Clubs Under Buck Management Programs

[muddyboots]

Good lord some people who agree with me. That's a new concept. Ha ha. In a nutshell shooting does didn't produce the results I wanted. I would wager a hefty amount u would like Ames a whole lot more if they only hunted does with a bow. We actually had this practice working to a tee in my best lease. We all saw and killed mature bucks every year. We never shot a doe with anything but a bow. But it's being auctioned as we speak online. I guess I will have to go back to trying to change the mindset of the members on my other lease.

Heck another example I had a buddy who had leased an 80 acre parcel in some ag ground. Pretty good hunting pressure all around him. He didn't shoot does. And to take if further he only hunted evenings. He killed some of the biggest deer in the county every year. It got sold also. He's struggled ever since. I can't guve up my mornings lol.

Back to the hunting women. I would go to the spot that had 20 women instead of 5. Lol

 

[Roost 1]

If any of you guys ever need another lease member please let me know. I'm 100% for protecting the does especially during the rut.

 

[fairchaser]

I believe that Ames in particular suffer from periods of too many does during the spring and summer and then too few does during fall and winter. This is the result of hunting pressure. How do we fix this? When the agriculture is growing and the food is plentiful the does flood into the plantation from the safety zones and from the dense cover and even from off the plantation. The farmers complain that deer are eating up all their crops and they might be and sometimes deer are blamed for any crop failure too.

Then come squirrel season and the club gets inundated with an onslaught of hunters riding ATVs and bikes with hundreds and hundreds of cameras and deer stands. For a young deer, this seems like Armageddon has started. For older deer, they know what's up, it's hunting season! Time to start heading for the hills so to speak and the bucks follow.

Every year the need to kill these does is intense and relentless. From a hunters perspective, we try to kill one or two with archery equipment. This has even become difficult and we consider it a victory in and of itself. But if not, you better kill the first one you see with a ML cause when the rut hits you would like to maybe pass one so you can concentrate on a buck without dragging dead does through the woods. But with the scarcity of seeing does, you better shoot anyone you see!

You would think late season the pressure would finally let up but no, we need to kill 40 more! What's a doe got to do to survive?

 

[Snake]

I believe that Ames in particular suffer from periods of too many does during the spring and summer and then too few does during fall and winter. This is the result of hunting pressure. How do we fix this? When the agriculture is growing and the food is plentiful the does flood into the plantation from the safety zones and from the dense cover and even from off the plantation. The farmers complain that deer are eating up all their crops and they might be and sometimes deer are blamed for any crop failure too.

Then come squirrel season and the club gets inundated with an onslaught of hunters riding ATVs and bikes with hundreds and hundreds of cameras and deer stands. For a young deer, this seems like Armageddon has started. For older deer, they know what's up, it's hunting season! Time to start heading for the hills so to speak and the bucks follow.

Every year the need to kill these does is intense and relentless. From a hunters perspective, we try to kill one or two with archery equipment. This has even become difficult and we consider it a victory in and of itself. But if not, you better kill the first one you see with a ML cause when the rut hits you would like to maybe pass one so you can concentrate on a buck without dragging dead does through the woods. But with the scarcity of seeing does, you better shoot anyone you see!

You would think late season the pressure would finally let up but no, we need to kill 40 more! What's a doe got to do to survive?

Do members at Ames have a voice on what management practices are used ? If not try suggesting some . Cut down on the does being killed to see if your buck sightings increase during rutting times . Ask to be able to let drivers push the safety zone areas to hunting areas . See if this is possible and if not you got what you got . I know from what I hear it is a grand lease but with restrictions and quite expensive .

 

[fairchaser]

Not really. We can make suggestions but management under the scrutiny of the farmers and trustees will decide what we do. The hunting club is several notches down the money list and therefore the priority list. You've got farming, cattle, timber, field trials and research just to name a few. I think we got what we got!

 

[TX300mag]

I would rather hunters shoot the does than the farmers on depredation permits. They will shoot just as many bucks as does-they don't care. Then it really won't matter what your buck program is.


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[Mike Belt]

Ames is a unique club in that deer hunting isn't the primary function. It's more a side note that adds some funds into the coffer. Therefore all considerations aren't directed towards deer hunting. The board of directors rule the place. The farmers farm the land and would be perfectly happy if there wasn't a deer on the place. If the deer eat any crops the farmers complain to the directors and they in turn question management as to why the deer numbers are so high and why they can't be controlled. Management in turn sets high goals for taking does. If they aren't met summer shooters come in and indiscriminately remove X number of mouths. Throw into the mix that the place is the home of the national field trial championship. As far as priorities that's number 1. The place is also a massive timber producer. That would probably rank second. Then the farming and cattle take preference followed by endowments towards different researches. Deer and turkey fall close to last place. They want the deer there but only in numbers low enough to pacify the farmers and the directors.

