Growing Mature Bucks

[bowhunterfanatic]

But it does seem odd that of the 101 bucks that have been killed off the property in the 36 seasons we've owned/hunted this property, the top 8 bucks ever killed are mine.

This is incredibly interesting to me. Seems just pure luck would have sent a large antlered deer past another hunter at least a time or two. Essentially all of my hunting is done in and around big ag, totally opposite of what you are hunting, but in my area being an above average hunter or woodsman seems to have very little effect on the class of bucks those people are killing. Instead, we see the same handful of hunters killing the vast majority of the large antlered deer year in and year out, simply due to the fact they are able to hunt the best blocks of cover adjacent to our ag. Most of these hunters seem to hunt the exact same stand every single day regardless of conditions, knowing that if they sit there long enough a good buck will eventually show up.

 

[BSK]

Not criticizing this thought, but my personal paradigm has shifted somewhat from "killing a buck" each year to "killing a deer" each year.

The other family members who only hunt 5-7 days spend as much money managing the property as I do (some, more). I wouldn't want to take away from the thrill of the realist chance of killing a buck each year. And they are absolutely thrilled with that 85-95 class 2 1/2 year-old 8-pointer. More power to them. In addition, because of our unique situation, what we kill one year has little relevance to what is on the property the next. If killing those 2 1/2s was harming the buck age structure, we might reevaluate, but to date, it's not.

Once we went to passing on all yearling bucks, our age structure rose until it "maxed out" around 2003. Since then, it has stayed basically the same no matter what we kill. Below is a graph if our buck age structure 2003 to the present. I have it graphed on a 3-year running mean to take out the annual fluctuations due to small sample size. This statistical technique displays the true trends. Notice the trend - a flatline. Now not all properties will work this way. I can show graphs from other properties where it's very apparent what they kill matters! My property - being primarily transient deer - is somewhat unique.

 

[BSK]

This is incredibly interesting to me. Seems just pure luck would have sent a large antlered deer past another hunter at least a time or two. Essentially all of my hunting is done in and around big ag, totally opposite of what you are hunting, but in my area being an above average hunter or woodsman seems to have very little effect on the class of bucks those people are killing. Instead, we see the same handful of hunters killing the vast majority of the large antlered deer year in and year out, simply due to the fact they are able to hunt the best blocks of cover adjacent to our ag. Most of these hunters seem to hunt the exact same stand every single day regardless of conditions, knowing that if they sit there long enough a good buck will eventually show up.

That is interesting. But obviously those successful hunters have it figured out: cover next to ag. But then that comes down to who owns what piece of land adjacent to the ag.

I guess the difference in our situation is visibility. Most of our kills, and virtually every kill of a Top 10 buck, has been point blank (inside 25 yards). To figure out how to get within 25 yards of a big/old buck is not easy. In ridge-and-hollow hardwoods, understanding how deer use terrain and being able to recognize good terrain features when you see them, are key.

 

[Ski]

Most of these hunters seem to hunt the exact same stand every single day regardless of conditions, knowing that if they sit there long enough a good buck will eventually show up.

There's a lot to be said for familiarity. Knowing from experience how deer use the and is a knowledge that trumps all. You can't kill a big buck where a big buck doesn't walk. If you know a place is favored by big bucks because you've seen it happen season after season, then you've got the goose who laid the golden egg.

 

[Boll Weevil]

If you know a place is favored by big bucks because you've seen it happen season after season, then you've got the goose who laid the golden egg.

This could be a whole new thread of its own but alot (and I mean MOST) of our old/big bucks are seen/killed in the same places and from the same stands. Over the years we've tried to analyze why a particular spot is what it is and tweaked it if needed. The combination of factors these old deer are apparently drawn to year after year is remarkably similar from buck to buck.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

In ridge-and-hollow hardwoods, understanding how deer use terrain and being able to recognize good terrain features when you see them, are key.

This needs repeating for those in the back.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

This could be a whole new thread of its own but alot (and I mean MOST) of our old/big bucks are seen/killed in the same places and from the same stands. Over the years we've tried to analyze why a particular spot is what it is and tweaked it if needed. The combination of factors these old deer are apparently drawn to year after year is remarkably similar from buck to buck.

