20 gauge tss

[david k.]

Nice how do they compare to apex? Same , better worse?

Based on a pattern on a clean sheet at 40 yards, I couldn't tell the difference and don't believe a turkey will be able to tell either.

The FF3 on my sons 870 youth is already sighted in with the APEX shells and since I still have 1.5 boxes of them, we will shoot those up from his gun and I will fine tune the FF3 on my Mossy Bantam 500 using the shells from Sattie.

We shoot a little more 'open' chokes from both shotguns as they seem to pattern better than really tight chokes (based on what I've seen....YMMV)

The choke on the Remington is from Cabela's (made by Carlson) and I believe its .575" and the one on the Mossy 500 is a Trulock Pinhoti and I believe its a .585" choke.

 

[Bgoodman30]

Based on a pattern on a clean sheet at 40 yards, I couldn't tell the difference and don't believe a turkey will be able to tell either.

The FF3 on my sons 870 youth is already sighted in with the APEX shells and since I still have 1.5 boxes of them, we will shoot those up from his gun and I will fine tune the FF3 on my Mossy Bantam 500 using the shells from Sattie.

We shoot a little more 'open' chokes from both shotguns as they seem to pattern better than really tight chokes (based on what I've seen....YMMV)

The choke on the Remington is from Cabela's (made by Carlson) and I believe its .575" and the one on the Mossy 500 is a Trulock Pinhoti and I believe its a .585" choke.

I have patterned the 585 Pinhoti choke and its good almost the same as my RR 560. I would order these shells but I have a few boxes from another shell manufacturer that have not been released to the public. Will see how they pattern.

 

[TheLBLman]

All the banter about longer range loads and longer range "turkey" chokes providing "rifle" like (baseball to softball) size patterns at closer ranges . . . . . . .
Just made me think a bit.

Over many decades, I suspect 90% of my turkeys have been killed under 30 yds, probably 70% under 25. That's in part because I Day One tried to limit my shots to the then recommended maximum of 40 yds.

But in reality, it really wouldn't have mattered much just what choke or what shell I was shooting. All the banter we get engaged in, is mostly spawned by slick marketing into making you think you "need" something different to be successful. Happens with just about everything, not just turkey hunting.

So why did it not matter much?
Because with most traditional turkey hunting set-ups (unless you focus on fields), you're commonly just not going to see a turkey farther than 40 yds. So no surprise, most must be killed under 40.

Because we've been misled a bit by long-range "marketing" (which includes most of those TV & DVD "hunting" "shooting" shows), I suspect many hunters are doing themselves more harm than good with their "long range" turkey chokes. And this long-range mindset contributes greatly to many more wounding losses, both up close and long-range.

IMO, more EASY shots at turkeys under 25 yds have been missed, than really long shots made, because the hunter had too tight a choke (and no optical sight). If you're going to shoot a rifle at a turkey's head at 20 yds, you might need a very precise aiming point beyond a front bead.

I forget which renowned turkey hunter it was, many moons ago, but he only used a factory modified choke, as opposed to a "Full", or tighter than full, "turkey" choke. When asked why, his simple answer was because it was too easy to miss a bird up close with a full choke, and many were going to step into view under 25 yds. And, he didn't even see many, while set up for the kill, beyond 40 yds. This conversation pre-dated the now common use of optical sights on turkey shotguns.

Thing is, he was right, for most turkey hunting, maybe with the exception of large field hunting, which is often more like deer hunting from a stand than what has traditionally been called turkey hunting.

I bet Setterman would agree that most turkey hunters would kill more turkeys if they were using a more open choke, such as the factory "modified" one that comes with about every new gun now.

 

[TheLBLman]

So why would someone like me, generally killing most turkeys under 30 yds prefer to be loaded with TSS loads? Because I'm less likely to miss a turkey's head, both up close, and even over 40 yds, which still remains about my maximum. Just now have a greater margin for error.

