Human scent

[flankston]

Just curious as to how long you guys think human scent lasts on the ground. I know it depends on several factors such as temperature, rain, ect. However, i was just curious as to a rule of thumb, is it gone in say a week? a month? a couple of days? I've seen several different answers from google and was curious as to the experienced hunters opinions?

 

[DeerCamp]

Just curious as to how long you guys think human scent lasts on the ground. I know it depends on several factors such as temperature, rain, ect. However, i was just curious as to a rule of thumb, is it gone in say a week? a month? a couple of days? I've seen several different answers from google and was curious as to the experienced hunters opinions?

Both of the primary places I hunt, I have to walk through an area where I'm likely to see deer to get to the blinds.

Typically they never notice. Sometimes they sniff, but I've never seen it cause one to turn around.

For that reason, we actually walk right through the middle of the field rather than the edges. If a deer is going to smell my tracks, by that point he's already in the middle of the field.

 

[BSK]

Years ago, had moved a greenbrier vine out of the way with my bare hand to get to my stand. 10 days later, I watched a deer sniff that vine and freak out. It lasts longer than you think. Now the question is, how much do deer care? Where human scent is normal year-round, not much. Where human scent only occurs during deer season, quite a bit!

 

[Ski]

It stays a long time. In my experience, a deer doesn't just notice that you were there. They know when you were there, and crazy as it seems I think they might even know if you were hunting. I can bust deer out somewhat regularly while working on the property, mushroom hunting, etc., and they come right back. When I bust them out while hunting, they're gone. I don't even have to spook them. When they find out I was in their area hunting them, they don't come back. I've seen it play out same way with coyotes. When a coyote is showing no apparent interest in deer but are near deer, they get nervous but don't really spook off the same way as when the coyote is actively hunting deer. It's as if the deer understand intent. Weird & crazy I know, and it's possible I'm misinterpreting something, but I really believe there's something going on. I hear people call it a sixth sense but I think it's likely just such an incredible sense of smell that we don't fully comprehend the extent of what it senses.

 

[BSK]

It stays a long time.
When they find out I was in their area hunting them, they don't come back.
I hear people call it a sixth sense but I think it's likely just such an incredible sense of smell that we don't fully comprehend the extent of what it senses.

All great comments. I've posted this graph before, but it bears repeating (see below). This a graph of older buck observation rates based on how many times a particular stand has been hunted that year. The more times a stand has been hunted, the lower the chances of seeing an older buck. This data comes from about 35 years of hunter observations on my own property. Now our hunting is somewhat unique in that low visibility means buck (and older buck) encounters are at near point-blank range, hence human scent around the stand plays a huge role. If hunters are hunting from stands where shots are a 100+ yards, I don't think how many times that stand has been hunted plays any role at all. The deer are too far away to be affected by near-stand scent. But for deer coming in close, the accumulation of human scent around the stand over time is a major player. Now older buck sightings over time never drop to zero. They are just greatly reduced from the first time a stand is hunted in a given year.

 

[flankston]

It stays a long time. In my experience, a deer doesn't just notice that you were there. They know when you were there, and crazy as it seems I think they might even know if you were hunting. I can bust deer out somewhat regularly while working on the property, mushroom hunting, etc., and they come right back. When I bust them out while hunting, they're gone. I don't even have to spook them. When they find out I was in their area hunting them, they don't come back. I've seen it play out same way with coyotes. When a coyote is showing no apparent interest in deer but are near deer, they get nervous but don't really spook off the same way as when the coyote is actively hunting deer. It's as if the deer understand intent. Weird & crazy I know, and it's possible I'm misinterpreting something, but I really believe there's something going on. I hear people call it a sixth sense but I think it's likely just such an incredible sense of smell that we don't fully comprehend the extent of what it senses.

