What would be considered the perfect buck to doe ratio? Not only for hunting but for the health of the heard. I'm thinking that I have more bucks than does. Can't be super positive but trail cams and just glassing I feel this way. Now as for November I can't be sure but seems late summer early fall before the "shift" that it's a possibility.
BSK? Or anyone else
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JeepKuntry
Well-Known Member
1 a piece. No more than 2-1.
As I understand it a perfect ratio is 1:1 or 1.5:1
That said I think it's really property specific. Case in point, if a "herd" inhabits several thousand contiguous acres then how many property lines does that encompass? My little 100 acre chunk is a minuscule snapshot of the bigger picture, like trying to determine what a puzzle depicts by looking at just one piece. For the vast majority of the year bucks & does are segregated by sex, sometimes age class as well. If my property is preferred buck bedding then bucks are what I'm going to see the most of and I'll think the herd sex ratio is skewed toward bucks. My neighbor might have great doe habitat so he thinks the sex ratio is skewed toward does. In reality it's all the same herd so to know the sex ratio we'd have to factor in what everybody in the entire region is seeing. Usually nature does a pretty solid job at keeping the sex ratio balanced, IMO.
That said I think it's really property specific. Case in point, if a "herd" inhabits several thousand contiguous acres then how many property lines does that encompass? My little 100 acre chunk is a minuscule snapshot of the bigger picture, like trying to determine what a puzzle depicts by looking at just one piece. For the vast majority of the year bucks & does are segregated by sex, sometimes age class as well. If my property is preferred buck bedding then bucks are what I'm going to see the most of and I'll think the herd sex ratio is skewed toward bucks. My neighbor might have great doe habitat so he thinks the sex ratio is skewed toward does. In reality it's all the same herd so to know the sex ratio we'd have to factor in what everybody in the entire region is seeing. Usually nature does a pretty solid job at keeping the sex ratio balanced, IMO.
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
In the real.world, 1.5 to 2 is what you want. Get to a 1:1 ratio, and you will lose so many bucks from fighting/ injuries, they will self regulate down to a 1:2 ratio.
You don't have more than 1:1 in the long run. You just don't have the best summer habitat. In other words, the does aren't on your place right now because they have a better place to rear fawns. The bucks get the leftovers. Once the rut starts, the bucks are going to the best habitat where the does are right now.
Everybody stresses about about having 'too many does'... thats only a problem if you arent providing more food than the herd needs.
Doe harvest needs to fluctuate wildly based on forage conditions and reproduction rates. 2y ago does were off limits. This year, we will probably kill 20.
You don't have more than 1:1 in the long run. You just don't have the best summer habitat. In other words, the does aren't on your place right now because they have a better place to rear fawns. The bucks get the leftovers. Once the rut starts, the bucks are going to the best habitat where the does are right now.
Everybody stresses about about having 'too many does'... thats only a problem if you arent providing more food than the herd needs.
Doe harvest needs to fluctuate wildly based on forage conditions and reproduction rates. 2y ago does were off limits. This year, we will probably kill 20.
BSK
Well-Known Member
In a natural, unhunted deer herd, the adult sex ratio is 1.2 adult does per adult buck (make sure NOT to include fawns in the adult doe count). However, to get to that ratio in a heavy buck-harvest environment often requires so much doe killing that hunters drive the does nocturnal which drives the bucks chasing them nocturnal as well. Personally, from a hunting standpoint, I think a ratio of 1.5 adult does per adult buck works out best. That's still enough competition to keep bucks competing against each other to make a lot of sign, and be willing to chase in daylight.
But also read Ski's post carefully. When assessing things like sex ratio, fawn recruitment rate and buck age structure, take into consideration the size of the property. As Ski pointed out, deer sexually segregate themselves for most of the year. Does and their fawns will dominate the best habitat in summer and bucks dominate the poorer habitat. This can produce summer data from a property that is heavily doe/fawn dominate or heavily buck dominant. But that won't last into the fall hunting season, the time of year when the two sexes mix fairly equally.
But also read Ski's post carefully. When assessing things like sex ratio, fawn recruitment rate and buck age structure, take into consideration the size of the property. As Ski pointed out, deer sexually segregate themselves for most of the year. Does and their fawns will dominate the best habitat in summer and bucks dominate the poorer habitat. This can produce summer data from a property that is heavily doe/fawn dominate or heavily buck dominant. But that won't last into the fall hunting season, the time of year when the two sexes mix fairly equally.
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What do you think is the tipping point in ratio (i.e. 3:1, 4:1) before you see significant health impactes on the bucks OR diminished seeking behavior?
BSK
Well-Known Member
Above 2 does per buck.
BSK
Well-Known Member
One other thing I will add about sex ratios and their effect on hunting: I don't think sex ratios are as determining of a factor in seeing bucks when hunting more open ground. In farm country, or properties with a lot of open ground, hunters don't need "herd dynamics" to drive buck sightings. Hunters can see and shoot bucks at long range, and any number of factors drive buck sightings in those environments. However, in "big woods" environments, or very thick habitat, herd dynamics are a major player in buck sightings. When bucks are feeding on acorns in thick/wooded habitat, catching bucks feeding is very difficult. Hunters need the rut activity of good herd dynamics to drive daylight buck activity.
