Potential problems with field-judging age

Dumbluck

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We killed a couple of mature bucks last year that actually looked younger body wise than the year before. Luckily I run a lot of cameras and when I see a deer in person they typically all look different to me so identifying them the next season for me is fairly easy. One of those bucks was a for sure 4.5+ yet he looked like a 3.5 or younger the first time I got a photo of him last year. At first I didn't think it was the same deer until I got a daytime photo of him and noticed his white marks on his legs matched the year before and then I could see it in his rack as well. That deer I would bet you weighed a good 40 to 50 lbs less than he did the year before at 3.5. His back was actually v shaped where his spine was. My dad killed that deer and questioned if he killed a great up and comer, I had to reassure him he was a 4.5+ and once I showed him the data he felt much better. I wondered if that buck would have even survived late winter, he was killed right as the rut just started and he was already emaciated.

As for the deer this year, the herd we have looks healthy and they seem to be at the body configurations I would expect. The configurations are there I believe but their overall weight is still down. I planted a bunch of forage oats to try and help them put that weight back up over this winter and with the acorn crop we have, I think we will see a high survival rate of our older bucks which is very slim. Our older age classes have been getting hammered with mortality the last 6-7 years on this farm and I believe that is directly tied to our fairly new know everything dumbass neighbor that is feeding thousands of pounds of corn.
 

Popcorn

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Ok, This all makes sense to me now. Of course I do not keep the detailed records that some of you do, thats not what Im paid to do... BUT Stewart county property, 1160 acres surrounded by another 6 to 8000 of similar poor pine stands, clearcuts highly eroded weak / non-existing soils, same drought conditions with no mast last year and failed plots both years. The hunters generally high grade here and the mature bucks that summer here disperse early and only randomly pass thru during the rut. This season has been nothing but mediocre bucks or worse and exactly as described with an overabundance of 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year olds. All of the bucks 2 1/2 or older came into the fall lookin relatively healthy but by no means fat and are now looking like its Jan 15 instead of Dec 01. Everything above fits like a glove. The only difference I see is that these deer have no local ag and what plots didnt fail were so absent of nutrition they made little difference

Its almost as if somebody unloaded a truck load of basket racks
 
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BSK

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We killed a couple of mature bucks last year that actually looked younger body wise than the year before. Luckily I run a lot of cameras and when I see a deer in person they typically all look different to me so identifying them the next season for me is fairly easy. One of those bucks was a for sure 4.5+ yet he looked like a 3.5 or younger the first time I got a photo of him last year. At first I didn't think it was the same deer until I got a daytime photo of him and noticed his white marks on his legs matched the year before and then I could see it in his rack as well. That deer I would bet you weighed a good 40 to 50 lbs less than he did the year before at 3.5. His back was actually v shaped where his spine was. My dad killed that deer and questioned if he killed a great up and comer, I had to reassure him he was a 4.5+ and once I showed him the data he felt much better. I wondered if that buck would have even survived late winter, he was killed right as the rut just started and he was already emaciated.
Glad to see you post this Dumbluck. I have a client near my personal hunting place for whom I've been running censuses for years. This year, I found I buck with a unique rack that I thought I recognized. This year, I have him as a clear 3 1/2 by summer aging criteria. I went back last year, and there he is. I had him as a 3 1/2 then too. I went back another year, and I have him as a 2 1/2. Could it be a different deer this year? Anything is possible, but I doubt it. I think it is same buck and this year he is actually 4 1/2.

On my own place - and we were hit extremely hard by the drought last year, to the point bucks were dropping their antlers in late December - we have an inordinate number of 3 1/2s and unusually low number of mature bucks, just like many of my associates and clients in the area.
 

BSK

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Ok, This all makes sense to me now. Of course I do not keep the detailed records that some of you do, thats not what Im paid to do... BUT Stewart county property, 1160 acres surrounded by another 6 to 8000 of similar poor pine stands, clearcuts highly eroded weak / non-existing soils, same drought conditions with no mast last year and failed plots both years. The hunters generally high grade here and the mature bucks that summer here disperse early and only randomly pass thru during the rut. This season has been nothing but mediocre bucks or worse and exactly as described with an overabundance of 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year olds. All of the bucks 2 1/2 or older came into the fall lookin relatively healthy but by no means fat and are now looking like its Jan 15 instead of Dec 01. Everything above fits like a glove. The only difference I see is that these deer have no local ag and what plots didnt fail were so absent of nutrition they made little difference

Its almost as if somebody unloaded a truck load of basket racks
I have a weird situation I cannot explain. And maybe it's just a single year anomaly. We often see a much higher percentage of our total buck population being yearlings than most other properties. I think it is because we pick up so many "dispersing" yearlings in fall because my place is perfect positioned between two major river bottomlands. A mile walk across my place takes a buck from one river system to the other. But this year the number of yearlings has absolutely exploded. And I have no logical reason why.

