TheLBLman, your stats

BSK

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Didn't want to highjack the Management thread, so

You wrote:
"I've been involved with the management of several thousand contiguous acres now for about two decades. A reasonable expectation is for hunters to harvest one buck 3 1/2 or older per 300 acres, and this is under a high level QDM-type program where less than 10% of the bucks killed are younger than 3 1/2. Most bucks 3 1/2 or older with an above average rack do get killed by the hunters."

Those are some pretty impressive stats. On average, we only kill a 3 1/2+ year-old buck per 380 acres. But then only 2 of the 5-6 hunters that hunt the property each year will hold off for a 3 1/2+ buck. The rest will shoot the first decent 2 1/2+ they see.

I'm also impressed the hunters on your lease kill most of the top-end 3 1/2s. The hunters on my place over the last 20 years have only been able to kill around 16% of the 3 1/2+ year-old bucks we know exist (through photo census).
 

TheLBLman

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Year-to-year datasets vary greatly.
While a reasonable expectation may be for hunters to kill one buck 3 1/2 or older per 300 acres, that doesn't necessarily happen consistently year by year.

Also, we are not killing every buck we believe is 3 1/2 or older. Most 3 1/2's are actually given a pass.

So on that alone, our data may be very skewed in comparison to yours. Most years, there will be a single top-end 2 1/2-yr-old killed (accidently, since our goal is for the minimum killing age to be 3 1/2), most others average 4 1/2, with most actually being 4 1/2. This area has also had a 2-buck limit during all the years the statewide limit was 3.

In this particular area, by TN's statewide deer hunting standards, I would describe the hunting pressure as neither low nor high, but moderate. Would also make a distinction between hunting pressure and harvest pressure. While the buck kill may seem low, the doe kill has long-term been equal to higher, and the hunters are still "hunting", and "disturbing" the deer, even without killing every one they see.

We are not killing most of the 3 1/2's, just saying it's a reasonable expectation that we shouldn't expect to kill more than one 3 1/2 or older buck (based on our shooter buck standards highly discouraging killing any buck younger than 3 1/2) per 300 acres.

The 3 1/2's we're killing tend to be mainly the ones with above average antler genetics
, leaving mainly the average & below to survive to 4 1/2 and older. And it would be extremely rare for a particular above average antlered buck to live past 4 1/2. (Note: Most TN bucks likely achieve their highest antler scores at either 5 1/2 or 6 1/2 yrs of age.)

Over the years, we have been trending towards fewer bucks being killed per acre mainly because individual hunters have raised their personal standards regarding what constitutes a "shooter" buck to them. Many have personal criteria way above the area's minimum of 3 1/2 or older. Personally, mine is generally 5 1/2 or older, yet perhaps annually I give a pass to a fully mature buck because either he's not my top "target" buck, or he has a 110" appearing rack.
 

TheLBLman

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During the 2019 season, we killed 1 buck per 428 acres.
Even though our goal is to take no bucks younger than 3 1/2, in 2019 we killed equal numbers of top-end 2 1/2's and rather average-antlered 4 1/2's. None older than 4 1/2 were killed, although some believed older were given a pass due to their small antlers. We did kill more 4 1/2's than 3 1/2's, but the average harvest age was brought down by the unusual number of 2 1/2's killed.

During the 2020 season, we killed only 1 buck per 500 acres. We killed no bucks older than 4 1/2, and the harvested bucks were equally split between 3 1/2 & 4 1/2. No 2 1/2's were killed. On this area, I personally passed up one I believed to be 5 1/2 due to his having an unappealing rack to me, and he was not my target buck. As an aside, my personal "target" buck was believed to be a 6 1/2 mainframe 8-pointer. Most bucks with the antler genetics of 5 on one side seem to get killed at younger ages due to hunter selectivity (antler high-grading).

During the 2021 season, we killed only 1 buck per 600 acres (ave age 4 1/2 or older).
It may seem we're going backwards, but this is really more a case of less intense killing, and the hunters raising their personal standards. It was also the result of the largest acorn crop, probably in my lifetime, and it was both whites & reds, with deer still mainly feeding on red oak acorns into March of 2022. This huge acorn crop greatly reduced daytime deer activity for us, and cultivated food plots ended up being a total waste of time & money.

