Deer management question

[BigRod]

Alrighty guys I have a few questions. But first just a little back story. I have 3 properties I can hunt at anytime (2 private, 1 public) last season I had 2 bucks on camera ( I shot the 6, and there's a weird spike) and dozens of does. In the past there's Been some pretty huge deer taken from this property and in the surrounding area. But in the past 2 years I've noticed a pretty steep decline in the big deer. So I'm stuck on what to do.

The other property is a 10 acres of private fields with a few patches of thick stuff and a pond, well that leads into another 8 acres of public land (tva) I took a 6 out of there last year and nothin else. I have some huge deer on cam there but haven't seen them in daylight to get the chance. Now it's only accessible by boat unless you have permission from surrounding property owners in this case I do. Me and my buddy share this spot because we know no one else hunts it but he hasn't taken anything from it. So I guess my question is, how do I find these big deer?

Sorry this is a 2 part question/thread feel free to give me anything and everything ya got!! Thanks I'm advance

 

[TheLBLman]

Lots of misunderstandings about deer "management", particularly bucks.

Bucks, especially the ones many consider "my" bucks on "my" property, actually are often considered "my" bucks by multiple hunters miles apart. Only two square miles is 2,560 acres, and rutting bucks routinely travel over 2 miles straight distance on a near daily basis, meaning their rut range becomes thousands of acres, instead of the less than 100 acres of the average TN private hunting property.

Just to add some perspective, think about how far a man can easily walk in only an hour. In most cases, it should be around 2 miles. Bucks do more of this linear distance traveling under the cover of darkness, but they also do it lot during daylight, during the rut. One reason some bucks are never seen again, and we don't know what happened, is often that they were killed 3 miles away from where we expected to kill them.

I've been involved with the management of several thousand contiguous acres now for about two decades. A reasonable expectation is for hunters to harvest one buck 3 1/2 or older per 300 acres, and this is under a high level QDM-type program where less than 10% of the bucks killed are younger than 3 1/2.

Most bucks 3 1/2 or older with an above average rack do get killed by the hunters. Those surviving to 5 1/2 (or older) tend to be the ones with average to below average racks, and have been passed up multiple times by multiple hunters who simply didn't want to use a tag on them. Eventually, most the average to below average racked older bucks do get killed by hunters, as they still get considered to be nice trophies, yet may "score" only in the 120's as full maturity.

There is a wide gap between most hunters' expectations and reality
when it comes to deer management in Tennessee.

 

[BSK]

As TheLBLman stated, older bucks have very large ranges. The average range of an older buck outside of the rut is approximately 1,200 acres, and then that range generally doubles in size during the rut. In addition, some bucks have a completely different range for the rut - they literally pick and go somewhere else for the 5 to 6 weeks of the rut, only returning to their original range post-rut. My point being, 10 acres isn't much to work with. How often is a particular buck using that 10-acre patch? Probably not that often.

When working with small properties, I emphasize to the landowner to produce as much high-quality cover as possible. When not chasing a hot doe during the rut, older bucks spend the majority of their daylight hours in or very near thick cover. They will even travel across the landscape by moving from patch of cover to patch of cover, and when moving between these patches, they will use the most advantageous terrain/habitat as possible. Often, the key to killing older bucks is to recognize this "advantageous terrain/habitat" connecting the patches of cover and hunting it under the right conditions (best wind direction).

Of course, all that said, all bets are off during the peak of the rut. Even older bucks do stupid things when chasing a hot doe.