In an average year, we will pick up 38 unique bucks using the property, with 20 of those being yearlings. This year, so far, we've picked up 65 unique bucks and 46 are yearlings. Where the heck did all these yearlings come from? More than double the normal number? That's truly odd.
 

DeerCamp

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This topic won't apply to everyone in TN, just those who hunt/manage in the areas hit hardest by the 2022 drought.

First, let me say I'm not conclusively sure this problem is an absolute fact. It is based on an interesting trend I've observed having looked at a lot of photo census data and compared notes with many landowners/managers who collect trail-camera data. And this trend is - when looking at a census of the bucks using a given property - an unusually high number of 3 1/2 year-old bucks and an unusually low number of mature bucks (4 1/2+) this year.

Many factors influence a local area's "age pyramid" - the percent of the total buck population in each age-class. But it goes without saying that there will almost always be fewer bucks in each older age-class, because of all forms of mortality. In essence, you should see less 2 1/2 year-old bucks than yearlings because some yearlings are going to die each year, so fewer bucks that are 2 1/2 will exist the following year. This continues with each age-class. A local area's age pyramid - especially looked at over a number of years - should show the largest cohort is yearlings, the second largest should be 2 1/2s, the third largest should be 3 1/2s, etc. on up through all the age-classes that exist in the area. Now how big of a difference there is from one age-class to the next oldest will depend on many factors, but I find that the biggest factor is hunter harvest pressure. In fact, hunter harvest pressure is usually so obvious in the data I don't need to be told where the age-based limit for a club or big landowner is. I can see it in the data. If a club/landowner is using a rule (and that rule has been in place for a number of years) that bucks must be 3 1/2 before they are killable by hunters, I will see only a small drop in the number of 2 1/2s from the number of yearlings. The only loss of yearlings to 2 1/2s is through natural mortality - yearling bucks dying of disease, injuries, car collisions, etc. The same will be true of the decline in bucks from 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 - only a fairly small percentage decline. But because bucks are "legal" for harvest at 3 1/2, I will see a big drop-off in bucks from 3 1/2 to 4 1/2, and every older age-class as well, as hunters pick off a significant portion of each of these "legal for harvest" age-classes each year.

The point of all this is that, looked at over a number of years, I don't see big swings in the buck age pyramid on individual properties from year to year. Once a local area's age pyramid has developed - based on local harvest pressure - it stays very close to the same from year to year, with only slight differences. Even when hunters/managers change their harvest rules in attempt to produce an older buck age structure, the changes occur slowly from year to year. When properties make major changes in harvest guidelines to produce more older or mature bucks, the changes from year to year are incremental - just a couple of percentage points better from one year to the next (but these add up over time). Now there will certainly be vast differences in the buck age pyramid from property to property because of different amounts of harvest pressure and different self-imposed buck restrictions, but when looking at years of data from a single property, the numbers don't change quickly from year to year.

OK, after that exhaustive explanation, back to the original problem. And let me state again, I'm only seeing this problem in areas hit hardest by the 2022 drought - those areas where the drought was so severe that the acorn crop was a total failure, agricultural crops failed, food plots failed, and even the native habitat dried up (and I saw locations where even the pokeweed and ragweed dried up and died). The problem is a very odd number of bucks field-judged as being 3 1/2 this year. And when I say an "odd number," I'm saying some of these properties have come up with almost as many - and in some cases MORE - 3 1/2 year-old bucks than 2 1/2 year-old bucks. The accuracy of this scenario is highly unlikely. Not impossible, but highly unlikely.