Traveling down a shotgun barrel, because TSS (being harder) deforms less than lead, the patterns are more uniform with fewer "fliers". And, you can use much smaller sized pellets (like #9 TSS instead of #5 lead) resulting in much denser patterns, improving the odds one of them hits that turkey's head or neck in the right spot. Best of all, this can be the case even when I choose to hunt with a more open choke than most. Best of many worlds, i.e. larger pattern, still denser than tight turkey chokes using #5 lead.

Meanwhile, it seems most (on this thread & everywhere) seem to be thinking the most important thing is how many pellets can be put inside a 10" circle at 40 yds.

But the center 1" of that 10" circle only leaves 4 1/2 inches in every direction for a miss (sparse pattern outside that 10" center). Note how many people are posting pattern pictures where the center of their 10" patterns is several inches from a turkey's head or center of neck.

I generally prefer a more uniform 20" pattern at 40 yds, which will still be consistently deadly at 45-plus with TSS #9.

 

[scn]

The reason you are seeing all of the long range propaganda from the $$$ driven companies is that the majority of the folks buying their product couldn't call a turkey into 25 steps if their life depended on it. Most are grip and grinners that care ZERO about how they kill a bird as long as they get their hero Faceplant picture. The traditions that made this sport special are long gone with the "new breed".

But, hey, they can stick their remote controlled strutter out there at 50 yds where a bird might not see them jerking around like a chicken and shoot one 20 yds behind the deke. Let that bro get that pic!

 

[TheLBLman]

The reason you are seeing all of the long range propaganda from the $$$ driven companies is that the majority of the folks buying their product couldn't call a turkey into 25 steps if their life depended on it. Most are grip and grinners that care ZERO about how they kill a bird as long as they get their hero Faceplant picture. The traditions that made this sport special are long gone with the "new breed".

On this, we agree.
For similar reasons, I suspect somewhere near 15 - 20% of the entire TN "statewide" (private lands) spring turkey kill has been taken over a pile of corn. Might be less than that on public lands where baiters are more likely to be caught. And just maybe, the new 2-week delay will make baiting a little less effective for those who poach instead of hunt.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Just amongst us TNDEER turkey huntin folk, if we had an honest contest to see who could call'em and kill'em the closest, it'd be the most boring thread all spring. A bunch of 38yd kills and a bunch of 6yd misses…that no one posted about.

 

[Bgoodman30]

All the banter about longer range loads and longer range "turkey" chokes providing "rifle" like (baseball to softball) size patterns at closer ranges . . . . . . .
Just made me think a bit.

Over many decades, I suspect 90% of my turkeys have been killed under 30 yds, probably 70% under 25. That's in part because I Day One tried to limit my shots to the then recommended maximum of 40 yds.

But in reality, it really wouldn't have mattered much just what choke or what shell I was shooting. All the banter we get engaged in, is mostly spawned by slick marketing into making you think you "need" something different to be successful. Happens with just about everything, not just turkey hunting.

So why did it not matter much?
Because with most traditional turkey hunting set-ups (unless you focus on fields), you're commonly just not going to see a turkey farther than 40 yds. So no surprise, most must be killed under 40.

Because we've been misled a bit by long-range "marketing" (which includes most of those TV & DVD "hunting" "shooting" shows), I suspect many hunters are doing themselves more harm than good with their "long range" turkey chokes. And this long-range mindset contributes greatly to many more wounding losses, both up close and long-range.

IMO, more EASY shots at turkeys under 25 yds have been missed, than really long shots made, because the hunter had too tight a choke (and no optical sight). If you're going to shoot a rifle at a turkey's head at 20 yds, you might need a very precise aiming point beyond a front bead.

I forget which renowned turkey hunter it was, many moons ago, but he only used a factory modified choke, as opposed to a "Full", or tighter than full, "turkey" choke. When asked why, his simple answer was because it was too easy to miss a bird up close with a full choke, and many were going to step into view under 25 yds. And, he didn't even see many, while set up for the kill, beyond 40 yds. This conversation pre-dated the now common use of optical sights on turkey shotguns.

