Anyone using .223 / 5.56 cal for deer hunting?

[Hunter 257W]

Had a friend kill one this year in west Tn, 180lbs dressed, 180 inch non typ. A brute of a deer. He doesnt usually hunt deer with it, but had a guest come in, and he loaned his regular rifle. He had a good broadside shot, eighty yds, and put it in his lungs. He did shoot him twice. He said each shot the deer just flinched, the slowly went down. No doubt the 223 will do it, but seems a little small for me.

Yeah, a broadside, behind-the-shoulder hit on even a large deer doesn't require much penetration at all as you know. Their ribs are relatively light bones so a 223 will get the job done for that shot. I typically try to wait for a broadside shot but sometimes you have to take a raking shot at a running deer and then things change quickly. Instead of 3 inches of bullet penetration to get to the heart it may require 18 inches. As has been already said, a hunter should be ethical about shot placement no matter what he hunts with but larger calibers allow some deviation from the perfect shot. A "Texas heart shot" is not recommended with anything. Well, I DO have one rifle that I have taken that very shot with and had 100% confidence it could do the job. That is my 460 Weatherby using the 350 grain Hornady softpoint at 2,900fps. It will punch through a deer end-to-end time after time. Didn't carry the heavy beast to the woods at all this year though. A 10 1/2lb rifle - before the scope is added wears you down.

Congratulations to your friend, BTW, for a buck like that!

 

[TNhunter]

9mm with inferior ammo isn't the 'best' for personal protection. BUT with all the development with bullets it is completely a viable personal protection round. Just like the .223/5.56 - use the correct bullet and shot placement and it is FINE to use as a deer hunting weapon.

 

[BlountArrow]

Are we still talking about this? LOL

 

[stik]

I typically try to wait for a broadside shot but sometimes you have to take a raking shot at a running deer and then things change quickly.

you never "have to take" any shot. i will not shoot at a running deer. raking shot? what is that?

 

[Hunter 257W]

I typically try to wait for a broadside shot but sometimes you have to take a raking shot at a running deer and then things change quickly.

you never "have to take" any shot. i will not shoot at a running deer. raking shot? what is that?

Not bragging about my shooting (because I definitely was not a natural with a gun as a kid) but I've shot about half my bucks running. I don't get that many chances at bucks so I'm not going to lie and say I'll pass up anything but a perfect shot. I guess all the shotgun shooting I've done helps me there because most of the time I don't even recall specific details of my actions as I pulled the trigger - it's just sort of an automatic response. Swing, pull trigger and follow through. I can recall the sight picture and if it felt good which it usually does. I hit a doe running one time at about 125 yds 3 times in a row with - of all things - the 460 Weatherby using 300 grain Barnes bullets. Two of which mushroomed perfectly and stopped just under the far side hide. How that deer kept getting back to it's feet, I'll never understand except that I did not lead it far enough for the 1st shot and hit it too far back. I've yet to lose a deer either. Obviously hunting deer with a 460 Weatherby is ridiculous but I have the gun and sometimes use it. Typically I prefer the 25's or 270.

I assume you are serious asing what is a raking shot? That's when a deer is going away from you but not straight away so that you have to shoot maybe 2/3 of the way back the side of the rib cage to reach the vitals. OR maybe you were saying that you would never take that shot - hard to tell with typed words if someone is speaking literally or not.

 

[stik]

I typically try to wait for a broadside shot but sometimes you have to take a raking shot at a running deer and then things change quickly.

you never "have to take" any shot. i will not shoot at a running deer. raking shot? what is that?

Not bragging about my shooting (because I definitely was not a natural with a gun as a kid) but I've shot about half my bucks running. I don't get that many chances at bucks so I'm not going to lie and say I'll pass up anything but a perfect shot. I guess all the shotgun shooting I've done helps me there because most of the time I don't even recall specific details of my actions as I pulled the trigger - it's just sort of an automatic response. Swing, pull trigger and follow through. I can recall the sight picture and if it felt good which it usually does. I hit a doe running one time at about 125 yds 3 times in a row with - of all things - the 460 Weatherby using 300 grain Barnes bullets. Two of which mushroomed perfectly and stopped just under the far side hide. How that deer kept getting back to it's feet, I'll never understand except that I did not lead it far enough for the 1st shot and hit it too far back. I've yet to lose a deer either. Obviously hunting deer with a 460 Weatherby is ridiculous but I have the gun and sometimes use it. Typically I prefer the 25's or 270.

I assume you are serious asing what is a raking shot? That's when a deer is going away from you but not straight away so that you have to shoot maybe 2/3 of the way back the side of the rib cage to reach the vitals. OR maybe you were saying that you would never take that shot - hard to tell with typed words if someone is speaking literally or not.

i was not questioning your shooting ability. just mine it's a shot i will not take. and i was serious asking about the raking shot. i didn't know.

