and shoot them. If turkey hunting is really about hunting instead of about tailgate pics and social media posts, TSS shot is not needed and a stupid waste of money.

 

[Spurhunter]

Alrighty then.

 

[Iglow]

My go to shell is a Winchester AA 12 ga 2-3/4 super pigeon target load with 1-1/4 oz copper plated 7.5, 1250 fps. No turkey can take that load at 30 yds or less and come out alive but I'd never shoot past 30 yds, that's asking for trouble. Cost?$14.95 per 25.

 

[cowhunter71]

Like most things these days, TSS is a symptom of buying success, covering for poor skills or an outlet for boredom. Killing turkeys with a 410 is ok for little kids but if they are that small they maybe should be a little older anyway. This 410 thing is really a doosy! A guy wants the challenge of hunting with the 410 but turns it into a 2 3/4 12 ga equivalent gun with TSS!!!! If somebody want to say they killed a turkey with a 410, use 7.5 lead and call him to 20 yards or less and shoot him, then you've actually done something . To me the whole point of turkey hunting IS the the hunting/calling the bird within range of a common (as in 1 1/4 oz) lead shot load, not over 30 yards. If you can't/don't get him to 30, so be it, he won and you lost that day, but you did it right. I've heard of turkeys being killed at 70+ yards with 12 ga TSS, if that's how low it's come to, that's a sad thing. If that's the distance it'll kill them, why fool with calling at all and just belly crawl'em and shoot them. If turkey hunting is really about hunting instead of about tailgate pics and social media posts, TSS shot is not needed and a stupid waste of money.

 

[deerfever]

Like most things these days, TSS is a symptom of buying success, covering for poor skills or an outlet for boredom. Killing turkeys with a 410 is ok for little kids but if they are that small they maybe should be a little older anyway. This 410 thing is really a doosy! A guy wants the challenge of hunting with the 410 but turns it into a 2 3/4 12 ga equivalent gun with TSS!!!! If somebody want to say they killed a turkey with a 410, use 7.5 lead and call him to 20 yards or less and shoot him, then you've actually done something . To me the whole point of turkey hunting IS the the hunting/calling the bird within range of a common (as in 1 1/4 oz) lead shot load, not over 30 yards. If you can't/don't get him to 30, so be it, he won and you lost that day, but you did it right. I've heard of turkeys being killed at 70+ yards with 12 ga TSS, if that's how low it's come to, that's a sad thing. If that's the distance it'll kill them, why fool with calling at all and just belly crawl'em and shoot them. If turkey hunting is really about hunting instead of about tailgate pics and social media posts, TSS shot is not needed and a stupid waste of money.

So it's ok to shoot a 12 gauge but not turn a 410 with a fraction of the weight into a gun that shoots as good of a pattern as a 12 gauge? So killing a turkey at 35 yards with a 12 gauge is ok but killing a turkey at 35 yards with a 410 is not good? The 70 yard shot people exist with lead, TSS or whatever they put in their gun. They are the ones pulling the trigger not the lead shell, TSS or whatever they are shooting. I guess I will just have to go back to the old 15 pound 835 with a dove load ! Lol

 

[Iglow]

Deerfever, I guess you're right.,I don't know. I just don't see the point of spending money on a new gun and $12.00 a pop shells to do the same job of a gun you most likely have now and with shells that are $9.00 for ten. If a man is so frail that the difference in weight from a 12 to a 410 is the determining factor as to going hunting or not should he be getting out to start with? I guess it gets back to me being cheap by nature. Also to the bored thing I mentioned, if that's what a man wants to do, what do I care, but it seem connected with being bored and looking for something to do to me.
If someone from these 2 viewpoints each wrote a story about a hunt where a turkey was called up and killed and had it published, in fifty years which story would most likely be remembered or reread? The one about a thrilling hunt were it was maybe/maybe not till the bird got inside 30 yards or the one about a guy cutting on a box call to a bird that just flew off the roost, popped his head up at 75 yds away to look towards the cutting and got shot then made the rounds on facebook and instagram?