What can REALLY be done about CWD?

[megalomaniac]

Some of it was sarcasm, but truly interested in how you would go about treating them

You don't have to treat the existing herd, nor treat or eradicate the prion. All you have to do is find the gene that allows the prion to attach and infect the animal. Modify that gene to make the animal immune, then introduce a few animals in the herd to breed and spread that modified gene to their offspring. Those without the modified gene will die, while those with the modified gene will continue to live, thrive, and repopulate the herd through their offspring.

Sort of like BSK was saying... but instead of waiting 100s or 1000s of generations for the mutation providing protection to happen naturally, mankind can speed up that process.

 

[MickThompson]

Wouldn't be surprised if we don't find out Alzheimers dz is a similar human version of CWD in cervids.

Cure Alzheimers, and you have the same cure for cwd.

You can't really treat or cure a wild population though. A human can communicate symptoms but how would we evaluate deer to know which ones need treatment and when? Then you've got to catch that critter, treat it, and release it unharmed.

 

[Dumbluck]

Maybe someone smarter than me on this subject can add some light.

This disease was Discovered in the 1960s was it not? There was a lot of advancement in that time period, is it not possible that we just didn't have the technology or know how to discover it earlier? As far as we know this may have been around forever.

 

[MickThompson]

Stop eating grains, corn, beans. 50 years from now, tell your great grandkid he needs to die from a cancer at age 10 that would be easily curable through crisper genetic technology, but justify his death is supposed to happen at age 10 because God made him just the way he seen fit.

God gave us intelligence and curiosity. And the capability.of gaining knowledge which can cure or even prevent disease. I absolutely guarantee you the future of medicine is not going to be treating diseases and mitigating the damage once they have already developed, but rather preventing disease before it even happens based on genetic susceptibilities.

Heck, we are just starting to do that now. Look at Angelina Jolie... her grandmother died mid age of ovarian cancer, her mom died likewise. She found out she had the BRCA2 gene mutation which virtually guarantees she will get ovarian or breast cancer... so she had her breasts and ovaries removed BEFORE she developed cancer. In 50 years, her grandkids won't have to do that, because we will be able to splice out the BRCA2 gene mutation from her cells and replace it with the normal variant.

Animal and plant susceptibility to disease WILL be altered in the future through genetics. Heck, humans have already been doing it on a less scientific basis for thousands of years already. Hybrid vigor, selective breeding... all done by man allowed through God's gift of intelligence.

Every time we make something " better", nature catches up. Glyphosate resistant crops, the products we give our pets to fend off ticks and fleas, etc, are constantly having to be upgraded because what worked a few years ago just isn't getting it done anymore.

I don't know that CWD is a strong enough selection pressure to weed out less resistant individuals- sure, resistant or immune animals might reproduce more, but CWD susceptible ones will still be breeding and passing on genes. Assuming we can "snip out" the CWD susceptible gene, what else will we find out that particular gene did? Maybe nothing, or maybe something really important.

 

[Hawk103161]

You don't have to treat the existing herd, nor treat or eradicate the prion. All you have to do is find the gene that allows the prion to attach and infect the animal. Modify that gene to make the animal immune, then introduce a few animals in the herd to breed and spread that modified gene to their offspring. Those without the modified gene will die, while those with the modified gene will continue to live, thrive, and repopulate the herd through their offspring.

Sort of like BSK was saying... but instead of waiting 100s or 1000s of generations for the mutation providing protection to happen naturally, mankind can speed up that process.

Sounds like "Gain of Function" right there

 

[megalomaniac]

Sounds like "Gain of Function" right there

You have a dog? You think it's even remotely similar to the original wild dogs domesticated 1000s of years ago?

Gain of function. Not always a bad thing.

 

[Hawk103161]

You have a dog? You think it's even remotely similar to the original wild dogs domesticated 1000s of years ago?

Gain of function. Not always a bad thing.

no dog

 

[megalomaniac]

Every time we make something " better", nature catches up. Glyphosate resistant crops, the products we give our pets to fend off ticks and fleas, etc, are constantly having to be upgraded because what worked a few years ago just isn't getting it done anymore.

I don't know that CWD is a strong enough selection pressure to weed out less resistant individuals- sure, resistant or immune animals might reproduce more, but CWD susceptible ones will still be breeding and passing on genes. Assuming we can "snip out" the CWD susceptible gene, what else will we find out that particular gene did? Maybe nothing, or maybe something really important.

You don't need to worry about the deer susceptible to cwd. They die. The resistant deer live and breed.

Similar to the sickle cell trait and disease.

