Food Plots Select cut timber question

[BigAl]

Our lease had the timber select cut over the last year (actually still cutting). Its made the woods hunting difficult due to the timber being cut when it was wet (ruts everywhere, tops and stumps everywhere), and the growth that came up afterwards. The pic below is one of my fav stands and shows what the timber behind my food plot looks like from my stand. I also have a ladder in the middle of all that mess than I've yet to reach. Most of our lease (800 acres) looks like this. Used to be deer moved through it regularly but until Sunday I haven't seen a deer in it. I have some stands that even if I got to them to hunt it, not sure I'd be able to get a deer out.

What's the best plan of action for the near future? Do I let it grow back naturally? Try to cut some lanes or paths?

 

[Popcorn]

I would attack this asap and start cutting / clearing trails for me and the deer. You need access and the unpressured deer will follow the path of least resistance.
What looks like a disaster now will quickly become a wealth of browse, cover, bedding, nesting!
Look at the whole picture, create openings to funnel deer where you want, create wind minded trails for your entrances and strongly consider a sanctuary or two, you have the acres to make the most of thes circumstances and in a few years you will be glad you did!

 

[Ski]

What he ^ said x1000. In my experience that is better than any plot or other habitat feature, and only costs some creative imagination & chainsaw gas.

 

[DoubleRidge]

I agree with Popcorn and Ski...and while it may look rough now the amount of browse, and bedding cover for the deer will be amazing...in addition the fawning and nesting cover will be so much better...also agree that the chainsaw will useful in clearing some areas to create funnels, shooting lanes and access for you....and if you know anyone who heats with or sells wood you may get some help getting rid of some of the tops....January and February would be a great time to work on these type projects but go back in late spring and early summer and trim some more...become familiar with how the landscape is changing and adjust as needed...lastly, if you have a smaller tractor with bush hog they can be great for creating paths and open areas...good luck with your project...enjoy the process.

 

[BSK]

The one caveat to add involves the word "lease." I used to hesitate, and now refuse to work on leases. Too many problems. First, often the owner has strict limitations on what can be done. Second, a property can be sold with only a moment's notice.

Had a potential client really pushing me to do some habitat design work on a large lease right on the outskirts of Nashville. I knew the property and its history - a large chunk of land that had changed hands many times, each buyer/investor looking at its proximity to Nashville and the potential to sell it to a developer. Against my better judgement, I did some design work for the hunters and that work was a couple years into development, and just starting to pay rewards when the property was sold. A new housing development is being built there now. All that time/effort and expense by the hunters and it all went down the drain.

 

[BigAl]

The one caveat to add involves the word "lease." I used to hesitate, and now refuse to work on leases. Too many problems. First, often the owner has strict limitations on what can be done. Second, a property can be sold with only a moment's notice.

Had a potential client really pushing me to do some habitat design work on a large lease right on the outskirts of Nashville. I knew the property and its history - a large chunk of land that had changed hands many times, each buyer/investor looking at its proximity to Nashville and the potential to sell it to a developer. Against my better judgement, I did some design work for the hunters and that work was a couple years into development, and just starting to pay rewards when the property was sold. A new housing development is being built there now. All that time/effort and expense by the hunters and it all went down the drain.

No real issues on habitat work. Landownders live out of town and don't really care. We lease from the farmer and as long as we don't touch the AG fields, he is good. Selling is an issue. They have already sold off 2 pieces of the property, so we just try to do a little each year. Nothing major or costly.

 

[7mmWSM]

Big Al as bad as it looks now you'll love it in the years to come. You'll have more game than ever before. I'd make sure to keep the logging roads clear from now on out. Even if you have to get them in shape. Plant some Bob Oats/rye or whatever on them late like 1st of Oct. Hunt the loading areas. A lot of times you'll see a lot of rubs from the willows that grew in the ruts and its openings for them to come to. I've been through this twice and loved it both times. If you have turkeys then they'll flourish in there. I killed much better deer in the years to follow the logging. It looks like crap no doubt but it has its advantages. Right now while everything's a mess I'd be hunting the logging roads. The paths of least resistant to them. Good luck!

