BSK: Reasonable expectations

[csi-tech]

I can only speak for Middle Tennessee but if you go hunting alot, at some point in any given year you will get a shot opportunity at a120" or greater deer at least once a year. Usually during 2nd muzzleloader. Every person I hunt with agrees and our mounts bear this out. The best ones are taken at that time.

 

[Winchester]

Some good and accurate posts imo BSK. I couldn't agree more that there is a WIDE range of hunters and skillsets out there. There is also a WIDE range of what makes those hunters happy and what expectations they have, and most importantly how much they are willing to put in to be successful. I can only imagine how hard it must be to deal with hunters who have NO idea of reality from watching to many hunting shows, or simply listening to tales of BS over the years. Whether its hunting on a well managed private tract of land, or hunting public property, theres a reason the same people are often consistently successful while many others in even better circumstances many times are not!

 

[TX300mag]

I know the day is quickly approaching, but I dread the day the hunting culture shames hunters for killing young bucks. Once that occurs, the expectations of younger and newer hunters will be unrealistic. I've seen fewer and fewer hunters in certain states recruited and STAYING because they are either ridiculed for killing a young buck or quickly become frustrated because they don't kill an acceptable buck. This goes for children as well.

If having a higher percentage of yearling bucks killed provides a positive experience for someone else, it's an acceptable trade off for me. It's especially important to me as I have several children who are very interested in hunting and I'm looking at the future. Tennessee is my choice for raising them as hunters for these reasons.

If I'm disgusted because I let a yearling or 2.5 year-old buck walks and someone else shoots it then maybe I'm not ready for that level of management and need to evaluate my expectations.

 

[WRbowhunter]

If killing a 125" deer was easy would it still be a trophy?

 

[ratsnakeboogy]

I know the day is quickly approaching, but I dread the day the hunting culture shames hunters for killing young bucks. Once that occurs, the expectations of younger and newer hunters will be unrealistic. I've seen fewer and fewer hunters in certain states recruited and STAYING because they are either ridiculed for killing a young buck or quickly become frustrated because they don't kill an acceptable buck. This goes for children as well.

If having a higher percentage of yearling bucks killed provides a positive experience for someone else, it's an acceptable trade off for me. It's especially important to me as I have several children who are very interested in hunting and I'm looking at the future. Tennessee is my choice for raising them as hunters for these reasons.

If I'm disgusted because I let a yearling or 2.5 year-old buck walks and someone else shoots it then maybe I'm not ready for that level of management and need to evaluate my expectations.

You and I need to meet and have a beer, I'm buyin'.

 

[TX300mag]

I know the day is quickly approaching, but I dread the day the hunting culture shames hunters for killing young bucks. Once that occurs, the expectations of younger and newer hunters will be unrealistic. I've seen fewer and fewer hunters in certain states recruited and STAYING because they are either ridiculed for killing a young buck or quickly become frustrated because they don't kill an acceptable buck. This goes for children as well.

If having a higher percentage of yearling bucks killed provides a positive experience for someone else, it's an acceptable trade off for me. It's especially important to me as I have several children who are very interested in hunting and I'm looking at the future. Tennessee is my choice for raising them as hunters for these reasons.

If I'm disgusted because I let a yearling or 2.5 year-old buck walks and someone else shoots it then maybe I'm not ready for that level of management and need to evaluate my expectations.

You and I need to meet and have a beer, I'm buyin'.

Pleasure would be all mine

 

[eightpointer]

BSK was retained by a hunting club that touches our old family farm in Humphreys County. Hopefully I will benefit from his wisdom and management practices. The Goofballs that have been hunting the farm are from East Tennessee and could care less. Their day will end and mine will begin.

Their license is good across the state.

 

[fishboy1]

Im with Tx300 well said.

Here is one of the major factors to big buck hunting that doesn't get examined deeply enough. SACRIFICE.

If you want to hunt for "mature bucks" or "big" bucks it takes hunting differently. To meet your own expectations it requires YOU to change the way you hunt. Now I know there are several dedicated big buck hunters who routinely kill mature & big bucks every single season. This isn't really for them since they have it figured out.

Well Motor oil is motor oil right ? Hunting is hunting, we just need more bucks and the whoppers will appear.....right? Uh....not really.
To frame it up in your mind, ask yourself these questions..