 

[DoubleRidge]

I agree with LBLman and BSK....we have got to have realistic expectations....and cover can be king... especially in areas that are lacking....do you have control over the fields you mentioned? If so can you allow those fields to grow up ...or portions of those fields to grow up...old field growth can add great diversity to a property and be a great draw for deer ... especially in areas that are "kept clean"......as far as "big deer" go...you and your hunting buddy need to define what meets YOUR trophy desires? Is it a 3yo? 4yo? 5yo? or 100" 120" 130" 140+ ? None of those goals are impossible in TN....but some of those goals are more attainable...if 115" 8pt meets your goal then set the bar there and stick to it....my experience has been the more young bucks we let walk the more opportunities we have at older age class bucks....yes they travel....yes they can (and do) die on the neighbors....but not always.....we've killed multiple bucks over the years that we had velvet pics of then we killed them during the peak of the rut in the same location....then we've had them disappear to never be seen again....then we've also had good bucks show up that we had not one picture of previously.....so make what habitat improvements you can and let the younger bucks walk.... lastly....being a smaller property don't over hunt it....wait until the time is right...say first couple weeks in November....pick the best days and sit all day...in the rut anything can happen...but most of all enjoy the process....good luck!

 

[BSK]

Great comments and advice DoubleRidge.

 

[BigRod]

I agree with LBLman and BSK....we have got to have realistic expectations....and cover can be king... especially in areas that are lacking....do you have control over the fields you mentioned? If so can you allow those fields to grow up ...or portions of those fields to grow up...old field growth can add great diversity to a property and be a great draw for deer ... especially in areas that are "kept clean"......as far as "big deer" go...you and your hunting buddy need to define what meets YOUR trophy desires? Is it a 3yo? 4yo? 5yo? or 100" 120" 130" 140+ ? None of those goals are impossible in TN....but some of those goals are more attainable...if 115" 8pt meets your goal then set the bar there and stick to it....my experience has been the more young bucks we let walk the more opportunities we have at older age class bucks....yes they travel....yes they can (and do) die on the neighbors....but not always.....we've killed multiple bucks over the years that we had velvet pics of then we killed them during the peak of the rut in the same location....then we've had them disappear to never be seen again....then we've also had good bucks show up that we had not one picture of previously.....so make what habitat improvements you can and let the younger bucks walk.... lastly....being a smaller property don't over hunt it....wait until the time is right...say first couple weeks in November....pick the best days and sit all day...in the rut anything can happen...but most of all enjoy the process....good luck!

I do not have control over the fields, the landowner mows them once ever 2 months is day with the exception of sxs and 4 wheeler trails around the edge.

The red line is the outline of the property, the purple blob is the area of which I have a stand.

 

[DoubleRidge]

I do not have control over the fields, the landowner mows them once ever 2 months is day with the exception of sxs and 4 wheeler trails around the edge.

The red line is the outline of the property, the purple blob is the area of which I have a stand.

Ok....any chance the property owner would let you plant a food plot in the pocket you have your stand in? Wouldn't have to be anything fancy...top sow some winter wheat or a simple fall blend....maybe just add something that the deer are not getting on neighboring property's....a nice green patch might be a nice draw this fall or winter when other food sources are drying up.....is there a ton of pressure on the neighboring property? If so reduce the pressure on your spot and give the deer a place to feel secure....can you seek permission on any neighboring property to enlarge what you have to work with? I have one property I hunt that is only 17 acre...not many options there...but we have one small plot and will hunt it only when the time is right.

 

[BigRod]

Ok....any chance the property owner would let you plant a food plot in the pocket you have your stand it? Wouldn't have to be anything fancy...top sow some winter wheat or a simple fall blend....maybe just add something that the deer are not getting on neighboring property's....a nice green patch might be a nice draw this fall or winter when other food sources are drying up.....is there a ton of pressure on the neighboring property? If so reduce the pressure on your spot and give the deer a place to feel secure....can you seek permission on any neighboring property to enlarge what you have to work with? I have one property I hunt that is only 17 acre...not many options there...but we have one small plot and will hunt it only when the time is right.

I'm sure he'll let me plant something. I think we (me and neighbors) are gonna all chip in to plant sunflower somewhere and have an annual dove shoot, I've always thought about planting something in front of my stand and going out to 50 yards or so but have no clue where to start. I've kept quite on here for a while and have just read. The process seems labor intensive without heavy machinery, there's also no way I can predict how much it'll cost. Open to the cheapest and easiest options available!