 

[BSK]

Big Al as bad as it looks now you'll love it in the years to come. You'll have more game than ever before. I'd make sure to keep the logging roads clear from now on out. Even if you have to get them in shape. Plant some Bob Oats/rye or whatever on them late like 1st of Oct. Hunt the loading areas. A lot of times you'll see a lot of rubs from the willows that grew in the ruts and its openings for them to come to. I've been through this twice and loved it both times. If you have turkeys then they'll flourish in there. I killed much better deer in the years to follow the logging. It looks like crap no doubt but it has its advantages. Right now while everything's a mess I'd be hunting the logging roads. The paths of least resistant to them. Good luck!

Keep preaching brother!

Below is a graph of my property's deer population. Notice the peaks in population a few years following each timber harvest. The lowest population surge around 2015 was because we didn't cut many acres of timber. The massive surge at the far right of the graph (at 2021) was because we cut 1/5 of the entire property scattered in patches, our biggest timber cut to date. The trick is going to be keeping some of that early successional growth in that stage so we don't have to keep cutting so much timber. For reference, the cut in 2004 was 25 out of 500 acres. The one in 2013 was 15 out of 500 acres, and the one in 2019-20 was 100 acres out of 500.

 

[BigAl]

Great info guys! I just think I have some work to day to keep access to some places. The timber cut earlier in 2023 was done during the wet season. With the ruts, then tops, and high grass growing over it, you can barely walk around. I've got 2 stands I haven't got to yet. The cutting thats going on now are not as bad as we have been in drought. Either way, I guess I'll be spending some time with my saw and tractor to clear some access paths.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

We are fixing to start cutting timber in a few patches. So much so, that we are investing into a portable sawmill. It is being planned around logging roads that will be used for fire breaks. It will be a busy next few months. Trying to line up somewhere that will take the wood and pay some of that money back.

 

[double browtine]

So a big windstorm came through my property back in the spring. I finally got a chance the past few Saturdays to cut through a few of my old logging roads that have lots of trees across them. One of my main access roads will probably be abandoned and I will just use the one farther south along the creek. I had a lot of big native pine trees blown down and they took down cedars and other trees. It started up on a small ridge and came down to the creek bottom. I guess it is the deer's new bedding area! I had already started clearing out an area for a food plot and now I will be able to enlarge it. I went down there yesterday with my boys to get some of wood a cut up for the fire bowl. There were two new rubs along the sides of the path I cleared to drive the Kawasaki mule down.
Like others have stated, I think the thick areas and new growth are going to make for better wildlife habitat for the next few years. I think my only issue will be bumping deer out of there when going to my stand locations. I guess it will be a new learning curve for where to hunt the property.

 

[BigAl]

They didn't cut our pines. Are the areas that border the cutover and the mature pines good places to establish roads/hunting areas?

 

[Ski]

We are fixing to start cutting timber in a few patches. So much so, that we are investing into a portable sawmill. It is being planned around logging roads that will be used for fire breaks. It will be a busy next few months. Trying to line up somewhere that will take the wood and pay some of that money back.

Cut 1x6's. You can never have too many around the farm. I cut more of those and 4x4's & 6x6's than anything else combined. Roof lathing, siding, shed/barn floors, fencing, etc. all use 1x6's fresh off the mill. Having a sawmill is convenient.

 

[Smo]

They didn't cut our pines. Are the areas that border the cutover and the mature pines good places to establish roads/hunting areas?

The next high wind you will probably lose those too…
If the ground is saturated, they will blow over easily. Mine did.

Your property will change again after the first 3 years of new growth, think it's thick now just wait!
My place was select cut in 2011, this is what it looks like now.

It's actually starting too "open up" in some areas, I guess the understory is starting too shade out.


Great info above about maintaining the logging roads , it's easier than cutting new ones in most cases..
Loading areas are another great tip, here's a couple of mine after a few years..

After the first 3 years I had too relocate some stands due too the thickets getting taller.
Still at different times of the year some lack great visibility..
Here's a couple different views from the ladder stand just too the left of the cedar in the pic above..