In 2021, the youngest buck we killed was 3 1/2, the oldest were aged at 6 1/2 or older. One of the 6 1/2's was a mainframe 8 scoring @ 110, the best a mainframe 8 scoring @ 130, which is pretty typically of the particular bucks surviving to maturity. However, we had photographed an exceptional 2 1/2 mainframe 8 that appeared to score @ 130. We found him dead near a property line, cause of death unknown, but suspect he was gut-shot off the property, and died unrecovered within the boundaries.
 
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TheLBLman

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Biggest take-away I've had over the past couple decades, is that even with thousands of contiguous acreage, when it comes to buck management above a certain threshold, you are still more at the mercy of the hunting on the surrounding areas than you might expect. This is in large part due to the roaming nature of rutting bucks. Even the 20,000-acre Ames Plantation seems to have similar struggles in "managing" for higher-scoring older bucks.

IMO, in most areas of TN, and just generally speaking, you would need a minimum of 10,000 contiguous acres to consistently produce above average antlered mature bucks. You can easily produce mature bucks with much less acreage, but they will mostly be the ones no hunters desired to kill when they were younger (due to their average or below average antlers).

Yes, you can find exceptions to this, such as if one side of your acreage is some type of "refuge" where there is either no or a lot less buck hunting on a vast area of adjoining property. But as to ANYWHERE you have hunting, near impossible not to have hunters high-grading the antlers, i.e. killing off the genetically best antlered bucks at 2 1/2 & 3 1/2, leaving mainly the below average antlered bucks to survive to 4 1/2 or older. About the only way to consistently produce top-end mature bucks is to have zero hunting.

That said, here in one of TN's top 3 "big" buck counties, only a tiny percentage of bucks seem to be born with the genetic capability of growing 150-plus gross scoring antlers. Most of these will be killed before they can "express" their genetic potential. Similar can probably be said for most areas of Kentucky & Illinois, but those born there are more easily able to "express" more of their potential at younger ages due to better soils and nutrition. It's probably accurate to say that the average buck born in Stewart Co., TN has to survive to 4 1/2 to sport antlers scoring comparable to the average 3 1/2-yr-old buck born in the adjoining Trigg Co., KY.
 
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TheLBLman

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Most hunters have unrealistic expectations as to what deer management can and cannot do.

Antler restrictions most commonly are counter-productive in producing higher scoring mature bucks, as about all most antler restrictions do is protect yearling and average-antler young bucks, at the expense of causing a higher kill of the better antlered young bucks. Criteria based on age seems to be the best way to produce more top-end mature bucks, but to be more effective, that age would need to be at least 4 1/2, which is unreasonable for most hunters. Even where most hunters in a group might find it "reasonable", they will typically not have enough acreage to make it work well.

But on an individual hunter basis, you can greatly increase your personal odds by setting reasonable "shooter" buck standards, based more on age than score, and you personally will have better odds of taking older, higher scoring bucks, no matter where you end up hunting, no matter what the other hunters do.
 

BSK

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Most hunters have unrealistic expectations as to what deer management can and cannot do.

Antler restrictions most commonly are counter-productive in producing higher scoring mature bucks, as about all most antler restrictions do is protect yearling and average-antler young bucks, at the expense of causing a higher kill of the better antlered young bucks. Criteria based on age seems to be the best way to produce more top-end mature bucks, but to be more effective, that age would need to be at least 4 1/2, which is unreasonable for most hunters. Even where most hunters in a group might find it "reasonable", they will typically not have enough acreage to make it work well.
COMPLETELY agree with the above.
But on an individual hunter basis, you can greatly increase your personal odds by setting reasonable "shooter" buck standards, based more on age than score, and you personally will have better odds of taking older, higher scoring bucks, no matter where you end up hunting, no matter what the other hunters do.
Also agree. Personally, because deer hunting for me - at my age - is purely entertainment/relaxation, I will shoot any buck I believe to be 3 1/2, regardless of antler score. I like the realistic opportunity to kill a buck every year.
 

TheLBLman

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Personally, because deer hunting for me - at my age - is purely entertainment/relaxation, I will shoot any buck I believe to be 3 1/2, regardless of antler score.
We're each a bit different - at whatever age - as to how we define our enjoyment.
I often find more enjoyment in giving a particular 3 1/2-old buck a pass than in killing him. In fact, more years than not, I will kill a mature buck whose antlers "score" less than a 3 1/2-yr-old one given a pass a few days earlier.