I was thinkin, mow the white section down and plant something

 

[DoubleRidge]

I'm sure he'll let me plant something. I think we (me and neighbors) are gonna all chip in to plant sunflower somewhere and have an annual dove shoot, I've always thought about planting something in front of my stand and going out to 50 yards or so but have no clue where to start. I've kept quite on here for a while and have just read. The process seems labor intensive without heavy machinery, there's also no way I can predict how much it'll cost. Open to the cheapest and easiest options available!

Research throw and mow methods....and don't worry with big name brand "buck on the bag" seeds....go to coop and explain what you want to do....winter wheat or a fall coop brand blend can work....sow it real heavy just before mowing and hopefully just before a good rain....it won't be a magazine perfect food plot but you can create a green plot without spending a fortune.....big equipment is nice....but not mandatory.....ton of videos on line about the throw and mow method.

 

[BigRod]

Research throw and mow methods....and don't worry with big name brand "buck on the bag" seeds....go to coop and explain what you want to do....winter wheat or a fall coop brand blend can work....sow it real heavy with seed just before mowing and hopefully just before a good rain....it won't be a magazine perfect food plot but you can create a green plot without spending a fortune.....big equipment is nice....but not mandatory.....ton of videos on line about the throw and mow method.

Thanks a bunch man! I appreciate the help. FYI I may come back to ask a few more questions! God bless

 

[BSK]

Research throw and mow methods....and don't worry with big name brand "buck on the bag" seeds....go to coop and explain what you want to do....winter wheat or a fall coop brand blend can work....sow it real heavy just before mowing and hopefully just before a good rain....it won't be a magazine perfect food plot but you can create a green plot without spending a fortune.....big equipment is nice....but not mandatory.....ton of videos on line about the throw and mow method.

DoubleRidge is correct. For years I planted several acres of food plots using the throw and mow technique. As he mentioned, they won't be a TV hunting show quality plots, but they WILL draw deer.

Throw and mow food plot:

 

[Nsghunter]

Lots of misunderstandings about deer "management", particularly bucks.

Bucks, especially the ones many consider "my" bucks on "my" property, actually are often considered "my" bucks by multiple hunters miles apart. Only two square miles is 2,560 acres, and rutting bucks routinely travel over 2 miles straight distance on a near daily basis, meaning their rut range becomes thousands of acres, instead of the less than 100 acres of the average TN private hunting property.

Just to add some perspective, think about how far a man can easily walk in only an hour. In most cases, it should be around 2 miles. Bucks do more of this linear distance traveling under the cover of darkness, but they also do it lot during daylight, during the rut. One reason some bucks are never seen again, and we don't know what happened, is often that they were killed 3 miles away from where we expected to kill them.

I've been involved with the management of several thousand contiguous acres now for about two decades. A reasonable expectation is for hunters to harvest one buck 3 1/2 or older per 300 acres, and this is under a high level QDM-type program where less than 10% of the bucks killed are younger than 3 1/2.

Most bucks 3 1/2 or older with an above average rack do get killed by the hunters. Those surviving to 5 1/2 (or older) tend to be the ones with average to below average racks, and have been passed up multiple times by multiple hunters who simply didn't want to use a tag on them. Eventually, most the average to below average racked older bucks do get killed by hunters, as they still get considered to be nice trophies, yet may "score" only in the 120's as full maturity.

There is a wide gap between most hunters' expectations and reality
when it comes to deer management in Tennessee.

EVERYTIME I hear about the range of a mature buck it blows my mind. PA released a collared buck study a few years back and it was amazing how far the deer moved: 1. the opening of deer season 2. the beginning of the rut.

 

[BSK]

EVERYTIME I hear about the range of a mature buck it blows my mind. PA released a collared buck study a few years back and it was amazing how far the deer moved: 1. the opening of deer season 2. the beginning of the rut.

I know of one collared buck that covered 17,000 acres in a year.

 

[TheLBLman]

When it comes to effecting deer management, the linear distance a rutting buck travels may matter more than how many acres he "covers".

There are a lot of creek bottoms all over TN which are less than a half-mile wide (wooded), but several miles long. A 4-mile long creek bottom (or ridgeline) might encompass less than 1,000 acres, but rutting bucks might regularly travel over 4 miles one direction.