Boll Weevil
Well-Known Member
True. Over the last nearly 12 years we've simultaneously improved herd structure, quality/volume of food, and overall habitat. Carrying capacity is far greater than what it was a decade ago and we've setup much of the property to take advantage of shots at distance and without applying as much pressure as "close quarters" situations.
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BSK
Well-Known Member
And I bet the results are good!
We've got some folks saying more bucks than does and some saying more does than bucks... Maybe some were confused by the question being "bucks to doe" ratio instead of "doe to buck" ratio?
I'm going with Megelomaniac and with BSK (who pulled the switch-a-roo and went doe:buck),
I'm going with Megelomaniac and with BSK (who pulled the switch-a-roo and went doe:buck),
BSK
Well-Known Member
Because a neighboring migratory bird refuge was attempting to eradicate the deer population through Earn-A-Buck programs (must shoot a doe before shooting a buck), my place ran a sex ratio favoring bucks for years (all the does were dead). This produced a VERY intense but VERY short rut. If you were there for the few days a year the rut was "on," it was crazy. But the rut would shut down very fast, and once it was over, it was over. I also worked on a very large property (6,000 acres) where we intentionally drove the sex ratio to 2 bucks per doe (out of curiosity/research purposes). Again, crazy intense but short rut. In addition, lots and lots of bucks with broken racks and missing eyes from fighting, as well as significant buck mortality due to fighting. In addition, because of the crazy herd dynamics, the rut was a month earlier than on surrounding properties.
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I've also heard the closer you get to 1:1, the more fighting will occur among bucks, causing more stress and also mortality due to intense fighting.
deerhunter10
Well-Known Member
I'd be willing to bet the majority of people have zero idea what theirs are or even close to it. For our little snap shots crop rotation can make it seem way off one way or another. People like bsk and others that do a deep dive into numbers and camera surveys and all of that hats off lots of time and energy in all honesty. It's crazy the shifts throughout the year in a whitetails moment.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Don't praise me too much. Yes, I get very deep into the numbers, but I do it because I get paid very well to do it!
The numbers, herd management & plots are as fun to me as hunting is anymore. It's really just another facet of the hunt and keeps me involved pretty much year round.
The past few years I've started really using our hunter observation log as much or more than pics to determine ratio and how many does we need to kill. With 40 food plots, pics on them are always more skewed to does. 1.5:1 is our goal and when we start to nudge close to 2:1, we increase the numbers killed.
I think knowing your property (and adjacent) is important as well. This will be my 22 year with 3500 acres, so pretty familiar with it & what neighbors are doing. 10+ years ago we initiated a rule that if you killed a buck, then you had to kill a doe as well. By taking the same number of does & bucks each year usually keeps a pretty good balance. However, the past few years we've been slowly going up a tick or two each year. Our numbers are now at 1.9:1, so in addition to killing as many does as we do bucks, we're going to kill another 15 does.
The past few years I've started really using our hunter observation log as much or more than pics to determine ratio and how many does we need to kill. With 40 food plots, pics on them are always more skewed to does. 1.5:1 is our goal and when we start to nudge close to 2:1, we increase the numbers killed.
I think knowing your property (and adjacent) is important as well. This will be my 22 year with 3500 acres, so pretty familiar with it & what neighbors are doing. 10+ years ago we initiated a rule that if you killed a buck, then you had to kill a doe as well. By taking the same number of does & bucks each year usually keeps a pretty good balance. However, the past few years we've been slowly going up a tick or two each year. Our numbers are now at 1.9:1, so in addition to killing as many does as we do bucks, we're going to kill another 15 does.
BSK
Well-Known Member
FANTASTIC post Tellico4x4!
You bring up so many key factors about collecting/analyzing herd dynamics numbers. Watching how the numbers change over time is key. Each property is different in its herd dynamics and herd dynamics trends over time, and it is those "trends over time" that really matter. Are things getting better, worse, staying the same? Answering that question and adjusting harvests accordingly is the right way to go about things. Too many hunters/managers get hung up on exact numbers. What is a perfectly acceptable number on one property could be absolutely disastrous on another. It is far more important to see the trend over time. Everything comes down to 1) what are hunters experiencing now with these numbers, 2) what is the trend over time, and 3) what could we do to get those trends to move in a more positive direction?
And I also want to reiterate what you said about doe harvests, as in, "By taking the same number of does & bucks each year usually keeps a pretty good balance." Back in the day, when small-land management first started to be talked about, highly skewed sex ratios were common, due to years and years of high buck-only harvests. At that time, "slaughter the does" was a necessity to get some sex ratio balance back. However, we are far from that now. It's extremely rare for me to find a property with highly skewed sex ratios anymore. Hunters have backed off the buck harvests and embraced doe harvests enough that sex ratios have gotten back closer to balance. Now, simply following the policy of killing as many does as you do bucks (and maybe slightly more does) WILL balance a local sex ratio over a couple of years' time. That is because fawns are born at a near 50:50 sex ratio. So give three or four generations of equal birth rate, in combination with a harvest practice that removes adult deer in equal numbers, and you will end up with a balanced sex ratio.
Thanks, learned a lot of it from you!
In the early years we killed 2-3 times as many does as bucks, but that changed after the bad EHD epidemic.