1. The weather is beautiful, cool with a light wind and its your first day off in weeks during your preferred deer season segment. Would you be willing to sit home because conditions were not right and you didn't want to educate that mature buck you got on trail cam during daylight the other day?
2. Would you be willing to avoid the best part of your hunting area for the entire season waiting for that ONE perfect day when the wind is just right, the weather is just right to go give the big boy a shot?
3. Are you OK realizing that you will likely allow ONE deer to dictate how you hunt or DON"T hunt for the entire season just for ONE or TWO chances when conditions are right to go after him?
4. Do you promise to forsake all other deer in order to keep from messing up the area and educating that big buck that you are hunting him?
5. Are you OK with knowing that taking a day off of mature buck hunting on your place to just go "deer" hunting COULD blow your chance at the big one for the entire season?
6. What kind of crazy stuff are you willing to do in order to get in and out without detection? How far are you willing to walk/Wade/paddle? How early are you willing to get in your tree? How late after dark are you willing to sit to make sure he has cleared the area ?
7. Are you willing to give up a segment of hunting entirely to increase your chances at a big one? No bow season.... perhaps? or Skip MZ waiting for rut in your area?
8. What are you willing to give up in order to scout your hunting properties intimately, know every possible tree for a stand in every little out of the way hole? Kids soccer games? Quit golf and fishing?
9. Are you willing to quit hunting with friends/family to increase your odds that nobody else will mess up your hunting for mature bucks?

To be consistently successful on mature bucks, these are the kinds of questions you will have to ask yourself.... Not every one, but many of them. More importantly, Look at how differently the approach to hunting is for mature bucks vs. "just deer hunting"...

There is a reason I call dedicated mature buck hunters "Iron men of hunting". Its a lot of work both off season and in season and a LOT of SACRIFICE to consistently kill mature bucks. You have to adopt a completely different mind set and use strict discipline in your hunting and start taking it seriously. It really is similar to becoming a professional athlete. God bless you if you are one of those dedicated people, I hope you have a wonderful season and post pictures of some pretty bucks.

BUT its not for the Majority of hunters and there is no shame in being a plain old hunter OR a mature buck hunter. I don't have the time, money, energy, skills, or desire to become a professional Hunter or ball player but it sure is fun to get out into the woods each fall hunting or to go to the court and smack a ball around .

Now contrast that with BSK's REASONABLE EXPECTATIONS..... is it reasonable to expect Pro level success for yourself or other hunters without the dedication and sacrifice necessary to outsmart mature bucks?

 

[landman]

Im with Tx300 well said.

Here is one of the major factors to big buck hunting that doesn't get examined deeply enough. SACRIFICE.

If you want to hunt for "mature bucks" or "big" bucks it takes hunting differently. To meet your own expectations it requires YOU to change the way you hunt. Now I know there are several dedicated big buck hunters who routinely kill mature & big bucks every single season. This isn't really for them since they have it figured out.

Well Motor oil is motor oil right ? Hunting is hunting, we just need more bucks and the whoppers will appear.....right? Uh....not really.
To frame it up in your mind, ask yourself these questions..

1. The weather is beautiful, cool with a light wind and its your first day off in weeks during your preferred deer season segment. Would you be willing to sit home because conditions were not right and you didn't want to educate that mature buck you got on trail cam during daylight the other day?
2. Would you be willing to avoid the best part of your hunting area for the entire season waiting for that ONE perfect day when the wind is just right, the weather is just right to go give the big boy a shot?
3. Are you OK realizing that you will likely allow ONE deer to dictate how you hunt or DON"T hunt for the entire season just for ONE or TWO chances when conditions are right to go after him?
4. Do you promise to forsake all other deer in order to keep from messing up the area and educating that big buck that you are hunting him?
5. Are you OK with knowing that taking a day off of mature buck hunting on your place to just go "deer" hunting COULD blow your chance at the big one for the entire season?
6. What kind of crazy stuff are you willing to do in order to get in and out without detection? How far are you willing to walk/Wade/paddle? How early are you willing to get in your tree? How late after dark are you willing to sit to make sure he has cleared the area ?
7. Are you willing to give up a segment of hunting entirely to increase your chances at a big one? No bow season.... perhaps? or Skip MZ waiting for rut in your area?
8. What are you willing to give up in order to scout your hunting properties intimately, know every possible tree for a stand in every little out of the way hole? Kids soccer games? Quit golf and fishing?
9. Are you willing to quit hunting with friends/family to increase your odds that nobody else will mess up your hunting for mature bucks?