The deer will follow the path of least resistance as mentioned above if un pressured…

25 yards East of the mud hole in the pics above.

That's another thing, my place didn't have any water during the dryer months of the year.
The mud hole above is about two tractor buckets wide & 25-30' long..

It holds water year around and draws lots of attention..
I hope this helps some..

 

[BigAl]

The next high wind you will probably lose those too…
If the ground is saturated, they will blow over easily. Mine did.

Your property will change again after the first 3 years of new growth, think it's thick now just wait!
My place was select cut in 2011, this is what it looks like now.

It's actually starting too "open up" in some areas, I guess the understory is starting too shade out.

Great info above about maintaining the logging roads , it's easier than cutting new ones in most cases..
Loading areas are another great tip, here's a couple of mine after a few years..

After the first 3 years I had too relocate some stands due too the thickets getting taller.
Still at different times of the year some lack great visibility..
Here's a couple different views from the ladder stand just too the left of the cedar in the pic above..

The deer will follow the path of least resistance as mentioned above if un pressured…

25 yards East of the mud hole in the pics above.

That's another thing, my place didn't have any water during the dryer months of the year.
The mud hole above is about two tractor buckets wide & 25-30' long..

It holds water year around and draws lots of attention..
I hope this helps some..

When I said our pines weren't cut, I meant we have some large stands of pine. They weren't after those. The problem with the logging roads is they are rutted up really bad. And the staging areas are a mess. Yours is starting to look good again. I guess I need to do what I can with the time and eqpt I have and be more patient.

 

[BSK]

Great info guys! I just think I have some work to day to keep access to some places. The timber cut earlier in 2023 was done during the wet season. With the ruts, then tops, and high grass growing over it, you can barely walk around. I've got 2 stands I haven't got to yet. The cutting thats going on now are not as bad as we have been in drought. Either way, I guess I'll be spending some time with my saw and tractor to clear some access paths.

I specifically planned on a winter cut for my last cut. We were in desperate need of thick regrowth for cover, and a winter cut produces a "jungle" of regrowth a full year before a summer cut. However, wow did the loggers ever tear our place up. We cut in January-February of 2021 and our roads are still a mess. Going to take a lot of work to fix them, but having trouble finding heavy equipment guys that 1) know how to work roads on steep terrain, and 2) aren't completely booked up leveling home sites.

 

[Huntaholic]

When I said our pines weren't cut, I meant we have some large stands of pine. They weren't after those. The problem with the logging roads is they are rutted up really bad. And the staging areas are a mess. Yours is starting to look good again. I guess I need to do what I can with the time and eqpt I have and be more patient.

Your logger sucked arse then. I hate to say that, but if they cant take the time to fix the roads back, level the landing yards, etc...... then they NEED SHOOTING.
When I leave a job you can drive your wife's Subaru on my skid trails and sow seeds on my logyards.

 

[7mmWSM]

Your logger sucked arse then. I hate to say that, but if they cant take the time to fix the roads back, level the landing yards, etc...... then they NEED SHOOTING.
When I leave a job you can drive your wife's Subaru on my skid trails and sow seeds on my logyards.

You're one of a kind then. I've never seen a logger in our area fix anything.

 

[Huntaholic]

You're one of a kind then. I've never seen a logger in our area fix anything.

The way I see things is I treat your property just like I would if it was my own. If I mess it up, then I FIX IT. Its served me well through the years, Ive never had to look for work, work finds me.

 

[7mmWSM]

The way I see things is I treat your property just like I would if it was my own. If I mess it up, then I FIX IT. Its served me well through the years, Ive never had to look for work, work finds me.

I like your work ethic. I bet it has helped you through out the years in logging no doubt.

 

[Huntaholic]

I like your work ethic. I bet it has helped you through out the years in logging no doubt.

Im a 3rd generation logger and both of my sons work with me so we are 4 generations deep. Im not obligated to any sawmill or lumber company, I market timber myself and as such Im not on any quota or timeline. Typically I can get you more money for your timber than an individual buyer or sawmill can because I play the markets and take it to whoever is paying the most. More money for you equals more money for me and I dont have to rape, pillage and plunder your property to get it, therefore I can leave your property and young timber in better shape than most others. I DO NOT DO CLEARCUTS AND I DONT DEAL IN PINE or any of that crap! If I cut your timber you or your kids will cut it again in 25 years.

