Straight wall cartridges for muzzleloader?

[knightrider]

I have absolutely no problem with everyone shooting whatever deer makes them happy. Period. But knowing that people will shoot whatever makes them happy, I do have an issue with the state watering down the regulations so that everyone can do so all the time with as little effort as possible.

You mean "done your way"

 

[Southern Sportsman]

and as I said, what you really want is new buck requirements. If you care about the age that bucks are killed, then you either change the number of bucks killed or the minimum requirement. Weapon shouldn't be taken into consideration.

Why?

As a broad generalization, I can think of essentially four regulations a state can use to influence harvest goals. Quotas (restricting the number of tags allotted); season length (restricting the number of days available for hunting); bag limits (restricting the number of deer licensed hunters can kill); and means of take (restricting the equipment used to decrease or increase hunter participation and efficacy). Overall, methods & means restrictions have the lowest impact on hunter opportunity because they allow everyone to hunt but still keep harvest numbers at a reasonable level.

If you don't think we're killing enough 2.5 yr old bucks, you are entitled to that opinion. But for those of us who would like to see a good buck age structure, I think weapons restrictions are the best way to accomplish that. Everyone still gets to hunt and everyone gets to kill what makes them happy. They just have to do it with the weapon permitted during that season.

 

[knightrider]

It's all the same issue. People are going to shoot what they are going to shoot. I'm fine with that. I just don't think we need to be making it easier to perform the task when all that will result in is even more does running around, and less deer making it to 3. Of course im concerned with the buck harvest. That's the point of this entire discussion. Improving the age class not slaughtering it with milk on their mouth. Why shoot the basket rack 2 year old and let the 3 does not even close to coming into estrus he's pushing walk by? If it makes you happy, roll his ass with a smile on your face. That is fine. No issue. But I don't think it is absurd that many are concerned with the age class already, and even more concerned about means being put forth to compound the issue even further.

A 1 buck limit is a pipe dream but would be awesome.

Of course you have an issue with it or you wouldnt be whining about killing lesser than your qualification bucks!

 

[CrossVolle]

Of course you have an issue with it or you wouldnt be whining about killing lesser than your qualification bucks!

You've replied to me and others multiple times in this thread with apprehension and offering nothing thoughtful at all.

I get it you don't care about age class. Cool.

I just didn't want you to think I was ignoring you.

 

[RoyalPrudent]

It's all the same issue. People are going to shoot what they are going to shoot. I'm fine with that. I just don't think we need to be making it easier to perform the task when all that will result in is even more does running around, and less deer making it to 3. Of course im concerned with the buck harvest. That's the point of this entire discussion. Improving the age class not slaughtering it with milk on their mouth. Why shoot the basket rack 2 year old and let the 3 does not even close to coming into estrus he's pushing walk by? If it makes you happy, roll his ass with a smile on your face. That is fine. No issue. But I don't think it is absurd that many are concerned with the age class already, and even more concerned about means being put forth to compound the issue even further.

A 1 buck limit is a pipe dream but would be awesome.

You're confused though. The point of this thread is "If straight walled cartridges become legal for MZ, will you use them?"

Method has nothing to do with harvest of mature or semi mature bucks. You've let your feelings slip into the discussion.

 

[knightrider]

You've replied to me and others multiple times in this thread with apprehension and offering nothing thoughtful at all.

I get it you don't care about age class. Cool.

I just didn't want you to think I was ignoring you.

There is nothing wrong with our age class, your not going to miraculously have 5.5 year old 150 inch bucks behind every tree no matter the rules you change or opportunities you take away from people who just want to hunt

 

[CrossVolle]

There is nothing wrong with our age class, your not going to miraculously have 5.5 year old 150 inch bucks behind every tree no matter the rules you change or opportunities you take away from people who just want to hunt

I'll reply again. You do not get it. You implied that I had that unrealistic expectation of 5 year old studs running around everywhere. I just want deer to make it to 3 in tennessee. Tall task I know and it's asking a lot.

 

[CrossVolle]

You're confused though. The point of this thread is "If straight walled cartridges become legal for MZ, will you use them?"

Method has nothing to do with harvest of mature or semi mature bucks. You've let your feelings slip into the discussion.

The point of this thread went astray 4 pages ago.

Of course my feelings are in it. Because I love to do it. If I had no feelings toward it, what would be the point of dumping an inordinate amount of time, effort, and funds into it?

 

[Southern Sportsman]

You mean "done your way"

Not at all. If everyone had to hunt "my way," we wouldn't have a rifle season, we would have a 1-buck limit, and we would have some type of age restriction. That's the way I like to hunt, but that's by personal choice. You will never hear me advocate for imposing my preferences statewide. If someone is happy killing a spike and a basket-rack 6 pt every year, awesome. But that doesn't mean I have to be in favor of liberalizing the regulations to make it easier for everyone to kill their deer with a rifle for the entirety of November.

 

[RoyalPrudent]

Why?

As a broad generalization, I can think of essentially four regulations a state can use to influence harvest goals. Quotas (restricting the number of tags allotted); season length (restricting the number of days available for hunting); bag limits (restricting the number of deer licensed hunters can kill); and means of take (restricting the equipment used to decrease or increase hunter participation and efficacy). Overall, methods & means restrictions have the lowest impact on hunter opportunity because they allow everyone to hunt but still keep harvest numbers at a reasonable level.