To be consistently successful on mature bucks, these are the kinds of questions you will have to ask yourself.... Not every one, but many of them. More importantly, Look at how differently the approach to hunting is for mature bucks vs. "just deer hunting"...

There is a reason I call dedicated mature buck hunters "Iron men of hunting". Its a lot of work both off season and in season and a LOT of SACRIFICE to consistently kill mature bucks. You have to adopt a completely different mind set and use strict discipline in your hunting and start taking it seriously. It really is similar to becoming a professional athlete. God bless you if you are one of those dedicated people, I hope you have a wonderful season and post pictures of some pretty bucks.

BUT its not for the Majority of hunters and there is no shame in being a plain old hunter OR a mature buck hunter. I don't have the time, money, energy, skills, or desire to become a professional Hunter or ball player but it sure is fun to get out into the woods each fall hunting or to go to the court and smack a ball around .

Now contrast that with BSK's REASONABLE EXPECTATIONS..... is it reasonable to expect Pro level success for yourself or other hunters without the dedication and sacrifice necessary to outsmart mature bucks?

We are seeing more and more buyers in the market
place looking to buy a place just to kill a
"DEER" doe or buck. A yes many of those buyers
a looking to hopefully big there last home on
those tracts too. REASONABLE to many is
a 2.5yr or bigger buck, most don't know what
Score is or could care less. Net? It's in the boat,
2 to 3 deer for many is very happy hunting with
1 buck every so many years. And these guys
are on the same road that regularly has 150's
killed on it.

What makes them happy varies Greatly, but
don't misunderstand they call or email about
the tract that has the nice bucks pictures...
As We All Do

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

Im with Tx300 well said.

Here is one of the major factors to big buck hunting that doesn't get examined deeply enough. SACRIFICE.

If you want to hunt for "mature bucks" or "big" bucks it takes hunting differently. To meet your own expectations it requires YOU to change the way you hunt. Now I know there are several dedicated big buck hunters who routinely kill mature & big bucks every single season. This isn't really for them since they have it figured out.

Well Motor oil is motor oil right ? Hunting is hunting, we just need more bucks and the whoppers will appear.....right? Uh....not really.
To frame it up in your mind, ask yourself these questions..

1. The weather is beautiful, cool with a light wind and its your first day off in weeks during your preferred deer season segment. Would you be willing to sit home because conditions were not right and you didn't want to educate that mature buck you got on trail cam during daylight the other day?
2. Would you be willing to avoid the best part of your hunting area for the entire season waiting for that ONE perfect day when the wind is just right, the weather is just right to go give the big boy a shot?
3. Are you OK realizing that you will likely allow ONE deer to dictate how you hunt or DON"T hunt for the entire season just for ONE or TWO chances when conditions are right to go after him?
4. Do you promise to forsake all other deer in order to keep from messing up the area and educating that big buck that you are hunting him?
5. Are you OK with knowing that taking a day off of mature buck hunting on your place to just go "deer" hunting COULD blow your chance at the big one for the entire season?
6. What kind of crazy stuff are you willing to do in order to get in and out without detection? How far are you willing to walk/Wade/paddle? How early are you willing to get in your tree? How late after dark are you willing to sit to make sure he has cleared the area ?
7. Are you willing to give up a segment of hunting entirely to increase your chances at a big one? No bow season.... perhaps? or Skip MZ waiting for rut in your area?
8. What are you willing to give up in order to scout your hunting properties intimately, know every possible tree for a stand in every little out of the way hole? Kids soccer games? Quit golf and fishing?
9. Are you willing to quit hunting with friends/family to increase your odds that nobody else will mess up your hunting for mature bucks?

To be consistently successful on mature bucks, these are the kinds of questions you will have to ask yourself.... Not every one, but many of them. More importantly, Look at how differently the approach to hunting is for mature bucks vs. "just deer hunting"...

