The end of things …

[fairchaser]

I could maybe understand it some with the shooting more deer if we were finding more deer dead. We shed hunt a lot and more now since dogs are involved. We scout after season in places we never walked before. Honestly in these area and even beside ground zero, Ames we hardly ever find a dead deer. I really believe we were finding more before CWD hit. Deer get sick from things like us humans do. They die of old age and such even with that we hardly find one. Even road kills. But ask TWRA how many dead deer have they found that died from CWD. They can't tell you because it hasn't happened. Our herd didn't die off and be scattered in the fields and woods from CWD for you to see I assure you. They died from TWRA putting a bounty on them. Heck they even have a deal where you kill so many for testing they'll give you a FREE Sportsman License the next year. Ask yourself this, if so many deer are dying from CWD then why ain't you constantly seeing buzzards on your hunting spots circling. You'd have carcasses everywhere. That's not happening here.

It's very rare that a deer will just fall over in the woods from CWD. But, they will get hit by cars, killed by hunters, drown in a lake or succumb to disease or starvation. Come up to the check station at Ames and see all the deadheads that have been found. Also, I think does with CWD won't breed, won't conceive or won't raise a fawn in their later stages. Deer with CWD are 5 times more likely to die from other causes.

 

[7mmWSM]

Ames ? As in the bird dog trial place?

Yes

 

[DeerCamp]

It's very rare that a deer will just fall over in the woods from CWD. But, they will get hit by cars, killed by hunters, drown in a lake or succumb to disease or starvation. Come up to the check station at Ames and see all the deadheads that have been found. Also, I think does with CWD won't breed, won't conceive or won't raise a fawn in their later stages. Deer with CWD are 5 times more likely to die from other causes.

Our best hope here is that some deer develop resistance and build the herd back up eventually. Might take a long time.

 

[Chiflyguy]

I'd love to find a place to take my grandsons hunting. Maybe it's time to transition to a more kid friendly place.

Maybe that's what you need to relight the fire.
Become the teacher and raise the next generation.

 

[notgreg]

I'm curious what management rules/regs are in places where CWD has been around for many years and how they differ from what has been discussed in this thread. I mean wouldn't someone follow the advice of those people from those areas?

Illinois runs a "targeted surveillance and management" program that employs sharpshooters in specific, high prevalence areas to reduce the herd, along with more lax harvest regulations in certain areas. They're taking deer off the landscape to slow the spread to other areas, though it looks like they're doing it with more precision. Not sure how well it is received there, or what the details are, but according to their DNR it is working (for what that's worth).

I'm not from Illinois and haven't hunted there, so I don't have a clue one way or another. But a friend hunts Illinois in affected areas and doesn't seem too fed up with how it's all playing out.

More info here:

https://dnr.illinois.gov/content/dam/soi/en/web/dnr/programs/cwd/documents/cwd-fact-vs-fiction.pdf

 

[CBU93]

On the property I have access to in the "epicenter", a phenomenon that I have not seen mentioned yet is the fact that deer observation had been declining for several years prior to the first positive test result. Mostly blamed on environmental conditions and bumper mast crops keeping deer in the woods vs feeding in the fields where those high numbers could be seen.

 

[Lost Lake]

Until this thread I was in the same thought. Nothing made sense. CWD has been around at least 40yrs, probably forever, and is found in several countries around the northern hemisphere worldwide. It's not killing off animals at a rapid, measurable rate anywhere else but we're supposed to believe that it is in a couple west TN counties? Like most other folks I was calling BS. But this thread has made me raise an eyebrow to something I didn't consider before.

Up until now I was relating west TN to everywhere else. Some places have lots of deer. Some places have few deer. CWD is the same regardless. But then I read reports of just how many deer there were in west TN. Can you imagine seeing upwards of 100 deer in a 3hr sit? One poster claimed 40-50 deer seen in a day on a 180 acre property. That's a herd density of 142 deer/sq mile, or 4.5 deer/acre. It seems ridiculous but I outright asked if it was an exaggeration and it was corroborated by several other posters. There's no reason to think anybody is lying, so the only take away is that there used to be an astronomically high density of deer for a very long time in a relatively small area. Given what we know about how CWD spreads, it's only logical that in an environment like that it would spread like wildfire. And since conditions like that don't exist anywhere else on the planet, CWD hasn't been the big deal that it is there in west TN. It's akin to kids starting back to school in fall. They all get sick because suddenly they're all placed in a confined space together. That high density of individuals rapidly accelerates the spread of a contagen.