That is interesting to think about. I see a lot of the times, especially when they see me walk in at different time, still dark for instance. The perhaps take note of where we are heading. I've noticed if i hunt a certain spot hard then they learn where my stand is. Perhaps the next time that they come through they check the stand for movement or something that looks different, perhaps a shape that isn't there normally. I've often wondered if there is a larger reason of why we can't communicate with animals, like to gain an understanding of the senses that you speak of. Maybe it is nature's way of keeping the balance on a level playing field? I think the smell we make when entering coupled with the sight of seeing us walk in might cue them that we are in the field hunting. My opinion of a deer seeing us and jumping off the bed has changed over the years to I actually have to get closer to them to get them off the bed. Especially the larger, more mature deer. It wouldn't surprise me if a mature buck is lying on a ridge somewhere watches me enter and stays bedded until I leave. I often notice this when I put corn out in the offseason. When I rip the bag open and dump onto the ground the deer know what it equals and often mature bucks will be the first hitting the corn.

 

[Ski]

Maybe it is nature's way of keeping the balance on a level playing field?

I'd say so. They have more acute perception of movement, at least as good hearing or better, and unimaginably better sense of smell. We have thumbs so we win.

I tend to think we hunters underestimate certain aspects of deer, while over crediting other aspects. Case in point, I don't think they are nearly as smart as we are nor do I believe their brains operate the same way. As us predators & they prey, I think we are wired completely different. We tend to relate with them as if they have the same cognitive abilities as us but they don't. We solve problems through calculating & consideration. Their brains automatically do it upon a single whiff, as if their nose is their brain. I'd have to think they are more reactive where we are proactive. When they avoid us it's because they're reacting to a negative experience such as catching our ground scent. I don't think they actually run the gears in their brain to figure out if they should, where they should, how they should. It just happens automatically, at least mostly. That said I think they do have a level of cognition, an ability to think through a problem, but not at the same level or in the same way we do. That's just my thoughts though. I'm willing to be wrong.

 

[skipperbrown]

Glen Johnson who wrote Tracking Dog Theory and Methods is considered by many the father of dog tracking theory. His tests showed that trained tracking dogs could discern a particular person's scent for several hours, but could follow a track that was much older. He used tracks and cross tracks to support his work. As the track ages, the scent of the track layer diminished, but the track itself, the disturbed grass and earth from each footprint, was perceptible to the dog long afterwards. His studies also showed that on an old track that the dog came upon could be followed in either direction but the dog could not determine the direction of travel.

If we extrapolate his findings to deer, who probably smell as well as dogs, deer can very probably smell our track and know it is human if it is only minutes or a few hours old. How a deer responds is probably based on the age and experience of the particular deer. I've seen yearlings air scent me and act curious, but not alarmed. I've seen an old doe air scent me, blow and immediately run off. I've also seen deer taken on a plot the day after a deer was shot, ran off and 4 guys walked all over the plot and nearby woods looking for the carcass. I think the best we can do is try to minimize our time in the woods and try to stay out of deer paths.

 

[DRSJ35]

Has there been any study on doe/buck vs tracking dogs does one smell better than the other. Or are they close to one another.

 

[Safari Hunt]

Human scent will linger for a while. I have followed some people who left the aisle I just went down.
As for deer, it's interesting how they will hang out in the suburbs with all kinds of human scent around.

 

[BSK]

Has there been any study on doe/buck vs tracking dogs does one smell better than the other. Or are they close to one another.

The sense of smell of a species - rightly or wrongly - is judged by 1) the density of scent receptors per square inch in their nasal passages; and 2) the total square inches of scent receptor tissue in the nasal passages. By that metric, deer can smell better than any tracking dog. In fact, if they could be trained (and it appears they can't) they would be excellent tracking animals.

Another way of judging an animal's sense of smell is to expose them to very tiny amounts of a scent and then measuring the electrical activity in the sense of smell section of the animal's brain. For a smell like gasoline, humans must be exposed to 10,000 molecules of gasoline per billion molecules of air to produce an electrical response in our brain. A deer's brain will react to 1 molecule of gasoline per 1 billion molecules of air.

 

[BSK]

Glen Johnson who wrote Tracking Dog Theory and Methods is considered by many the father of dog tracking theory. His tests showed that trained tracking dogs could discern a particular person's scent for several hours, but could follow a track that was much older. He used tracks and cross tracks to support his work. As the track ages, the scent of the track layer diminished, but the track itself, the disturbed grass and earth from each footprint, was perceptible to the dog long afterwards. His studies also showed that on an old track that the dog came upon could be followed in either direction but the dog could not determine the direction of travel.

