Clubs Under Buck Management Programs

[Andy S.]

^^^^ The website needs to be updated, been a couple shooters killed since 12/9.

 

[fairchaser]

^^^^ The website needs to be updated, been a couple shooters killed since 12/9.

I think it's up to date now!

 

[easy45]

I don't have much good to say about the management at Ames and I know Fairchaser is one of the biggest defenders of the Ames staff and what they do but I am glad to see you finally say that the doe harvest has hurt the hunting. They have wreaked havoc of the deer population in the area. Way to many does have been killed, we have seen way less rutting action and way less deer over the last few years and why is simple, no does, no bucks. The majority of the long time members agree with this. We have quit killing does on our place simply because we see so few.


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[fairchaser]

I don't have much good to say about the management at Ames and I know Fairchaser is one of the biggest defenders of the Ames staff and what they do but I am glad to see you finally say that the doe harvest has hurt the hunting. They have wreaked havoc of the deer population in the area. Way to many does have been killed, we have seen way less rutting action and way less deer over the last few years and why is simple, no does, no bucks. The majority of the long time members agree with this. We have quit killing does on our place simply because we see so few.


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Easy45, it might please you to hear that management has just yesterday put a letter out to the membership telling us to back off the doe killing unless you just want or need to kill a doe. We are about 30-35 shy of our goal but based on their review of the observation data, decided to back off! Miracles never cease.

 

[Mike Belt]

Better late than never but the damage is done for the year in units 4 and 5 considering they're closed for the rest of the season anyway. I suspect unit 3 may have accounted for a few more by season's end but very few if any from 1 and 2.

 

[fairchaser]

Better late than never but the damage is done for the year in units 4 and 5 considering they're closed for the rest of the season anyway. I suspect unit 3 may have accounted for a few more by season's end but very few if any from 1 and 2.

Based on the time left in the season and the skeleton crew of hunters, hitting the goal seemed unlikely anyway. I think it shows alot of flexibility of management to adjust on the fly and put the brakes on. I was really expecting to get a memo about needing to redouble our efforts to make the goal.

 

[Mike Belt]

Something that has me confused is that it's said you can't base management decisions on hunter observations but when tallying all hunter observations for the year and posting those numbers they're used to show that we have no shortage of does. With no other censuses being done what else is used to determine numbers? For the most part there's nothing that makes does unique as in buck sightings. The same hunter can hunt the same stand 5 days in a row and see 6 does each set. Chances are very good he's seeing the same deer daily. There's possibly another hunter hunting just over the ridge from him for those 5 days. He's seeing the same does. Together their observation forms indicate 60 does. Unless I'm missing some other formula used if management's decision to remove "X" number of does is based on club wide season wide observations then it appears to me that they're basing kill quotas on over inflated numbers. Of course there's no way to prove that those does sighted were the same does daily but just as well there's no way to prove they weren't. The end result appears to be that there are fewer "individual" deer being seen because there are fewer "individual" deer still alive. It's great that management realizes this and makes adjustments albeit this late in the season I question the significance. It'll be interesting to see just how this plays into next year's goals.

 

[Mike Belt]

I might add to the above post.....

I know deer cover a lot of ground and their home ranges can shift about but when "counting" deer to set management goals I don't know if it'd be a fair assessment to include what are deemed safety zones. They don't get near as much hunting pressure. Does seem to be more home bodies than bucks and for the most part tend to stick to an area provided they have the resources for doing so. If there are triple or quadruple+ the does seen in a single setting by those allowed to hunt the safety zones as from the hunters in the hunting zones and those numbers are used to set quotas it again looks like those quotas are based on over inflated numbers. Should a separate quota be mandated coming from just the safety zones?

 

[ruthunter]

Kinda off subject, but are the weights listed on bucks harvested at Ames live weight or field dressed?

 

[Mike Belt]

Field dressed on does and bucks. No rhyme or reason for the varying weights. A 2.5 year old may weigh 25 pounds more than a 4.5 year old even outside of the rut.