Which brings me to TWRA. Until now I have been an outspoken opponent of how they're handling the situation. I couldn't understand such a gross overreaction. Now I do. Drastic times call for drastic measures. Doesn't mean I am now on board with how they're approaching the problem, only that now I finally understand why they're taking such a dramatic approach. The why is what's been missing all this time. Now I get it. Of course they're going to see a gross amplification of what CWD can do because they have a gross amplification of what a typical herd density looks like. Does TWRA deserve criticism for they're handling of CWD? Probably. I think it's fair. I believe they've screwed some things up, and in light of recent legal issues it's plausible they screwed up real bad. But given the unprecidented circumstances I can longer criticize their decisions because they're dealing with a situation nobody aside from fenced deer farms has ever had to deal with before, so there were no examples for them to follow.

So I don't know. I couldn't figure out why west TN was so different, why TWRA was being so extreme when nothing like that was being done anywhere else. Now I know it was because of the population density, and it makes total sense. That would be the only plausible reason to handle things the way TWRA is doing it. And if the core issue that allows CWD to become so prevalent is population density, then wouldn't the logical approach be thinning the herd to more manageable, healthy numbers? I didn't mean to write a novel, just emptying some thoughts into words. I don't have any answers and won't pretend to. Going forward I think i'll withold judgement and just observe.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. However, as much as I hate to admit it, the 80's-90's were quite a while ago. Liberal doe limits have been in effect for around 25 years now, and I don't see anything like the deer numbers on our farm over in Henry county. It was nothing to see 20-30 deer in a sit during those years, but not now. I'm sure it could be different farther over west, especially southwest. I have no experience with hunting in those areas back then.

I've tried not to be too critical of TWRA on this, but to the laymen, something doesn't smell right, even before the whistleblower scene.

 

[fairchaser]

Our best hope here is that some deer develop resistance and build the herd back up eventually. Might take a long time.

I think you're right. I don't think science can fix this but the deer have a way to survive. Nature will find a way. Probably not in my lifetime unfortunately.

 

[BSK]

That sounds about right for Ames even in its heyday. A sighting of a buck that would score 125 was once or twice a season. Many hunters has 120 hours on stand during a season. I'd love to see the stats this year but we don't get those anymore.

Several of the hunters on my place have NEVER in their entire hunting careers seen a buck scoring over 125. Our average 3 1/2 scores 105. Average 4 1/2, 120.

 

[BSK]

Our best hope here is that some deer develop resistance and build the herd back up eventually. Might take a long time.

That is our ONLY hope and the way the herd should be managed. No one - not one state - has reduced their CWD infection rate, no matter what they tried. The ONLY hope for white-tailed deer is their natural ability to find immunity among their highly genetically diverse population.

 

[easy45]

It's being felt all around Ames also, but CWD hasn't been the only issue, Ames has been a big contributing factor to the downfall.

 

[Creek]

Are CWD Deer Safe to Eat?

With all the discussion on the spread of CWD these days, many have asked, "Are CWD deer safe to eat?" Here's a look at the answer.

www.bowhunting.com

After reading this article I found that CWD was first discovered in the early 80s, which I'm sure most of you already knew, and not one death or sickness in well over 40 years.
I am in no way saying that it won't happen one day, but until it is undoubtedly confirmed that someone got sick or died, then I will likely not change my mind about eating deer. I understand there are other health concerns for the quality of the herds, but for those of us who primarily do it for consumption, should not be concerned imo
But that's just me.

From the article above;
Like Richards stated, we cannot rule out that CWD can be transmitted to humans, but no stories of human health issues tied to venison consumption have held up under scrutiny.

That is our ONLY hope and the way the herd should be managed. No one - not one state - has reduced their CWD infection rate, no matter what they tried. The ONLY hope for white-tailed deer is their natural ability to find immunity among their highly genetically diverse population.