Part of my enjoyment comes in creating better opportunities for the next year.
I also have learned that older bucks often trail younger ones, and many opportunities (same day) are forfeited for a mature buck because the hunter chose to kill (same day), say a 3 1/2, not realizing a 4 1/2 or older was about 200 yards behind.

I like the realistic opportunity to kill a buck every year.
I have never felt I I didn't have that.
Just choose to let most bucks walk, and enjoy that aspect of being a hunter-manager.
 

BSK

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Our hunting is a bit different simply because it is family land hunted for entertainment. In addition, we only see very high hunting pressure during two weeks of the season: opening week of MZ and opening week of gun. During those two weeks we usually have 5-6 hunters hunting. Other than that, just 2-3 hunters on scattered weekends until the end of the season (no hunting during bow season). For those hunters hunting the opening weeks of MZ and gun, often that is their only week of hunting for the year, hence they will gladly shoot the first decent 2 1/2+ buck they see. Our only buck harvest rule is "no yearlings." However, there are exceptions for new/youth hunters. In addition, a few yearlings (usually sub-legal spikes) have been killed as "does."

We break our data into the "early years," when the property experienced little hunting pressure, versus the "modern era," the point at which hunters began placing more than 200 hours of hunting pressure (actual hours spent in the treestand) on the property annually. This began in 2001.

So from 2001 until the present:

Average annual hours hunted: 299
Average annual acres/buck killed: 155

Percent of antlered harvest
1 1/2: 10%
2 1/2: 50%
3 1/2: 24%
4 1/2: 11%
5 1/2+: 5%
 
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DoubleRidge

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I have truly enjoyed reading this thread. Very interesting to read the stats and compare to my own personal experiences. Extremely interesting actually.....my only regret is I wish I would have kept better records in the earlier years.....but LBLman and BSK have both motivated me to keep better records going forward.... Thanks.
 

BSK

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I have truly enjoyed reading this thread. Very interesting to read the stats and compare to my own personal experiences. Extremely interesting actually.....my only regret is I wish I would have kept better records in the earlier years.....but LBLman and BSK have both motivated me to keep better records going forward.... Thanks.
Unfortunately, I'm afflicted with the "data disease." My mind can only see patterns in things if the information is broken down into numbers. And from the first day we owned our property, I began collecting data on EVERYTHING. I tried to think of every way hunting experiences could be recorded in numeric format. Now probably 80% of the data ends up being meaningless. But I would rather have it than look back after 10 years and lament I didn't start collecting a particular type of data from day one. I distinctly remember thinking, "Why am I collecting all this data? It will be YEARS before it means anything." True. But that was 35 years ago. Now it means something! Honestly, it started to "mean something" after only 4 or 5 years.

It also helped that at the time we bought the property, I was working for the Census Bureau creating work-flow and record-keeping databases. So I had a bit of a background in organizing and analyzing data.
 

Ski

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Unfortunately, I'm afflicted with the "data disease." My mind can only see patterns in things if the information is broken down into numbers. And from the first day we owned our property, I began collecting data on EVERYTHING. I tried to think of every way hunting experiences could be recorded in numeric format. Now probably 80% of the data ends up being meaningless. But I would rather have it than look back after 10 years and lament I didn't start collecting a particular type of data from day one. I distinctly remember thinking, "Why am I collecting all this data? It will be YEARS before it means anything." True. But that was 35 years ago. Now it means something! Honestly, it started to "mean something" after only 4 or 5 years.

It also helped that at the time we bought the property, I was working for the Census Bureau creating work-flow and record-keeping databases. So I had a bit of a background in organizing and analyzing data.

No such thing as meaningless data. Even it turns out to not be beneficial, you still gleaned that from it. And at some point for currently unforeseen reasons it may become relevant and valuable.

Which data sets have helped you be a better hunter? Is there anything that you've patterned that has given a eureka moment? Those questions are for you or LBL or anybody else who wouldn't mind sharing something like that. Interesting topic!
 

BSK

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Which data sets have helped you be a better hunter? Is there anything that you've patterned that has given a eureka moment? Those questions are for you or LBL or anybody else who wouldn't mind sharing something like that. Interesting topic!
Much of the most important analyses came from a combination of observation data and the ability to link that into Geographic Information System (GIS) data (I have a background in GIS development due to my time at the Census Bureau). The first important analysis involved looking at where older bucks were being seen by hunters compared to the layout of thick cover habitat on the property. At the time I ran the analysis, I found that 80% of bucks 2 1/2 years old were seen from stands within 100 yards of thick cover (close to or actually within visual range of the cover habitat). I also found 100% of 3 1/2+ year-old bucks were seen from stands within 100 yards of thick cover. Lesson learned: set stands within visual range of thick cover.