The one study I've seen where a tame doe was used, she could track an individual human through an area where many people had walked. In essence, they can identify individual people, not just "human" versus some other animal.

 

[BSK]

I'd say so. They have more acute perception of movement, at least as good hearing or better, and unimaginably better sense of smell. We have thumbs so we win.

I tend to think we hunters underestimate certain aspects of deer, while over crediting other aspects. Case in point, I don't think they are nearly as smart as we are nor do I believe their brains operate the same way. As us predators & they prey, I think we are wired completely different. We tend to relate with them as if they have the same cognitive abilities as us but they don't. We solve problems through calculating & consideration. Their brains automatically do it upon a single whiff, as if their nose is their brain. I'd have to think they are more reactive where we are proactive. When they avoid us it's because they're reacting to a negative experience such as catching our ground scent. I don't think they actually run the gears in their brain to figure out if they should, where they should, how they should. It just happens automatically, at least mostly. That said I think they do have a level of cognition, an ability to think through a problem, but not at the same level or in the same way we do. That's just my thoughts though. I'm willing to be wrong.

You said a mouthful there Ski. We definitely over-estimate the cognitive ability of deer. Although it's impossible to know for sure, we assume that to have ANY ability to reason, the animal must have an imagination. In essence, the animal must be able to go through the "what ifs" of cause and effect to reason. As far as we can tell, no animal besides ourselves has an imagination, hence no animal but ourselves can reason ("If I do this, this might happen. If I do that, that might happen").

Now as for their physical senses, I think we seriously underestimate some of their physical senses, especially their sense of smell. We underestimate it because we humans cannot conceptualize having such a finely tuned sense. On the flip side, we overestimate their hearing. Brain function studies suggest a deer's sense of hearing is only slightly better than ours. They just react to what they do hear more quickly than we do.

Another mental ability we underestimate is a deer's sense of spatial awareness. And by that, I mean they will react very differently to the same stimuli based on where they are. Exposure to a particular human's scent in an area where they encounter it all the time, but it has never caused them harm there, will elicit no response. Contact with that same person's scent in an area where human scent only occurs during hunting season, and that scent may cause a very sudden flight response.

 

[Ski]

You said a mouthful there Ski. We definitely over-estimate the cognitive ability of deer. Although it's impossible to know for sure, we assume that to have ANY ability to reason, the animal must have an imagination. In essence, the animal must be able to go through the "what ifs" of cause and effect to reason. As far as we can tell, no animal besides ourselves has an imagination, hence no animal but ourselves can reason ("If I do this, this might happen. If I do that, that might happen").

Now as for their physical senses, I think we seriously underestimate some of their physical senses, especially their sense of smell. We underestimate it because we humans cannot conceptualize having such a finely tuned sense. On the flip side, we overestimate their hearing. Brain function studies suggest a deer's sense of hearing is only slightly better than ours. They just react to what they do hear more quickly than we do.

Another mental ability we underestimate is a deer's sense of spatial awareness. And by that, I mean they will react very differently to the same stimuli based on where they are. Exposure to a particular human's scent in an area where they encounter it all the time, but it has never caused them harm there, will elicit no response. Contact with that same person's scent in an area where human scent only occurs during hunting season, and that scent may cause a very sudden flight response.

That's a much more articulate way to say it. It was in my head but the words not so much hahaha! It's been a scramble brain day for me today.

 

[flankston]

You said a mouthful there Ski. We definitely over-estimate the cognitive ability of deer. Although it's impossible to know for sure, we assume that to have ANY ability to reason, the animal must have an imagination. In essence, the animal must be able to go through the "what ifs" of cause and effect to reason. As far as we can tell, no animal besides ourselves has an imagination, hence no animal but ourselves can reason ("If I do this, this might happen. If I do that, that might happen").