I may have misread, but I was thinking Illinois made a difference using a combination of different methods. I'm not sure that a person can use the term "reduced" but I believe they did flatline according to this article that was posted earlier.

https://dnr.illinois.gov/content/dam/soi/en/web/dnr/programs/cwd/documents/cwd-fact-vs-fiction.pdf

 

[tellico4x4]

I'm curious what management rules/regs are in places where CWD has been around for many years and how they differ from what has been discussed in this thread. I mean wouldn't someone follow the advice of those people from those areas?

Hunted SD last year where it's been for years. Nobody talks about it, they let deer do what deer do & same for hunters. Same when hunted NE this year as well, no big deal. Mule deer are hurting in both those states as they are throughout the West but whitetail are thriving and some big ones as well. Many states west of MS River have large areas where there are no whitetail but where they do have them, they are highly concentrated.

 

[7mmWSM]

Ames has been a big contributing factor to the downfall.

Well said. And truthfully blame can't all be put on the hunters. They're doing what their told to do in order to hunt there. The decline in their herd was started many years ago and not from CWD.

 

[Creek]

Hunted SD last year where it's been for years. Nobody talks about it, they let deer do what deer do & same for hunters. Same when hunted NE this year as well, no big deal. Mule deer are hurting in both those states as they are throughout the West but whitetail are thriving and some big ones as well. Many states west of MS River have large areas where there are no whitetail but where they do have them, they are highly concentrated.

That makes sense to me, but I'm no expert on the matter.

 

[dogsled]

After reading this article I found that CWD was first discovered in the early 80s, which I'm sure most of you already knew, and not one death or sickness in well

I thought it was first detected in Elk in the 70's, but either way it has been around a while. I don't believe that it will lead to the extinction of deer given that we still have plenty of elk roaming out west.

I grew up hunting and everyone in my family and social circle hunted and fished. We did it to put food on the table. That aspect is gone for most people these days it seems and I would not go hungry if I didn't hunt.

As many others here have stated, my drive to hunt has diminished with age and change in circumstances. I still have places to hunt, my own and others. My best hunting/fishing buddy moved away and my second best never has the time due to work and family, so the camaraderie aspect is gone. Very few hunters in my work or social circles. I have been in a couple of different clubs for a while, but the politics and infighting between members was enough to push me out of those.

I will continue to hunt and fish as long as I am able and still get that rush every time I see some brown slipping through the woods or set a hook. But I don't have the zeal for it that I used to have.

 

[Kelljp]

My deer hunting days are pretty much behind me. I'll go a couple of days with some of my younger friends during muzzleloader, more for the camping than the hunting. The loss of farms to subdivisions and most of my hunting buddies gone on to their reward, I guess the drive isn't there anymore. Been reading data from other states about this season, Nebraska says they have checked in 18% fewer, upper peninsula of Michigan stats show a 39% decrease in tagged deer this year.
Is the decline the deer herd or the hunter participation in this day and time ?

 

[Creek]

I thought it was first detected in Elk in the 70's

You are more than likely correct.
Though CWD was mentioned, I don't believe that was the intent of the OP.
I feel the same as many others in some ways. I do have to ask for help when hanging and skinning the deer. I can do almost everything else after the hide is removed. Time sure fly faster the older I get.

 

[killingtime 41]

When you go multiple times and don't see deer. Take a break try to reset the brain and then the same crap. Maybe TWRA should focus more and should have been on increasing the population in places like N East TN. Tons of farms I use to hunt now have new houses all over them and subdivisions. So hunting public land. Wish TWRA would actually get us some decent sized land over this way. Besides N Cherokee. Like lots of other areas west of here have.

 

[TheLBLman]

Like Richards stated, we cannot rule out that CWD can be transmitted to humans, but no stories of human health issues tied to venison consumption have held up under scrutiny.

More people die from eating lettuce every month,
than have died from ever eating venison in the past 50 yrs?

Restaurant "Salad Bars" are infinitely more deadly to humans
than consuming venison actually known to be infected with CWD.