There is a reason I call dedicated mature buck hunters "Iron men of hunting". Its a lot of work both off season and in season and a LOT of SACRIFICE to consistently kill mature bucks. You have to adopt a completely different mind set and use strict discipline in your hunting and start taking it seriously. It really is similar to becoming a professional athlete. God bless you if you are one of those dedicated people, I hope you have a wonderful season and post pictures of some pretty bucks.

BUT its not for the Majority of hunters and there is no shame in being a plain old hunter OR a mature buck hunter. I don't have the time, money, energy, skills, or desire to become a professional Hunter or ball player but it sure is fun to get out into the woods each fall hunting or to go to the court and smack a ball around .

Now contrast that with BSK's REASONABLE EXPECTATIONS..... is it reasonable to expect Pro level success for yourself or other hunters without the dedication and sacrifice necessary to outsmart mature bucks?

I think your way over thinking it.

Where I hunt most mature bucks die by a bullet, and they are killed by young and old, and all skill levels. Out of the dozens of mature bucks that I have caught on trail cams the last 9 years, I can count on both hands the bucks that I can not account for being killed by a bullet. I use to think most mature bucks died of old age, but not anymore.

 

[Fearless]

This is the best discussion i have seen on this site in a long time, some very knowledgeable people have commented. After 54 years of hard living and stroke i have learned to relax and enjoy the hunting experience more than what i harvest. If i see a Coyote i take the shot no matter what, if i scare off deer its ok i have helped the herd. There is a time and place for QDMA, but there is also a time for a young or new hunter to take a small buck and be happy.

 

[fishboy1]

8pt Perhaps I am over thinking it. But in my experience and of the big buck hunters I know who routinely kill big bucks year after year, these are some of the sacrifices they make in order for it to happen.

Yes, people kill big bucks all the time by walking randomly into the woods and sitting somewhere, but can they kill their limit like that ? Can they do it year after year?

Back to the reasonable expectations bit.... nope its not reasonable to expect to kill mature bucks every year without specialization and sacrifice.

How many casual hunters do you know ( hunts a few weekends a year, maybe 5-10 days total ) who kill mature bucks every year ? I would love to meet them and shadow them on a hunt to see what they are doing that 99% of other hunters are not doing.

 

[Bowdacious]

I'm just gonna say Cades Cove, Ft Campbell, Presidents Island , and MLAAP. Its reasonable to to believe I can kill 130" every time I climb into a stand anywhere in the state. Regs that promote antler potential is the constant in each

Cades Cove? So the TWRA should manage the state like Cades Cove? OK, no more deer hunting, ever. There ya' go, enjoy the big buck watching.

Presidents Island? OK, only a handful of people can hunt one or two weekends per year, and only 9 points or better, and only hunt in a highly productive agricultural floodplain.

Honestly, I hate having to revert to my a-hole persona, but come on guys, get a grip on reality.

 

[TboneD]

We're the antler restrictions at Natchez on the North or South?

South side.....Guess I was just lucky.......Not really for antler restrictions but it did help the age of the bucks on Natchez Trace. I saw more buck sign and more bucks while the restriction was in place. I had much rather see a one buck limit to all WMAs that are open same as statewide plus a reduction of the doe harvest to only one per hunter per year. I really think it make public hunting land far more appealing to the hunters that hunt there.

You think all WMAs or public lands should have different deer limits than private land? Why? You think they get a lot more pressure or something? Nope. Makes too much sense. Gotta go to Mississippi for that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[landman]

You think all WMAs or public lands should have different deer limits than private land? Why? You think they get a lot more pressure or something? Nope. Makes too much sense. Gotta go to Mississippi for that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote

So your saying there shouldnt be Bonus Bucks

When Cross Creek NWR had the state limit
it was killing the herd

 

[TboneD]

You think all WMAs or public lands should have different deer limits than private land? Why? You think they get a lot more pressure or something? Nope. Makes too much sense. Gotta go to Mississippi for that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote

So your saying there shouldnt be Bonus Bucks

When Cross Creek NWR had the state limit
it was killing the herd

Sorry for the sarcasm but I wasn't referring to bonus bucks. I didn't think that TLRanger was referring to bonus bucks either since he was talking about WMA's that have the same season as statewide. With the buck reduction to two I'm ok with that but I sure wish they'd reduce the doe limit. Here in unit L guys can kill three antler less a day all season long off Percy Priest, Old Hickory, Yanali, Cedar Forest, and I probably left one or two out. Why should the limit be as liberal off public land as it is for private land? Just pointing out that in some other states like MS they are stricter with the limit on public land since it gets hunted harder. Makes sense to me.