Thing is, he was right, for most turkey hunting, maybe with the exception of large field hunting, which is often more like deer hunting from a stand than what has traditionally been called turkey hunting.

I bet Setterman would agree that most turkey hunters would kill more turkeys if they were using a more open choke, such as the factory "modified" one that comes with about every new gun now.

Yep see folks all the time on SM proud of their softball size patterns at 40 yards... I have definitely missed some birds close range with my "turkey" choke. That's why I like the Pinhoti 585 its a little bit more forgiving at 20.

 

[woodsman04]

There is just something about shooting a gobbler, with a Remington 1100 12 gauge 2-3/4" 1-1/2 oz magnum load of #4s or #6s at about 28 yards.

Back when there were people that did own 3" 12 gauges or 3-1/2 10 gauges, but most people just hunted with whatever shotgun they had, and with whatever shells they picked up from the store.

Yes the advancement of shells and chokes, guns, scopes, blah blah is incredible. I use TSS out of a 20 most of the time, but if I couldn't I wouldn't worry about it.
Some people think that if you ain't getting one-million TSS 9s in a 10" circle at laser ranged 45 yards out of your 20 gauge then you can't kill a turkey.
Hahahahahaha

I sure do miss the days of lead and no decoys.

 

[megalomaniac]

There is just something about shooting a gobbler, with a Remington 1100 12 gauge 2-3/4" 1-1/2 oz magnum load of #4s or #6s at about 28 yards.

Back when there were people that did own 3" 12 gauges or 3-1/2 10 gauges, but most people just hunted with whatever shotgun they had, and with whatever shells they picked up from the store.

Yes the advancement of shells and chokes, guns, scopes, blah blah is incredible. I use TSS out of a 20 most of the time, but if I couldn't I wouldn't worry about it.
Some people think that if you ain't getting one-million TSS 9s in a 10" circle at laser ranged 45 yards out of your 20 gauge then you can't kill a turkey.
Hahahahahaha

I sure do miss the days of lead and no decoys.

Yes and no... im still SICK about all those birds I shot at 30y with my 3in #5s from my 11-87 that didn't flop... and it was probably 1 out of 4. Probably 3/4 of those that didn't flop went on to die somewhere else I suspect.

That was THE reason I switched to the 3.5in 10g win xx #5s... problem solved. Everything flopped.

Carried that gun for 20 plus years... no need to change until the federal heavyweights came out... just no reason not to use #7s and improve pattern density even more.

But as I got older and had to hike more miles to get on a bird due to declining populations, I switched to the 20g with TSS. Went from a 12lb tricked out shotgun down to a 6lb tricked out shotgun. And got the SAME patterns from #9TSS in the 20g as I was getting from the #7s 15g/cc in the 10g. No brainer for me and haven't pulled my 10g out of the safe in the last 7 or 8 years.

 

[Rakkin6]

Some people on this thread believe that wound channel on a turkey has as much to do with killing turkeys as anything. Some people with all their "research" have never considered the fact that killing turkeys has 100% to do with crippling the CNS and absolutely nothing to do with wound channels, and pellet expansion. Some people on this thread will not even start to conceive the notion that more bone crushing hits in the CNS is deadlier than less pellets with more deformation. They try entirely to hard to relate lead pellets to the same effect as deer bullets and there purpose. They will get their feelings hurt when you disagree as well. I will say and it's 100% proven fact that 30 pellets in the area of the CNS that are capable of crushing bone and continuing on the path are and will always be deadlier, with a higher success rate than 7 or 8 pellets that mushroom in the same area. We aren't following blood trails here, 99% of the time he either flops or he doesnt.

I have to agree, almost like the high shoulder shot on a deer. Hit CNS and it's lights out right there.