My concern is, did the severe drought last year, and post-rut bucks going into a difficult winter (no acorns, no food plots, no agriculture) prevent surviving 3 1/2 and older bucks from adding the body growth the following spring/summer to "look like" they are a year older? The only explanation I can come up with for how numerous properties suddenly have more 3 1/2s than they had 2 1/2s the previous year is that some of those 3 1/2s are not 3 1/2. They are 4 1/2s (or even older) that were severely underfed the previous winter. This is pure conjecture on my part, but the numbers don't lie. If this occurred on just one property, I could come up with all sorts of potential explanations for it. But on multiple properties, all in the same region that all share the commonality of the drought? Yet in areas not as heavily affected by the drought I am NOT seeing this unusual pattern?

Again, this is pure speculation on my part trying to explain a regional anomaly. But it is an educated guess based on a lot of data over many years. But I could be wrong too and it's just an odd, highly coincidental anomaly.
Something wierd going on for sure. Oklahoma was similar. Their drought was brutal.
 

BSK

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I was concerned the buck I killed this year - field-judge aged at 3 1/2 - might actually be 4 1/2. I wondered about this because of his mass. His basal circumferences (H1 measurements) were 5". That's a lot of mass for a 3 1/2 year-old. But going back and looking at last year's bucks, there he is as our biggest 2 1/2 year-old. His rack last year to this is a perfect match. Turns out, he's just way up on the right-hand leg of the bell-curve for 3 1/2 year-olds.

First video is 2022. Second video, 2023. Two camera locations only about 20 feet apart.
 

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backyardtndeer

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I was concerned the buck I killed this year - field-judge aged at 3 1/2 - might actually be 4 1/2. I wondered about this because of his mass. His basal circumferences (H1 measurements) were 5". That's a lot of mass for a 3 1/2 year-old. But going back and looking at last year's bucks, there he is as our biggest 2 1/2 year-old. His rack last year to this is a perfect match. Turns out, he's just way up on the right-hand leg of the bell-curve for 3 1/2 year-olds.
Did last year's drought impact his this years antler development or body size?
 

Bgoodman30

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I don't know I think it was the bad EHD around 4 years ago. Last year mast crops non existent but plots and green fields were better. I am seeing about normal body size but I am sure could be mis judging some. Antler size down some. Always something and never an exact science but that's what makes it fun. 😉
 

Ski

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I was concerned the buck I killed this year - field-judge aged at 3 1/2 - might actually be 4 1/2. I wondered about this because of his mass. His basal circumferences (H1 measurements) were 5". That's a lot of mass for a 3 1/2 year-old. But going back and looking at last year's bucks, there he is as our biggest 2 1/2 year-old. His rack last year to this is a perfect match. Turns out, he's just way up on the right-hand leg of the bell-curve for 3 1/2 year-olds.

First video is 2022. Second video, 2023. Two camera locations only about 20 feet apart.

5" bases are huge for a 3.5yr old buck anywhere whitetails live.
 

Dumbluck

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BSK that buck has very distinct white markings on his hind quarters. I wonder how far back you can trace him by using those with your trail camera data.
 

BSK

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He was an exceptional 2.5 year old. How many inches do you think he added from 2022, maybe 25-30? His body size didn't appear to have been a really big gain from those clips.
Agree on body gain. He was a classic 2 1/2 for my area last year, and body-wise a slightly below average 3 1/2 this year.

As for antlers, I thought he was a 115-120 10-point last year, and I had him judged as a 125-130 10-point this year. Turns out he scored 131 and change. So he probably gained around 15 inches from 2 /2 to 3 1/2, which is below average for the area (average increase is about 22 inches). I had him as out best 2 1/2 last year and our second best 3 1/2 this year.
 

LenS

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BSK, this post has me thinking about a few of our deer and whether I've been mis-identifying them. This video is from yesterday....is this a 3.5 or 4.5? I do know he would've looked different a month ago.

Also, we rarely see rut activity after Thanksgiving. I'm blowing up with trail cam picks of deer, including 3 bucks chasing a doe earlier this week. Crazy year!
 

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backyardtndeer

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BSK, this post has me thinking about a few of our deer and whether I've been mis-identifying them. This video is from yesterday....is this a 3.5 or 4.5? I do know he would've looked different a month ago.

Also, we rarely see rut activity after Thanksgiving. I'm blowing up with trail cam picks of deer, including 3 bucks chasing a doe earlier this week. Crazy year!
I'm not BSK, but I think that deer is a 4.5.
 

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