Spot on BW. Certain areas with particular terrain features can draw bucks year after year. Not only in their travels, but also bedding locations. It's quite fascinating

 

[Ski]

This could be a whole new thread of its own but alot (and I mean MOST) of our old/big bucks are seen/killed in the same places and from the same stands. Over the years we've tried to analyze why a particular spot is what it is and tweaked it if needed. The combination of factors these old deer are apparently drawn to year after year is remarkably similar from buck to buck.

Yessir I have one spot that fits the bill to a T. It's a finger ridge below a south facing saddle, and in between is a deep narrow ravine. The biggest, oldest bucks I ever catch on cam are crossing from ridge to ridge and using that ravine to hide themselves. Been killing big ones there for as long as I can remember, and no doubt hunters before me have been doing the same. The spot flat out produces.

 

[Boll Weevil]

While we certainly have some terrain, it's nothing like what exists in middle and east TN. We aren't referred to as flatlanders for no reason. What we have found is wind is key as old deer use their noses a lot more than younger to keep tabs on what's going on. We call it "splitting the wind" when a buck thinks he's gotcha but he ain't quite gotcha.

The thread about longer shots plays in here too…many of these bucks prolly thought they ate a bad soybean or something because as far as they know, we aren't even in the same zip code when the lights go out.

 

[beefydeer]

In ridge-and-hollow hardwoods, understanding how deer use terrain and being able to recognize good terrain features when you see them, are key.

I wish I could use terrain to up my odds of seeing deer. Where I hunt in Obion county it is flat as a pancake. Literally, flat bottomland. Thousands of acres where there is probably less than 3 feet of elevation change. The deer literally travel anywhere they want. You just have to put in the time and hope they come by. There are things to look for such as good food sources and changes from thick cover to open woods, but zero terrain features except for a ditch.

 

[BSK]

I wish I could use terrain to up my odds of seeing deer. Where I hunt in Obion county it is flat as a pancake. Literally, flat bottomland. Thousands of acres where there is probably less than 3 feet of elevation change. The deer literally travel anywhere they want.

Put me in that situation, and I would be lost. I've spent so much of my hunting career learning terrain features that I would hardly know where to start. But I guess I would be pouring over satellite images and aerial photos looking for habitat features that would bottleneck movement.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

What we have found is wind is key as old deer use their noses a lot more than younger to keep tabs on what's going on. We call it "splitting the wind" when a buck thinks he's gotcha but he ain't quite gotcha.

When hunting close quarters, most definitely. Hunting unique terrain features most often requires you to give them the majority of the advantage, while you are "just off" and ready to strike

 

[megalomaniac]

I beginning to consider the idea that the older bucks simply didn't expand their ranges for the rut. Because it is well known that in a hardwood environment buck sign-making (rubs and scrapes) is heavily influenced by acorn crops (average animal health), perhaps the deer were in such poor shape from the drought conditions and lack of acorns that they didn't expand their ranges much for the rut this year. That is the only thing I can think of that would explain the "lack of new bucks showing up on cam for the rut" that so many in the region have been complaining about.

You need to look at the ag land around you... some farmers may have claimed their crops under insurance and not harvested them, keeping the deer down in the bottoms. And if noone had acorns, some of the best food this time of the year is crop residue or the weeds growing at the edges of the crop fields. If those ag fields are not getting hunting pressure, it's pretty easy for a pile of deer to bed right along the river just off the crop fields during the day, and feed all night long.

 

[beefydeer]

I would be pouring over satellite images and aerial photos looking for habitat features that would bottleneck movement

This is exactly what I do. Funnels and food sources. Most funnels consist of narrow spots in the woods between a river or lake and a field and I only hunt out of the way spots accessible by boat. I do not ever do walk in hunting. I have one spot where we have killed some nice bucks where the woods are about 100 yards wide between the lake and a huge CRP field. Sit right in the middle of it and can shoot all the way to either side. Super highway during the rut. 100% public land as well. We also look for patches of oak trees in the cypress swamps. Magnets for deer when the acorns are falling.

 

[TheLBLman]

Where I hunt in Obion county it is flat as a pancake. Literally, flat bottomland.