 

[Wooden Arrow]

Just amongst us TNDEER turkey huntin folk, if we had an honest contest to see who could call'em and kill'em the closest, it'd be the most boring thread all spring. A bunch of 38yd kills and a bunch of 6yd misses…that no one posted about.

the last bird i killed was at 6 paces when i first saw him coming around a brushpile i was next to. i HEARD him though, or i'd have been sitting there with my gun in my lap, eating a sandwich...

 

[Wooden Arrow]

haven't pulled my 10g out of the safe in the last 7 or 8 years.

if my 20 patterns any of these new shells well, i'll be hanging my ten up as well. 9 1/2 lbs...

 

[TITANSFAN2104]

All the banter about longer range loads and longer range "turkey" chokes providing "rifle" like (baseball to softball) size patterns at closer ranges . . . . . . .
Just made me think a bit.

Over many decades, I suspect 90% of my turkeys have been killed under 30 yds, probably 70% under 25. That's in part because I Day One tried to limit my shots to the then recommended maximum of 40 yds.

But in reality, it really wouldn't have mattered much just what choke or what shell I was shooting. All the banter we get engaged in, is mostly spawned by slick marketing into making you think you "need" something different to be successful. Happens with just about everything, not just turkey hunting.

So why did it not matter much?
Because with most traditional turkey hunting set-ups (unless you focus on fields), you're commonly just not going to see a turkey farther than 40 yds. So no surprise, most must be killed under 40.

Because we've been misled a bit by long-range "marketing" (which includes most of those TV & DVD "hunting" "shooting" shows), I suspect many hunters are doing themselves more harm than good with their "long range" turkey chokes. And this long-range mindset contributes greatly to many more wounding losses, both up close and long-range.

IMO, more EASY shots at turkeys under 25 yds have been missed, than really long shots made, because the hunter had too tight a choke (and no optical sight). If you're going to shoot a rifle at a turkey's head at 20 yds, you might need a very precise aiming point beyond a front bead.

I forget which renowned turkey hunter it was, many moons ago, but he only used a factory modified choke, as opposed to a "Full", or tighter than full, "turkey" choke. When asked why, his simple answer was because it was too easy to miss a bird up close with a full choke, and many were going to step into view under 25 yds. And, he didn't even see many, while set up for the kill, beyond 40 yds. This conversation pre-dated the now common use of optical sights on turkey shotguns.

Thing is, he was right, for most turkey hunting, maybe with the exception of large field hunting, which is often more like deer hunting from a stand than what has traditionally been called turkey hunting.

I bet Setterman would agree that most turkey hunters would kill more turkeys if they were using a more open choke, such as the factory "modified" one that comes with about every new gun now.

Around here, unless its a field bird. A 40 yd shot is a long ways in hardwoods unless there is no undergrowth. Most of the time i will tell people if you can see half his body, he is close enough

 

[TITANSFAN2104]

if my 20 patterns any of these new shells well, i'll be hanging my ten up as well. 9 1/2 lbs...

I have 5 20 gauges set up and all of them shoot good!!

 

[Bgoodman30]

I had never missed a bird until I started experimenting with "turkey" guns, chokes, shells… I am glad I got through that learning curve cost me a bunch of birds…

 

[Wooden Arrow]

had never missed a bird

does bowhunting count? i've missed 13 in a row now with nary a feather to show for the effort...

 

[Bgoodman30]

does bowhunting count? i've missed 13 in a row now with nary a feather to show for the effort...

Oh wow that beats my all time record of 7… Definitely no interest in flinging sticks at them…

 

[Wooden Arrow]

if they go to a one bird limit, i'll get to hunt the entire season!

 

[woodsman04]

does bowhunting count? i've missed 13 in a row now with nary a feather to show for the effort...

That's tough.

I want to try the bow. But in scared….
Not scared of missing, or spooking him, or not getting a shot off. Scared of crippling one. I love then too much. You can hit them in the vitals and they fly away and never be found. (Yes I know you can deer too).
One day I think I'll try.