If you don't think we're killing enough 2.5 yr old bucks, you are entitled to that opinion. But for those of us who would like to see a good buck age structure, I think weapons restrictions are the best way to accomplish that. Everyone still gets to hunt and everyone gets to kill what makes them happy. They just have to do it with the weapon permitted during that season.

Any literature to support this either? Or can a biologist chime in? i think as far as seasons go, it's either harvest or don't. I really don't think there are normally method distinctions. Methods limits are normally around safety concerns.

The point of this thread went astray 4 pages ago.

Of course my feelings are in it. Because I love to do it. If I had no feelings toward it, what would be the point of dumping an inordinate amount of time, effort, and funds into it?

That's fair. Not what I was doing obviously.

 

[Stalkhunter]

If it were legal I wouldn't be opposed to it. 2 things that affected my vote of "no" is 1. I don't have one and I probly wouldn't buy one for a 2 week season, and 2. I rely on public land and the WMA I hunt is "shotgun/ML" only. Now if I could use my shotgun that'd be a different story. After all, my shotgun shells are straight walled

Total agree with exposed hammer shot gun. I put that in the survey. Lmao, but I like my muzzle load

 

[CrossVolle]

Any literature to support this either? Or can a biologist chime in? i think as far as seasons go, it's either harvest or don't. I really don't think there

That's fair. Not what I was doing obviously.

You bring up a lot of fair points as well. It's good conversation.

 

[Tenntrapper]

For all those that are for allowing centerfire during ML...that also play golf....do you use the women's tees? I'm sure you wouldn't be kicked out of the club or anything...so I assume it's "legal". Just curious.

 

[RoyalPrudent]

For all those that are for allowing centerfire during ML...that also play golf....do you use the women's tees? I'm sure you wouldn't be kicked out of the club or anything...so I assume it's "legal". Just curious.

Ah yes, a lame attack on masculinity.

I knew a guy once that did use the women's tees. Not long after he told us he'd become impotent and his wife was leaving him. I always figured it was cause he smoke and drank so much, but maybe you're right.


Nah, I'm just kidding. I don't play golf. I always thought it and tennis were really country-club, women's, non-contact sports.

I did know a guy that wouldn't use tree stands though. He was scared of falling out. I know another guy who's scared of snakes. He won't hunt till after the first frost. I kind of thought both of these fears were a bit wimpy, but they made up for it by only hunting with atlatl's so we decided not to question their masculinity.

Nah, just kidding again. I don't care how people legally harvest deer. Or what sports they play. Or if they hunt on the ground or in a stand or with an atlatl or if they're scared of snakes. They can do what they want and kill what they want without me criticizing em. (As long as they're legal).

 

[Tenntrapper]

Ah yes, a lame attack on masculinity.

I knew a guy once that did use the women's tees. Not long after he told us he'd become impotent and his wife was leaving him. I always figured it was cause he smoke and drank so much, but maybe you're right.


Nah, I'm just kidding. I don't play golf. I always thought it and tennis were really country-club, women's, non-contact sports.

I did know a guy that wouldn't use tree stands though. He was scared of falling out. I know another guy who's scared of snakes. He won't hunt till after the first frost. I kind of thought both of these fears were a bit wimpy, but they made up for it by only hunting with atlatl's so we decided not to question their masculinity.

Nah, just kidding again. I don't care how people legally harvest deer. Or what sports they play. Or if they hunt on the ground or in a stand or with an atlatl or if they're scared of snakes. They can do what they want and kill what they want without me criticizing em. (As long as they're legal)

Momma always said....throw a shoe into a kennel full of dogs and the one that yelps is the one you hit....nah, just kidding!

 

[knightrider]

I'll reply again. You do not get it. You implied that I had that unrealistic expectation of 5 year old studs running around everywhere. I just want deer to make it to 3 in tennessee. Tall task I know and it's asking a lot.

Lots and lots are its never been better in tn and people still arent happy

 

[knightrider]

Not at all. If everyone had to hunt "my way," we wouldn't have a rifle season, we would have a 1-buck limit, and we would have some type of age restriction. That's the way I like to hunt, but that's by personal choice. You will never hear me advocate for imposing my preferences statewide. If someone is happy killing a spike and a basket-rack 6 pt every year, awesome. But that doesn't mean I have to be in favor liberalizing the regulations to make it easier for everyone to kill their deer with a rifle for the entirety of November.

If you truly don't care about some one elses spike and six point than why do you care what its killed with? Dead id dead no matter the weapon. Single shot straight wall isnt any different than my muzzleloader not sure how its easier, there isnt 30 seconds difference in a reload .

 

[Tenntrapper]

I really don't care how anyone hunts...or what they shoot. I don't even give a chit if what they do is legal. I don't have to pay their fines if they get caught.
I do think I misunderstood the question though... "If" it were legal, would you...?
I kind of went off on "should" it be legal?
Personally...I think it should be any weapon from the start....for ONE buck. Then if you want a second one, it should be something primitive...like bow or flintlock. Kinda how PA does their flintlock season.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

Single shot straight wall isnt any different than my muzzleloader not sure how its easier, there isnt 30 seconds difference in a reload .

Do you really not understand how a centerfire rifle is easier to hunt with than a muzzleloader? Or are you just unwilling to concede anything? And before you ask again, no, I don't have any "literature" or "proof" to show that a centerfire is easier to hunt with than a muzzleloader.

 

[DayDay]

What is a basket-rack?