A second, and far more complicated analysis, looked at habitat diversity. I was able to develop a program that divided the property into a 10-yard by 10-yard grid, and then assign a "habitat diversity score" to each grid. The program did this by drawing a 100-yard radius circle from the center of each grid and counting the number of different habitat types that fell within that circle. The program then assigned that diversity number to that grid-square. I then analyzed all of our observation data "spatially." In essence, because our observation data is linked to the GIS through each stands Lat-Long position, I could produce a "topo map" of deer observation rates. I could then cross-correlate the two data sets, run a statistical analysis for all of the grid-squares using habitat diversity as it relates to deer observation rates. What I found was there is a near linear relationship between habitat diversity for a given location and deer sighting rates for that location. Lesson learned: stands that overlook the most habitat types produce the highest deer sightings (with the exception of big, homogenous oak flats in a good acorn year, which can be great).

Of all the data analyses I've run, the one that has improved our success rate on older bucks - especially mature bucks - the most has been our analysis of the cumulative effects of past hunting pressure. We had noted that we often find a new stand site that is red hot the first year, and still pretty good the second year. But by the third year sightings declined significantly, and by the fourth year the stand was dead. We realized we were burning out those stands, but we were also running out of ideas on where to put stands (we hunt exclusively from ladder stands pre-positioned before the season opens). To find stands for hunting hunter-wary bucks, I now run an spatial analysis each year that uses the past three years of hunting pressure. This spatial analysis creates a "topo map" of our hunting pressure, and what we look for are holes in our hunting pressure - areas of the property that are not being hunted (for whatever reason). Once these holes are located, we place a stand somewhere in that hole, using terrain and habitat as a guide. One thing we don't focus on is buck sign. Quite often these areas have gone unhunted because there is a lack of buck sign in the area. But this one technique - identifying holes in our past hunting pressure, and forcing ourselves to at least give those areas a try - has revolutionized our success on mature bucks. The VAST majority of the mature bucks we kill come from one of these "hunting pressure hole" stands, despite the fact these locations often contain no buck sign at all. Lesson learned: Identify where you haven't been hunting, and hunt there! Mature bucks are highly sensitive to hunting pressure and will shift their movement patterns towards the areas where they encounter the least human intrusion. And mature bucks don't make sign equally everywhere they go. Their travel routes from Point A to Point B may display little sign.

The following important info didn't come from all the observation data I collect, but from a long-term research project I've mentioned many times here, and that is the decade-long Rub Density and Distribution Study I conducted. In that study, post-season, we would run random transits all over the property, and then walk those transits counting/marking all of the rubs we found along the transit lines. The transits were divided up by what type of terrain they were running across. In addition, we measured the distance from each rub to any nearby habitat edge. We could then look at the rub densities per acre for each of the different terrain types we have on the property as well as measure the effect habitat edges have on rub densities. Although everyone who hunts ridge-and-hollow terrain understands bucks like to walk ridge-lines, and often make rubs along those ridge-lines, I found that secondary points that drop down off those ridge-lines have even higher rub densities. And by "secondary points," I'm using the term like bass fisherman do: not the ending point of a long ridge, but a small point that drops perpendicularly off the side of a main ridge. I also found that habitat edges that run down secondary point or along ridge-lines increase the rub densities in those locations five-fold. Lessons learned: 1) Although saddles in ridge-lines are great hunting locations, where a secondary point drops away from a ridge-line is often better. 2) When designing habitat changes for a property, purposefully create habitat edges that run down secondary points and along ridge-lines. These will become highly predictable buck travel routes.
 