All my life I've heard of far West TN & West KY hunters talk about "ridges".
But what many are referring to is just some linear ground that may be as little as a foot higher than the surrounding area. But when you're hunting near the Mississippi River, that is a "ridge" and these "ridges" are often under water, not visible if you don't know they're there.

Knowing subtle ridges can mean the difference in using hip boots instead of needing chest waders, and am talking more about deer than duck hunting here. Deer living in swampland environments often prefer to swim across a slough as go around it, and won't necessarily follow the "ridgeline". I often find deer bedded at the base of a big cypress tree, surrounded by knee-deep & higher water. The cypress knees often allow them to get a foot or two above the surrounding water.

 

[beefydeer]

I often find deer bedded at the base of a big cypress tree, surrounded by knee-deep & higher water.

Yes. I have seen deer bed in water. Living in that wet environment they relate the water to safety, like they know humans will not chase them across the water.

 

[beefydeer]

Knowing subtle ridges can mean the difference in using hip boots instead of needing chest waders,

I keep a pair of waders in the boat for this. I dont even duck hunt and own chest waders.

 

[BSK]

You need to look at the ag land around you... some farmers may have claimed their crops under insurance and not harvested them, keeping the deer down in the bottoms. And if noone had acorns, some of the best food this time of the year is crop residue or the weeds growing at the edges of the crop fields. If those ag fields are not getting hunting pressure, it's pretty easy for a pile of deer to bed right along the river just off the crop fields during the day, and feed all night long.

I have a client across the lake from me. Their land is similar to mine in that it is mostly ridge-and-hollow hardwoods. However, unlike my property, they own the land all the way down to the lake, so they own some bottomland hardwoods as well. They found some of the Swamp White and Swamp Chestnut Oaks in the wet bottoms produced good acorn crops. ALL the deer on the property were bedding on the first ridgelines adjoining those bottoms and then moving into the bottoms at night to feed. Having the deer so concentrated produced some awesome hunting. They killed two of their biggest bucks ever (both in the 160s).

I got to thinking about that and last weekend did some scouting out onto the last bluffs over the bottoms that adjoin my place (but are not on my property). The sign out on those bluffs was crazy. Huge rubs and fresh scrapes everywhere. 100 yards away on place, virtually nothing. But at least I now know "what happened" and why the old bucks didn't shift into my property during the fall.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

I have a client across the lake from me. Their land is similar to mine in that it is mostly ridge-and-hollow hardwoods. However, unlike my property, they own the land all the way down to the lake, so they own some bottomland hardwoods as well. They found some of the Swamp White and Swamp Chestnut Oaks in the wet bottoms produced good acorn crops. ALL the deer on the property were bedding on the first ridgelines adjoining those bottoms and then moving into the bottoms at night to feed. Having the deer so concentrated produced some awesome hunting. They killed two of their biggest bucks ever (both in the 160s).

I got to thinking about that and last weekend did some scouting out onto the last bluffs over the bottoms that adjoin my place (but are not on my property). The sign out on those bluffs was crazy. Huge rubs and fresh scrapes everywhere. 100 yards away on place, virtually nothing. But at least I now know "what happened" and why the old bucks didn't shift into my property during the fall.

That makes a lot of sense. While I don't know where, I know it wasn't in our "hill country" where those deer were hanging out. I'm sure there are some better food sources down low around us. The duck river is a few miles from us as the crow flies. Those areas have validity

 

[BSK]

That makes a lot of sense. While I don't know where, I know it wasn't in our "hill country" where those deer were hanging out. I'm sure there are some better food sources down low around us. The duck river is a few miles from us as the crow flies. Those areas have validity

The strange thing is, for my county, buck harvests are WAY up this year over last. But that follows the general pattern that in good acorn years, buck kills for the region fall as bucks don't have to move much to find food. In a poor acorn year, kills climb because bucks have to move farther and more often.

Yet in my particular area, buck kills seem to be way, WAY down this year. We heard very few gunshots this year during either MZ or gun season. I guess the one positive to this year's conditions is that a very high percentage of the bucks in my area are going to survive hunting season. This bodes well for future years.