Now as for their physical senses, I think we seriously underestimate some of their physical senses, especially their sense of smell. We underestimate it because we humans cannot conceptualize having such a finely tuned sense. On the flip side, we overestimate their hearing. Brain function studies suggest a deer's sense of hearing is only slightly better than ours. They just react to what they do hear more quickly than we do.

Another mental ability we underestimate is a deer's sense of spatial awareness. And by that, I mean they will react very differently to the same stimuli based on where they are. Exposure to a particular human's scent in an area where they encounter it all the time, but it has never caused them harm there, will elicit no response. Contact with that same person's scent in an area where human scent only occurs during hunting season, and that scent may cause a very sudden flight response.

Yes I think what separates us from other animals is the ability to reason. Others just act off instinct developed through evolution. I've noticed when I ride a 4 wheeler through a field to retrieve game or scout, it doesn't seem to bother the deer as bad. I've often wondered if I would be better off riding my atv closer to my stand locations. It could be because they don't equate it to hunting or because they know I'm not trying to be sneaky when on it. Also a more common scent in that area doing card pulls and other things. I take it to retrieve game but otherwise don't ride it in during season because the worry of the deer hearing me. Maybe my logic is backwards

 

[BSK]

It's been a scramble brain day for me today.

At my age, that's most days.

 

[BSK]

Yes I think what separates us from other animals is the ability to reason. Others just act off instinct developed through evolution. I've noticed when I ride a 4 wheeler through a field to retrieve game or scout, it doesn't seem to bother the deer as bad. I've often wondered if I would be better off riding my atv closer to my stand locations. It could be because they don't equate it to hunting or because they know I'm not trying to be sneaky when on it. Also a more common scent in that area doing card pulls and other things. I take it to retrieve game but otherwise don't ride it in during season because the worry of the deer hearing me. Maybe my logic is backwards

All I can tell you is I now ride an ATV right to my cameras, and I'm seeing much less negative reaction over time than when I walked to my cameras. In fact, now, if I can't drive an ATV right to a spot, I don't put a camera there, no matter how promising.

 

[muddyboots]

I can tell you this. I walk right by a cam I keep out year round when I hunt a certain stand. I've gotten pics as soon as 30 minutes of calm deer. Now the other day I was hunting said stand and just happen to catch something moving 75 yards away in thick cover. It was horns coming. The horns hit directly edge of my scent and calmly did a u turn and got walked away. That ez and he was gone. Lol

 

[Snake]

I was hunting Lewus Co . one year and there was this main game trail that came up out of a hollow going west to east plus another running perpendicular with the hollow the other trail crossed. In order to see both trails I had positioned my stand accordingly but to get to it I had to cross the west to east trail . I had a salt lick right in that trail where the deer may stop for a shot during bow season but this was gun now but to the point I knew where the lick was . I was going to cross right above the salt lick the next opening morning as I had already put my stand in their that evening. When I got to the trail that morning I actually took a couple of leaps to jump over that trail . It was also pretty dry so I was assured in my mind scent would no problem with the NW wind . Things looking good about 9:00 or so that morning three does came from the NE and milled around for probably 15 minutes or so . No alert didn't know I was in the world I was about ready to get down as it had warmed up and it was approaching noon . I always scan the area before I start down and I caught movement coming across the hollow following the trail coming from the west , horns yes sir nice six point 2.5 year-old and a shooter to me . Very patient watching this buck waiting for a perfect broadside shot following that trail @ about 50 yds . All of a sudden this buck jumps straight up in the air and takes off .... right where I jumped across and this trail , had to be at least 4 hours since I had crossed . I did kill the buck though as he just bounded off about 150 yds blowing his head off but I squeezed off a neck shot with the only opening I had and dropped him. But it just amazed me that he had smelled my scent on a very dry day that many hours later.

 

[catman529]

I'd say so. They have more acute perception of movement, at least as good hearing or better, and unimaginably better sense of smell. We have thumbs so we win.