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[ImThere]

You think all WMAs or public lands should have different deer limits than private land? Why? You think they get a lot more pressure or something? Nope. Makes too much sense. Gotta go to Mississippi for that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote

So your saying there shouldnt be Bonus Bucks

When Cross Creek NWR had the state limit
it was killing the herd

Sorry for the sarcasm but I wasn't referring to bonus bucks. I didn't think that TLRanger was referring to bonus bucks either since he was talking about WMA's that have the same season as statewide. With the buck reduction to two I'm ok with that but I sure wish they'd reduce the doe limit. Here in unit L guys can kill three antler less a day all season long off Percy Priest, Old Hickory, Yanali, Cedar Forest, and I probably left one or two out. Why should the limit be so liberal off public land as it is for private land? Just pointing out that in some other states like MS they are stricter with the limit on public land since it gets hunted harder. Makes sense to me.


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I agree TboneD

 

[Bowdacious]

There is a idea....draw access to wma for a season. Give a guy a chance to learn it, love it,and hunt it

I think it is best to just keep it how it is and let the ones that scout the WMAs tediously hunt them every year. The idea that hunters weren't successful because they didn't know the land will stay the same no matter what type of hunting regulations are in place. Everyone that has time to hunt has time to scout. Most procrastinate the scouting and it catches up to them because their hunt is a week away and they've wasted their available time throughout the year doing other things. Then come post season they have lost interest and neglect to go scout the WMAs they intend to hunt in the future. Even with WMAs being open year round most people are still not out there putting in the boot work to find a spot (which doesn't bother me by any means)

If some are like me, they barely have time to hunt. I have to neglect a lot of things I should be doing to get time to hunt. It's not always procrastination. It's time constraints and taking care of your responsibilities during the off times so you can make time for hunting.

 

[Bowdacious]

I know the day is quickly approaching, but I dread the day the hunting culture shames hunters for killing young bucks. Once that occurs, the expectations of younger and newer hunters will be unrealistic. I've seen fewer and fewer hunters in certain states recruited and STAYING because they are either ridiculed for killing a young buck or quickly become frustrated because they don't kill an acceptable buck. This goes for children as well.

If having a higher percentage of yearling bucks killed provides a positive experience for someone else, it's an acceptable trade off for me. It's especially important to me as I have several children who are very interested in hunting and I'm looking at the future. Tennessee is my choice for raising them as hunters for these reasons.

If I'm disgusted because I let a yearling or 2.5 year-old buck walks and someone else shoots it then maybe I'm not ready for that level of management and need to evaluate my expectations.

Sadly that day already arrived. I've read it here too many times for my taste. The worst was a member on here who killed a nice older buck but was chastised badly because he killed it in his back yard. He left the site over it. That's the day I realized that even some in my beloved tndeer family are cold and heartless. That was also the straw that broke the camel's back for me and cemented my choice to never post a kill online. You would also be shocked by how many got nasty private messages about deer they killed. Children of members included. It's sad.
Pay attention when someone does post a buck. Many are preceded by an apologetic remark about it not being very big or very old but that they are happy with it. Since when do we need to pre-apologize?? Maybe I'm just too sensitive to criticism of others' successes. I'll work on that.

 

[ffmedic]

Really sorry I did not see this post earlier. So a disclaimer I skipped all the responses to post this. SCN you are spot on in what you said about landowners and lease holders being in the proverbial LaLa land..lol. For me this question you pose exposes a greater issue that has and continues to grow across the south. Hunting is not just a past time anymore its become a marketing money giant for seed companies urine companies and what else camo companies. With the influx of large sums of money for a guy to say "buy this or buy that" to kill a monster buck. Now every land owner believes he/she can put out a food plot and grow a B and C buck. This belief has made land access difficult without paying and the "going" prices keeps "going" up. Pressure on public land continues to grow and the opportunity on public land declines regularly.
Also as for the antler regs and all the hustle and bustle about antler size. Antlers sit on a wall meat sits in your stomach. Antlers wont keep you alive meat will. Pretty simple