 

[poorhunter]

Good lord some people who agree with me. That's a new concept. Ha ha. In a nutshell shooting does didn't produce the results I wanted. I would wager a hefty amount u would like Ames a whole lot more if they only hunted does with a bow. We actually had this practice working to a tee in my best lease. We all saw and killed mature bucks every year. We never shot a doe with anything but a bow. But it's being auctioned as we speak online. I guess I will have to go back to trying to change the mindset of the members on my other lease.

Heck another example I had a buddy who had leased an 80 acre parcel in some ag ground. Pretty good hunting pressure all around him. He didn't shoot does. And to take if further he only hunted evenings. He killed some of the biggest deer in the county every year. It got sold also. He's struggled ever since. I can't guve up my mornings lol.

Back to the hunting women. I would go to the spot that had 20 women instead of 5. Lol

Love the idea of does only being killed with bow. I actually think a better solution is to start gun season a week earlier and end two weeks earlier with those last two weeks muzzleloader for doe only, and no does with a rifle. It seems too many does are being killed. I don't think this would be popular at all, but on a place like Ames or other leases I think you'd have a lot better hunting.

 

[Andy S.]

If they aren't met summer shooters come in and indiscriminately remove X number of mouths.

To be fair to all who read this, Ames has only done this ONCE, back in 2015 or so. If I recall correctly, 7-8 deer were shot in the summer, and 2-3 were bucks. We did not meet the doe goal last year and no deer were killed this past summer. It seems that was a one time thing to get the members attention. I'm not saying it won't be done again, but it has only been done ONCE thus far. I suspect we will not meet the doe goal again this year, so time will tell what actions will be taken going forward.

 

[TheLBLman]

As far as "only" killing the doe with arrows,
I strongly believe the perceived benefits have more to do with timing than the weapon.
I do believe it's best to kill the annual does as early as reasonably possible (such as October).
But normally, deer pay little more attention to a gun shot than a bow shot.

 

[Mike Belt]

Andy probably knows more about the summer shooting than I do. I do know the threat is made every year.

 

[megalomaniac]

17 buttons killed seems quite excessive from a group of who should be experienced/ avid hunters. I'd recommend an education seminar for members that should be mandatory following the mandatory 'scoring deer on the hoof' seminar.

Quit shooting fawns, quit shooting single 'does', and quit shooting 'does' in the first 30 minutes and last 30 minutes of daylight. That's where the majority of 'oops' happen.

The club I was on this past weekend is really making a turnaround. 1000 acres, 3 memberships. They were following DMAP recommendations and killing 30 does a year off it. After a couple years, they were wondering why their number of bucks was declining. They have plenty of food/ browse and overall population appears to be well under carrying capacity. I convinced them to limit doe harvest last year and limit to just juvies. IIRC, they killed 4 does last year. Saturday evening I had 7 unique buttons in a plot at once! The've only killed 1 spike so far this year (a 6 y/o), and overall fawn recruitment seems to be well above 80%. In a few more years, they will reap the rewards and be able to start killing a reasonable number of does annually (prob 8-10). It'll still take a couple years to recruit more young bucks into older age classes, but they are headed in the right direction.

 

[muddyboots]

Mega is spot on. I can't believe people are starting to believe like me. Is the apocalypse here. Wow. Lol.

 

[Mudbone]

This is a very educational thread. Good read. Not that I'll ever have a place large enough to apply any of the knowledge gained.

 

[Andy S.]

17 buttons killed seems quite excessive from a group of who should be experienced/ avid hunters.

Agree 100%.

Quit shooting fawns, quit shooting single 'does', and quit shooting 'does' in the first 30 minutes and last 30 minutes of daylight. That's where the majority of 'oops' happen.

Ditto....and quit shooting "does" at 100+ yards late in the season, and quit shooting the bigger of the two deer later in the season "thinking" it's the mamma doe, when it fact it is the button buck brother of the little doe fawn it is standing beside. The mamma (big doe) of the two has been dead for several weeks now.

 

[rukiddin]

A stud of a deer was killed today on Ames. Think he taped out a hair over 160 gross.

 

[muddyboots]

A stud of a deer was killed today on Ames. Think he taped out a hair over 160 gross.

That's awesome.

 

[Andy S.]

A stud of a deer was killed today on Ames.

This is true, but that is only part of the story. He was killed in an "Ames Employee" only area, also known as a "safety zone", not an area where paying members can access, much less hunt.

Aged at 5.5, 14" wide, 36" of mass, 150" as a clean 8 point, 10" of stickers around the bases.

Here are kill pics of the buck from yesterday morning:

2016 Trail Cam pics that I had on one of my cameras:

2015 Trail Cam pics from end of season:

 

[fairchaser]

It's great to see what the potential of the club can produce. They did open up 3 of these safety zones for bow only this season. I would love to see more of this especially in some of these places that hold these monsters.

 

[BigAl]

A stud of a deer was killed today on Ames. Think he taped out a hair over 160 gross.

I was wondering if any had been killed. The last one on the kill website was dated 12/9. I was thinking certainly something had to have been killed since then.
Looks like a great buck.