I tend to think we hunters underestimate certain aspects of deer, while over crediting other aspects. Case in point, I don't think they are nearly as smart as we are nor do I believe their brains operate the same way. As us predators & they prey, I think we are wired completely different. We tend to relate with them as if they have the same cognitive abilities as us but they don't. We solve problems through calculating & consideration. Their brains automatically do it upon a single whiff, as if their nose is their brain. I'd have to think they are more reactive where we are proactive. When they avoid us it's because they're reacting to a negative experience such as catching our ground scent. I don't think they actually run the gears in their brain to figure out if they should, where they should, how they should. It just happens automatically, at least mostly. That said I think they do have a level of cognition, an ability to think through a problem, but not at the same level or in the same way we do. That's just my thoughts though. I'm willing to be wrong.

Well said, I agree. Deer don't think the same way as us, and they're definitely not smarter, otherwise they'd be inventing technology to avoid us. It's hard to think like a deer when you're not a deer. They have survival instinct coupled with an insanely good nose and a long term memory of bad experiences that teach them how to avoid danger. And we can only hunt them during the day, but they are active day and night. Some of the better deer hunters out there are more simple minded folks, think about that. Deer are simple creatures. Turkeys are even dumber than deer, but look at how hard they can be to hunt sometimes.

 

[DRSJ35]

Well said, I agree. Deer don't think the same way as us, and they're definitely not smarter, otherwise they'd be inventing technology to avoid us. It's hard to think like a deer when you're not a deer. They have survival instinct coupled with an insanely good nose and a long term memory of bad experiences that teach them how to avoid danger. And we can only hunt them during the day, but they are active day and night. Some of the better deer hunters out there are more simple minded folks, think about that. Deer are simple creatures. Turkeys are even dumber than deer, but look at how hard they can be to hunt sometimes.

I tend to overthink it. Deer are definitely simple minded. Still amazes me at how a deer can just appear sometimes seems from thin air. After you just walked through 6 inches of dried leaves. That was so loud it's insane. Then other deer make a ton of noise when walking through them. Guess they are simple minded. But like people some are smarter than others. I do like the simple minded hunters quote though. Lol

 

[woodsman04]

I am far from a great deer hunter. I'm not sure how long it takes to go away. But for a deer I'm sure it's a few days.

Anyways, one thing I have noticed is that I am fairly certain they know what time you walked through. I've hunted a long time and have observed this countless times….

Deer are more comfortable at dark as we all know. One instance I have seen this is running cameras. I can walk past one headed back home after my evening hunt. Just a few minutes later, which it's dark, I will have pictures of deer. Not just does and young ones, but mature ones. No doubt that they could smell me, but they are comfortable at night.

Another observation that is even more interesting. I always try to get to my stand and leave no ground scent in an area where I think I will see deer. But hunting in the south where it's more woods than fields it's inevitable that it will happen many occasions. I always try to be in my tree at latest 30-40 minutes before daylight, preferably an hour. But I have many times seen deer go through my ground scent from pre-dawn and not spook. Maybe just smell out of curiosity. They know it was there before dawn. But if I'm late to my stand and they smell it they spook. Same as an afternoon hunt. It doesn't matter if I get in my tree 5-6 hours before dark and they get my ground scent an hour before dark they seem to spook.

Their noses are incredible. You may get by with band wind with does and young ones. But unless a mature buck is following a doe in heat he has no tolerance for human scent. If they see you or hear you you might get a second chance at a shot. If he winds you it's over.

 

[Bushape]

The one study I've seen where a tame doe was used, she could track an individual human through an area where many people had walked. In essence, they can identify individual people, not just "human" versus some other animal.

So it's safe to assume that the way we utilize scent control products, coupled with our natural human scent, creates a "hunter" scent that would definately alert deer even more so than a non threatening human who smokes marlboro reds as he walks the property line every morning.

 

[DeerCamp]

Years ago, had moved a greenbrier vine out of the way with my bare hand to get to my stand. 10 days later, I watched a deer sniff that vine and freak out. It lasts longer than you think. Now the question is, how much do deer care? Where human scent is normal year-round, not much. Where human scent only occurs during deer season, quite a bit!

We rarely (if ever) knowingly get busted from scent at my the home farm. I think this is why.

I suspect the fact that our kitchen and bathroom vents all vent directly outside of our house, which sits on the high point of the property, directly North of our primary food plots and stands just constantly bombards the woods with our scent.