BSK

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Another analysis that has been very educational and useful involves looking at how often stands are hunted in a given hunting season. But to fully understand why this situation is so critical in our situation, one needs to understand a couple of unique features about our hunting. First, our hunting is very concentrated. 80% of the total treestand time we spend each year is during the month of November. That is our rut month and the best chance to see/kill older bucks. So most of our hunting occurs during MZ season and the first two weeks of gun season. When you spend many back-to-back days hunting, not overhunting stands can be a critical factor. Second, our property is all ridge-and-hollow hardwoods. We have few long-range shooting opportunities. Other than stands overlooking our scattered 0.5 to 1.5-acre food plots, most of our stands are "back in the woods." These stand locations are taking advantage of terrain and habitat features, hence most shooting opportunities are very close range. The average MZ and gun kill distance is 35 yards. Shooting opportunities beyond 60 yards are rare. This is a very different situation than many hunters have, who are hunting over big open fields and targeting deer hundreds of yards away - deer that have no idea a hunter is nearby. The deer we are targeting are deer that walk right past our stands regularly and have every opportunity to pick up on our scent left around the stands. It only takes a shift in movement of 50 or 60 yards to be able to avoid our stands, and hunter-wary deer quickly learn to do so.

So with that in mind, I go back to our problem of stands going "dead" over time. This is not only true year to year, but within the same year if the stand is hunted too often. To see how strong this effect is numerically, I began analyzing our buck observation data for each time a stand is hunted in a given year (and again, remember most of our hunts occur in a single month). I look at the buck observation rate for all stands the first time they are hunted that year. Then the second time and the third time, etc. What I found was buck observations were highest the first time a stand is hunted in a given year, and buck sighting rates rapidly decline with each subsequent time the stand is hunted. This effect is strongest when looking at just the sighting rate of older bucks. For 2 1/2+ year-old bucks, sighting rates decline 33% from the 1st to the 2nd time a stand is hunted. The decline increases to 48% the 3rd time it is hunted. They are down 60% by the 4th time the stand is hunted, and down 64% by the time the stand is hunted for the 5th time.

The decline in sighting rates detailed above are for all stands combined. We also break our stands down into three categories: "new" stands (stands that were moved during the summer and this will be the first year they have been hunted), 2nd year stands, and stands that have been in place 3 or more years. When analyzing the older buck sighting rates for stands in each of these three categories for each time they are hunted in a given year, two interesting patterns emerged. First, the older buck sighting rate for "new" stands does not decline as fast with repeated hunts as it does for 2nd year and 3+ year stands. In fact, invariably, some of these "new" stands are going to be the hottest stands on the property, and older buck sightings continue no matter how many times they are hunted. Second, when it comes to their first hunt of the year, on average 2nd year stands actually outperform "new" stands. Why is that? It comes down to which stands get moved in the summer, pre-season. We primarily move stands that have been in place for too many years and have gone dead, as well as "new" stands from the previous year that ended up being "duds." As discussed in my earlier post about how we find "holes" in our past hunting pressure and move stands to these locations regardless of buck sign, sometimes this proves fantastically successful and sometimes it doesn't. In fact, about 50% of these stands moved to hunting pressure holes end up being busts. However, the other 50% or the hottest stands on the property that first year. So the ones that end up being busts get moved the next summer. What this leaves for 2nd year stands is only the stands that were really hot their first year. These stands end up having the highest "1st hunt of the year" older buck sighting rates. However, they do decline rapidly after the 1st or 2nd hunt that year, unlike the "new" stands that end up being red hot and hold their own through the season.

Lessons learned: be the first person to hunt each of the 2nd year stands. They produce the highest older buck sighting rates because they were the red hot stands the previous year. Once all of these stands have been hunted once or twice, switch to the "new" stands that are proving to be the hot ones. Older buck sighting rates do not decline that much over repeated hunts for those stands.
 

Thelonegoose

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Another analysis that has been very educational and useful involves looking at how often stands are hunted in a given hunting season. But to fully understand why this situation is so critical in our situation, one needs to understand a couple of unique features about our hunting. First, our hunting is very concentrated. 80% of the total treestand time we spend each year is during the month of November. That is our rut month and the best chance to see/kill older bucks. So most of our hunting occurs during MZ season and the first two weeks of gun season. When you spend many back-to-back days hunting, not overhunting stands can be a critical factor. Second, our property is all ridge-and-hollow hardwoods. We have few long-range shooting opportunities. Other than stands overlooking our scattered 0.5 to 1.5-acre food plots, most of our stands are "back in the woods." These stand locations are taking advantage of terrain and habitat features, hence most shooting opportunities are very close range. The average MZ and gun kill distance is 35 yards. Shooting opportunities beyond 60 yards are rare. This is a very different situation than many hunters have, who are hunting over big open fields and targeting deer hundreds of yards away - deer that have no idea a hunter is nearby. The deer we are targeting are deer that walk right past our stands regularly and have every opportunity to pick up on our scent left around the stands. It only takes a shift in movement of 50 or 60 yards to be able to avoid our stands, and hunter-wary deer quickly learn to do so.