 

[BSK]

Sure wish you worked in my area Huntaholic.

 

[BSK]

These are my roads during the logging. Luckily, the day I took this picture the ground was frozen hard as concrete. Above freezing and the roads were undriveable, even for an ATV. What did the loggers do to "fix" this? Leveled the bottom of the "trench." That's it. Left the big walls of dirt on both sides, which guarantees water runs right down the road and can't leave. Had one section of road - on a ridge-top - that was trenched so deep and held so much water that I could literally paddle a canoe down the road for over 100 yards.

 

[BSK]

Here's where the loggers illegally drove the skidders up and down a creek-bed:

 

[Huntaholic]

These are my roads during the logging. Luckily, the day I took this picture the ground was frozen hard as concrete. Above freezing and the roads were undriveable, even for an ATV. What did the loggers do to "fix" this? Leveled the bottom of the "trench." That's it. Left the big walls of dirt on both sides, which guarantees water runs right down the road and can't leave. Had one section of road - on a ridge-top - that was trenched so deep and held so much water that I could literally paddle a canoe down the road for over 100 yards.

Thats inexcusable! Theres absolutely no reason to leave roads like that especially on a ridge top! Level it back in, put some "turn outs" in it, tell the landowner to stay off of it while its wet and until it settles back in, and its done. I know loggers that dont even own a dozer, they hire their roads built and only run skidders, I dont see how they stay in business! I own 2 dozers and only one skidder so Ive always got a dozer on site to take care of my roads.

 

[BSK]

Thats inexcusable! Theres absolutely no reason to leave roads like that especially on a ridge top! Level it back in, put some "turn outs" in it, tell the landowner to stay off of it while its wet and until it settles back in, and its done. I know loggers that dont even own a dozer, they hire their roads built and only run skidders, I dont see how they stay in business! I own 2 dozers and only one skidder so Ive always got a dozer on site to take care of my roads.

The loggers had a dedicated dozer and operator, but all he knew how to do was open skidder roads. Basically, just roads straight up and down the hills. I asked him to fix our primary roads with broad-based dips and water turn-outs. He didn't know what I was talking about. Instead - in our main roads driven daily - he piled up water-bars, some 3 feet tall! makes for an interesting ride, especially on a tractor with heavy implements attached.

 

[Huntaholic]

The loggers had a dedicated dozer and operator, but all he knew how to do was open skidder roads. Basically, just roads straight up and down the hills. I asked him to fix our primary roads with broad-based dips and water turn-outs. He didn't know what I was talking about. Instead - in our main roads driven daily - he piled up water-bars, some 3 feet tall! makes for an interesting ride, especially on a tractor with heavy implements attached.

Thats sad but he only knows what he has been taught or is getting paid to do. Pretty much anybody can move a dozer around, push dirt, etc...... thats not an OPERATOR. An operator has a sense of grade, slope, etc..... hardwired into the seat of his pants.

 

[348Winchester]

Thats sad but he only knows what he has been taught or is getting paid to do. Pretty much anybody can move a dozer around, push dirt, etc...... thats not an OPERATOR. An operator has a sense of grade, slope, etc..... hardwired into the seat of his pants.

What county are you in? Are you near Morgan County?

 

[Huntaholic]

What county are you in? Are you near Morgan County?

Jackson co is where I live but I typically work in Jackson, Putnam, Smith, Overton, Clay, with an occasional venture into White, Macon, Dekalb, etc.... Morgan is a tad far for me to travel every day and my guys would rally a mutiny if I told them we had to stay a few nights a week to work lol.

 

[BigAl]

Your logger sucked arse then. I hate to say that, but if they cant take the time to fix the roads back, level the landing yards, etc...... then they NEED SHOOTING.
When I leave a job you can drive your wife's Subaru on my skid trails and sow seeds on my logyards.

Not my property. I'm on a lease and the absentee landowner has no care about the place.