Probably not optimal for wary, mature bucks living directly on the property, but possibly optimal for seeing lot of other deer that don't ever seem to care about scent.

 

[Ski]

I tend to overthink it. Deer are definitely simple minded. Still amazes me at how a deer can just appear sometimes seems from thin air. After you just walked through 6 inches of dried leaves. That was so loud it's insane. Then other deer make a ton of noise when walking through them. Guess they are simple minded. But like people some are smarter than others. I do like the simple minded hunters quote though. Lol

I wouldn't say they're simple minded. Their brains just operate differently than ours, so we have trouble relating to them. I see it as a mile in their shoes kind of way. Without being a deer it's hard to understand what happens in a deer's head. Since they allegedly don't have an ability to rationalize, we assume that means they're stupid. They're not. A 5yr old buck anywhere outside of captivity is arguably the most wily, difficult to hunt animal on the planet. They learn quickly & have amazing memory.

It does seem some of the best big buck hunters are a few crayons short of a full box, though. So maybe there is something to the simple minded hunter thing. Maybe we could call it the Forrest Gump strategy We're all sitting around trying to figure it all out while the Gumps are just walking out into the woods and punching tags. So easy a caveman can do it.....literally.

 

[BSK]

I'm in my food plots year-round, always doing something. Deer pay little attention to my scent in the plots. But back in the woods, where I only going during hunting season? Yea, they're not happy about that! Get some real negative reactions!

 

[BSK]

A 5yr old buck anywhere outside of captivity is arguably the most wily, difficult to hunt animal on the planet. They learn quickly & have amazing memory.

Agree completely. Although deer can't reason, their memory for "negative" encounters is amazing.

 

[DeerCamp]

Well said, I agree. Deer don't think the same way as us, and they're definitely not smarter, otherwise they'd be inventing technology to avoid us. It's hard to think like a deer when you're not a deer. They have survival instinct coupled with an insanely good nose and a long term memory of bad experiences that teach them how to avoid danger. And we can only hunt them during the day, but they are active day and night. Some of the better deer hunters out there are more simple minded folks, think about that. Deer are simple creatures. Turkeys are even dumber than deer, but look at how hard they can be to hunt sometimes.

I read an new study recently on animal intelligence that I thought was cautiously fascinating.

edit: Just found it.

https://www.mpg.de/17989792/1208-ornr-one-algorithm-to-rule-decision-making-987453-x
The study reveals that animals cope with environmental complexity by reducing the world into a series of sequential two-choice (binary) decisions — a strategy that results in highly effective decision-making no matter how many options there are.

I am not directly extrapolating these results to deer, but in contrast, humans might take a simple scenario - should I go out to get dinner with friends? Its a simple yes/no really. But then we start thinking about it... "Well, there's COVID, and I didn't sleep good last night, I dont really feel social today but I don't want Jenny to think I'm mad at her. And I do need to pick up some last minute gifts. I also need to call my parents. And crap, the kids are due for the dentist, need to make that appointment. Maybe I'll drink some wine and scroll through facebook."

In the animal world - that human is gonna die. Too much overcomplication.

Deer is probably like: "Hungry. Green field taste good. Smell/see/detect danger? Yes. Run."

Deer lives.

 

[102]

Great topic.
And very involved.
There ate MANY variables.
Every deer has different personalities. I equate a deers reaction to human scent to a humans reaction to spiders.
Some freak out, some don't. Snakes too. Mice too.

Depends on the deer .

But human scent lingers for weeks in the right conditions.

Also, as we walk through an area our scent molecules drift off us and land on nearby foliage, objects, ground.

Draw a x op a dry erase board, draw your access/egress path, and repeat every time you hunt that stand. Also add the downwind areas that were affected by the scent molecules.

Probably the most important aspect of deer hunting that there is.

 

[BSK]

Draw a x op a dry erase board, draw your access/egress path, and repeat every time you hunt that stand. Also add the downwind areas that were affected by the scent molecules.

Probably the most important aspect of deer hunting that there is.

Interesting idea.