So with that in mind, I go back to our problem of stands going "dead" over time. This is not only true year to year, but within the same year if the stand is hunted too often. To see how strong this effect is numerically, I began analyzing our buck observation data for each time a stand is hunted in a given year (and again, remember most of our hunts occur in a single month). I look at the buck observation rate for all stands the first time they are hunted that year. Then the second time and the third time, etc. What I found was buck observations were highest the first time a stand is hunted in a given year, and buck sighting rates rapidly decline with each subsequent time the stand is hunted. This effect is strongest when looking at just the sighting rate of older bucks. For 2 1/2+ year-old bucks, sighting rates decline 33% from the 1st to the 2nd time a stand is hunted. The decline increases to 48% the 3rd time it is hunted. They are down 60% by the 4th time the stand is hunted, and down 64% by the time the stand is hunted for the 5th time.

The decline in sighting rates detailed above are for all stands combined. We also break our stands down into three categories: "new" stands (stands that were moved during the summer and this will be the first year they have been hunted), 2nd year stands, and stands that have been in place 3 or more years. When analyzing the older buck sighting rates for stands in each of these three categories for each time they are hunted in a given year, two interesting patterns emerged. First, the older buck sighting rate for "new" stands does not decline as fast with repeated hunts as it does for 2nd year and 3+ year stands. In fact, invariably, some of these "new" stands are going to be the hottest stands on the property, and older buck sightings continue no matter how many times they are hunted. Second, when it comes to their first hunt of the year, on average 2nd year stands actually outperform "new" stands. Why is that? It comes down to which stands get moved in the summer, pre-season. We primarily move stands that have been in place for too many years and have gone dead, as well as "new" stands from the previous year that ended up being "duds." As discussed in my earlier post about how we find "holes" in our past hunting pressure and move stands to these locations regardless of buck sign, sometimes this proves fantastically successful and sometimes it doesn't. In fact, about 50% of these stands moved to hunting pressure holes end up being busts. However, the other 50% or the hottest stands on the property that first year. So the ones that end up being busts get moved the next summer. What this leaves for 2nd year stands is only the stands that were really hot their first year. These stands end up having the highest "1st hunt of the year" older buck sighting rates. However, they do decline rapidly after the 1st or 2nd hunt that year, unlike the "new" stands that end up being red hot and hold their own through the season.

Lessons learned: be the first person to hunt each of the 2nd year stands. They produce the highest older buck sighting rates because they were the red hot stands the previous year. Once all of these stands have been hunted once or twice, switch to the "new" stands that are proving to be the hot ones. Older buck sighting rates do not decline that much over repeated hunts for those stands.
Have you had on older "dead" stand become revitalized? I have noticed similar observations on our farm. However, I do not move my stands as frequently. I have noticed if I leave one stand alone for pretty much a full season, it will improve the following year but is quick to dissipate once it gets hunted a couple of times.
 

BSK

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Have you had on older "dead" stand become revitalized? I have noticed similar observations on our farm. However, I do not move my stands as frequently. I have noticed if I leave one stand alone for pretty much a full season, it will improve the following year but is quick to dissipate once it gets hunted a couple of times.
Yes. Once a past hotspot that has gone dead has been left alone for 3-4 years, it often returns to becoming a hotspot. When you think about it, most male deer disperse from their birth range as 1-year-olds. So their first year in a given location during hunting season is as a yearling. Their second year in that location is as a 2 1/2 year-old. Their third year as a 3 1/2 year-old. If an ex-hotspot hasn't been hunted in 3-4 years, that buck goes into maturity never having been hunted from that spot, hence he does not know to avoid it.
 

TheLBLman

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BSK has some excellent observations, and the hard data to document it.
I have mostly anecdotal evidence, but mostly all congruent with his data.
And, my observations cover a longer time horizon ;)

Lessons learned: be the first person to hunt each of the 2nd year stands. They produce the highest older buck sighting rates because they were the red hot stands the previous year. Once all of these stands have been hunted once or twice, switch to the "new" stands that are proving to be the hot ones. Older buck sighting rates do not decline that much over repeated hunts for those stands.

THIS is why I continue to do most my hunting from portable climbing stands!
I frequently relocate, not just where I hunt daily, but the stand itself.
But often only move @ 75 yds from one day to the next.