 

[Snake]

Something that has me confused is that it's said you can't base management decisions on hunter observations but when tallying all hunter observations for the year and posting those numbers they're used to show that we have no shortage of does. With no other censuses being done what else is used to determine numbers? For the most part there's nothing that makes does unique as in buck sightings. The same hunter can hunt the same stand 5 days in a row and see 6 does each set. Chances are very good he's seeing the same deer daily. There's possibly another hunter hunting just over the ridge from him for those 5 days. He's seeing the same does. Together their observation forms indicate 60 does. Unless I'm missing some other formula used if management's decision to remove "X" number of does is based on club wide season wide observations then it appears to me that they're basing kill quotas on over inflated numbers. Of course there's no way to prove that those does sighted were the same does daily but just as well there's no way to prove they weren't. The end result appears to be that there are fewer "individual" deer being seen because there are fewer "individual" deer still alive. It's great that management realizes this and makes adjustments albeit this late in the season I question the significance. It'll be interesting to see just how this plays into next year's goals.

I see where you are coming from and those numbers as far as data could be skewed . I could be wrong but if you have a plentiful supply of does during the rut you should see a lot of chasing . There maybe another factor since I've heard some facts from those that hunt Ames is that some rutting activity could be happening in the safety zones away from hunters . I have learned to never underestimate the whitetail deer on their ability to fool hunters especially mature deer buck or does .

 

[david k.]

Does anyone know what are we up to on button bucks for the year?

 

[fairchaser]

Does anyone know what are we up to on button bucks for the year?

I believe 17-18 last count.

 

[fairchaser]

I know many of us Ames members begrudge having these safety zones where members are forbidden to go. But, have you given thought to the other side of the equation. It's also someplace where a buck like what was killed the other day (161 inch 5.5 year old) can grow without being killed as a 3.5 year old. As you can see, in the pics he would have been shot, had he been seen outside the safety zone. We know these bucks don't live their entire life in a safety zone because those pics were taken outside the safety zone. They may spend much of their time there but they don't read maps and can certainly slip up. From what I understand this buck was given a pass for a couple years to see what he might do.

 

[Hollar Hunter]

I choose a different chunk of the property every 2 years in addition to my sanctuaries and no one steps foot in it for those 2 years. When I started managing the property it was rare to see a deer if driving anything because they were so spooked. Now you can drive around and see deer every time. Obviously there was more involved that help lead to this but it played a big role and still does in continuing to keep the deer on their feet in daylight...

 

[Snake]

I know many of us Ames members begrudge having these safety zones where members are forbidden to go. But, have you given thought to the other side of the equation. It's also someplace where a buck like what was killed the other day (161 inch 5.5 year old) can grow without being killed as a 3.5 year old. As you can see, in the pics he would have been shot, had he been seen outside the safety zone. We know these bucks don't live their entire life in a safety zone because those pics were taken outside the safety zone. They may spend much of their time there but they don't read maps and can certainly slip up. From what I understand this buck was given a pass for a couple years to see what he might do.

Now do you understand what I meant when I said us hunters want our cake and eat it too (no pun intended) as I put myself in the category ?

 

[Mike Belt]

fairchaser... If the safety zones hold all the does I've heard they do over the last few years do you think there should be a quota set for does in the safety zones outside that for the rest of the place?

 

[fairchaser]

fairchaser... If the safety zones hold all the does I've heard they do over the last few years do you think there should be a quota set for does in the safety zones outside that for the rest of the place?

It's a fair point Mike. I believe every member or employee should do their share of the doe killing. I have no way of knowing if that's the case for every employee or member for that matter but I have observed that it is a priority for some employees and especially so for those in charge. Whether they do their killing in the safety zones I don't know. It doesn't seem quite fair if the employees come into the common areas to kill does but save the safety zones for bucks. I don't have any clue that this happens at all and I kind of doubt it. I do know that the juveniles probably hunt in these safety zones to give them the best odds of killing something. I don't think there should be a safety zone quota on does as long as everybody kills their share.