Developed in the tropics as a mutation of red blood cells to protect against malaria.

Have 1 copy of the gene, and you get natural resistance to malaria. Get 2 copies of the gene and you get sickle cell disease and die. But more folks died from malaria itself that the sickle gene mutation, so those with the gene protecting from malaria naturally produced many more offspring than those dead from malaria. And that's why 13% of the population originating from malaria infested regions carry the gene.

 

[MickThompson]

You don't need to worry about the deer susceptible to cwd. They die. The resistant deer live and breed.

Similar to the sickle cell trait and disease.

Developed in the tropics as a mutation of red blood cells to protect against malaria.

Have 1 copy of the gene, and you get natural resistance to malaria. Get 2 copies of the gene and you get sickle cell disease and die. But more folks died from malaria itself that the sickle gene mutation, so those with the gene protecting from malaria naturally produced many more offspring than those dead from malaria. And that's why 13% of the population originating from malaria infested regions carry the gene.

The ones that can get CWD are still reproducing though

 

[megalomaniac]

no dog

A wife?

Mankind has also worked it in the opposite direction....

1000s years ago, women with narrow pelvises died in childbirth. Nature selected for women with 'child bearing hips'. And those genes were passed on to the next generations. Those with narrow pelvises died and did not pass on those genes.

Less than 100y ago, antibiotics and successful surgeries came about. All of a sudden, women with inadequate pelvises were able to deliver by cesarean and survive. And their female offspring who inherited the genes for inadequate pelvises also survived... to then have children by their own. And when those daughters with inadequate pelvises grew up to have kids of their own... well guess what, they didn't die in childbirth, but rather survived and their offspring due to ceasreans birth.

Bottom line... you aren't going to beat CWD. The only hope is to wait for deer to mutate to become resistant to it (as BSK alluded to) or to speed up the process by making them resistant

 

[megalomaniac]

The ones that can get CWD are still reproducing though

If a doe with CWD only lives 4 years on average (I don't know the exact age of average death), while a resistant doe lives 15 to 18 years, the resistant deer will be outreproducing the susceptible deer by 4:1 initially over the animals lifetime. Won't take too long for the resistant deer to simply outreproduce the susceptible deer.

 

[MickThompson]

If a doe with CWD only lives 4 years on average (I don't know the exact age of average death), while a resistant doe lives 15 to 18 years, the resistant deer will be outreproducing the susceptible deer by 4:1 initially over the animals lifetime. Won't take too long for the resistant deer to simply outreproduce the susceptible deer.

If... that's a word that lets you take some real liberties with your assumptions.

Where are deer living to 10 years with any regularity?

 

[Chickenrig]

Rabbit hole

 

[fairchaser]

I've been hunting in the hot zone now for many years. Some of the years, we didn't even know it. Over that time, many deer have been harvested and some really nice bucks as well. One club member, just killed an 11 point buck that scored 150.

For those of us in our 50's, 60's and 70's, we likely won't see any meaningful cures in CWD in our hunting lifetime. While there are fewer deer on the landscape, there is still a huntable population with liberal bag limits.

Personally I'm going to try to enjoy the years I have left and leave the science to the experts. The question from the op was what can really be done about CWD? My answer to that is to maximize my enjoyment within the current regs.

 

[mike243]

Is there a test for humans to see if they might be infected with it and not show signs of it yet?

 

[rstodd]

Let it run its course.
In 100 years or longer the immune / resistant to CWD affects will only survive. Look at the Cernobal disaster. CWD or prions are similar to radiation in the way you can't get rid of it in the soil. The wild animals are surviving over there, because one the ones that are strong ate surviving.

 

[TNCharlie]

Maybe someone smarter than me on this subject can add some light.

This disease was Discovered in the 1960s was it not? There was a lot of advancement in that time period, is it not possible that we just didn't have the technology or know how to discover it earlier? As far as we know this may have been around forever.

Exactly!!!!!

 

[Ski]

As far as we know this may have been around forever.

That's been a theory from day 1.

 

[Remi]

We gonna tranquilize all these wild deer, and give them the cwd vaccine when it's found? Or you got something else in mind

Follow the science……


We're all in this together……


Get your boosters…….

 

[BSK]

Why would you think that would be feasable? Sarcasm?

The future of curing disease is through genetic alterations. Once you have the genetic cure, you simply introduce genetically resistant deer into the wild. Nature takes care of the rest.

And you don't even have to introduce genetically altered deer. Last time I saw the data, because of their breeding rituals/practices, white-tailed deer are one of the most genetically diverse mammalian species on the planet. They will work this out on their own.