I make most my stand moves @ 1pm daily, as this has most often been the most "dead" time of most days, and the time of day when I'm least likely to be seen or heard while moving my stand 75 yds or so. During November, I'm typically an all-day hunter, often, hunting the morning where I had hunted the previous afternoon, then relocating that climber mid-day, hunting @ 75 yds in the afternoon from where was afternoon before. That afternoon stand become the next morning's stand.

I do occasionally use other types stands, but as above stated, is my most common way of deer hunting in TN. Relocating during early afternoon provides a little "break", and I'm hunting a new spot every day. This makes all-day hunting "easier" (new view, every day). From the time I climb down until the time I'm back on perch in the new location is usually less than an hour, meaning I'm only not "on stand" hunting between @ 1 to 2 pm.

Also, hunters who go back to their truck or camp after a morning's hunt, are "disturbing" their general hunting areas about 10x more than I am by only relocating @ 75 yds mid-day, then only coming & going under the cover of darkness. For whatever reasons, traveling under the cover of darkness will not disturb local deer anything like it does during daylight. If you must move during daytime, between 1 & 2P typically provides more wind, to prevent distant deer from noticing your movement, and this extra early afternoon air circulation helps dissipate your scent.

BSK would be shocked at how many mature bucks I've killed between 11 & 12N over the years, as his data may suggest little movement. My thinking is these bucks "cut a lot of diagonals", traveling by sight towards a visible doe, and more often do not walk in front of the trail cams positioned more on the trails that most often best pick up the activity. These older buck also often wait until the wind picks up around mid-morning before they will move much linear distance, which they often do pretty fast, perhaps in times past too fast for many our older trail cams to catch them.

EVERYTHING is different when hunting a mature buck.
Think of them as a different species.
 
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Specializedjon

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Feb 25, 2019
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Culleoka (Middle TN)
Do I get college credits for finishing this read? 🤪 I haven't done that much reading in years. MAN....y'all never cease to amaze me on the amount of knowledge you have acquired. I appreciate you taking the time to share it. I currently manage 10's and 10's of acres 😅 so it'll be a little easier for me to keep track of my stats. To be quite honest, I'm hunting meat, not trophies. If I see a legal deer (2 1/2+)....his/her days are probably numbered. It's goin in the freezer.

Thanks again guys. Very impressive read.
 

BSK

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Mar 11, 1999
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81,520
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Nashville, TN
THIS is why I continue to do most my hunting from portable climbing stands!
I frequently relocate, not just where I hunt daily, but the stand itself.
But often only move @ 75 yds from one day to the next.

I make most my stand moves @ 1pm daily, as this has most often been the most "dead" time of most days, and the time of day when I'm least likely to be seen or heard while moving my stand 75 yds or so. During November, I'm typically an all-day hunter, often, hunting the morning where I had hunted the previous afternoon, then relocating that climber mid-day, hunting @ 75 yds in the afternoon from where was afternoon before. That afternoon stand become the next morning's stand.
^^^^
If a hunter wants to maximize their chances at killing mature bucks, THIS is the way to do it!

I've just gotten too lazy in my old age...
 

BSK

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Messages
81,520
Location
Nashville, TN
BSK would be shocked at how many mature bucks I've killed between 11 & 12N over the years, as his data may suggest little movement. My thinking is these bucks "cut a lot of diagonals", traveling by sight towards a visible doe, and more often do not walk in front of the trail cams positioned more on the trails that most often best pick up the activity. These older buck also often wait until the wind picks up around mid-morning before they will move much linear distance, which they often do pretty fast, perhaps in times past too fast for many our older trail cams to catch them.
Actually, I would be less shocked than in years past. Last year, I started a research project looking at when bucks visit scrapes. And now that I have most scrape cams converted to running video, I can assess their behavior at the scrapes. Considering this was just a project looking at scrape visits, I only recorded those video captures where the buck actually came to the scrape. I ignored captures where the buck was just walking by in the background. But while I was collecting this data, I noticed an inordinate number of bucks "just walking by in the background" after 10 AM. So this year, I'm recollecting the data to look at ALL buck trail-cam captures, and recording the date, time and age of the buck. The preliminary data is suggesting that under certain conditions (especially a poor acorn year in a hardwood environment), buck movement from 10 AM to noon is more significant than I previously thought.
 

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