 

[Hunter 257W]

On the offside, I DID miss 4 shots at STANDING deer this year.......... Figure that one?? :blush: I blamed that on myself becoming one of those hunters that hardly shoots except at game the past few years. After all those misses, I got my 22 bolt action out and started shooting offhand at a steel gong at 100yards and then got the 7.62x39 carbine out for more of the same with a centerfire. After a few sessions I got some semblance of trigger control and follow through back and was hitting the 8� gong the majority of the time at 100 yards. Shooting has never come naturally for me - I have to work hard at shooting to stay good - luckily I enjoy doing it! I just have to start taking time again to stay in practice. And offhand shooting is the only way to really do that. A steel target and a scoped 22 rifle is the best way to get good without going broke buying ammo. You can fire repeated shots without walking to set up the target � you get instant feedback on each shot if it�s a �hit� or �miss� so that you can keep shooting. Regular sessions of 50 to 100 shots will do wonders for anybody.
For running game though, there�s no way most of us can really practice on moving targets with a rifle. How many ranges have a moving rifle target? The only ones I have seen are in Gun magazines. Shooting a shotgun though involves the same basic skills. The big difference is that with a rifle you have a precise aiming point (crosshair) where a shotgun only has a bead. The shotgun is pointed more than aimed. IMO, you have to be able to shoot with both eyes open to follow a running deer and shoot it with a scoped rifle. And for me, it should only be attempted when the deer is trotting. In other words, they are running but their body is traveling with a pure horizontal motion. Once they start bounding up and down, I don�t try it. Its one thing to lead the correct amount to hit a moving target but quite another to time the shot well enough when that same target is bounding up and down at the same time. I�m sure there are shooters who can but I probably never will be able to practice enough to even come close to doing that.

 

[Deer Boy]

My kids have killed almost 10 deer with one! We've only lost one during this time! But, in the hands of an excited 9 year old not too bad! My oldest boy killed one over 150 yards, that was the longest shot they've taken. Several drop in their tracks shots also. I think it's great for your hunters, now my oldest uses a 25-06 and my youngest boy uses a .243. The .223 is now waiting my 5 yo girl when she's ready to hunt! I also recommend using heavier soft point bullets! Never use fmj! To each his own on caliber! Enjoy the hunt and let me enjoy it my way!

 

[BMan]

I also recommend using heavier soft point bullets! Never use fmj!

FMJ is not legal for deer hunting, so soft or hollow points are required.

I've used 64 grain bullets for deer; what weight have you been using?

 

[Deer Boy]

Started off using the .55 gr Remington, found the .64 gr federal that I switched to that I like a whole lot better. The .64's I can never find off the shelf local, always have to order them.

 

[Jcalder]

Losing one out of ten deer is unacceptable in my book. Why not increase your odds with a gun that is better suited for deer.

 

[Deer Boy]

Jcalder, when everyone is as "good" as you are, then maybe no one will ever loose a deer! But a rifle in the hands of a 8 year old under not perfect conditions! One in ten I'll take all day long! That's a whole lot higher than most bow hunters on here! Take your high horse and ride it somewhere else! Also the only deer I have ever lost I shot it with a .338 win mag. Dropped him in his tracks, got down out of my stand and packed it up was walking to him he got up and ran off! Jumped him the next day and missed him running. Saw him a week later hobbling across a field. What do you propose now? .50 bmg?

BTW...thanks TN for allowing my kids to hunt with a caliber that doesn't scare them, they enjoy hunting and shooting a whole lot more!

 

[Jcalder]

I suggest you learn how to shoot for one. I'm not looking for an argument but losing 10% of your deer is unacceptable for me. And why are you letting an 8 year old take shots when the shot isn't there. I'm no marksmen by any means but I know when to pull the trigger and when not too.

 

[Deer Boy]

Your not looking for an argument? And telling me I need to Learn to shoot? You need to wake up! I've killed close to 100 deer only lost one with a high powerd rifle! Lost some with bow and muzzle loader.

If you've never lost a deer you haven't been hunting too long then!

As for the ONE lost with a .223 the shot was 40 yd "walking" shot. We tracked for over 300 yds, lost it in a wide open bean field. Later found out that the neighboring hunters found it and tagged it.

None the less, if YOU don't want to hunt with one then fine!...don't!

Just keep your mouth shut condemning others about the way they hunt! If your good enough to kill one with a sling shot and it was legal...more power to you, I'm not going to judge you!

 

[Jcalder]

I've lost one deer in the time I've been hunting. I'm not proud of it. But it happens. But to have the logic of losing one in ten ain't bad is crazy.

 

[Deer Boy]

When I was younger, I use to take the same stance that your taking and made the same arguments. I've done a lot of hunting with a .220 swift love that gun killed hundreds of ground hogs and a few coyotes with it. I've never taken it deer hunting, I feel confident in it! I later learned to let people hunt the way they feel is ethical or what they can afford to hunt with, without bashing their means!

You don't know the circumstances of the one lost, I can't explain what happened cause I don't know where the deer exactly was hit. I can't explain what happened to the one I shot with the .338! Things are going to happen in the deer woods that can't be explained. I use to bash people for using power belt bullets, cause they didn't preform well...in my opinion! I would never use them had too many friends lose deer with them. But, to each their own! I don't know where the deer was hit or what kind of shot they took? What does it matter to you and me? I have seen the .223 work great on deer dropping them in their tracks, I've saw deer shot with 30-06 heart shot run 100 yards...can't explain it! But some deer just don't want to die. I've double lung shot a doe in IL that ran about 50 yards, took three of us over 2 hrs in the dark to find her!...no blood! She was so fat the fat plugged the holes. I heard her crash, one guy helping kept saying I've never seen a lung shot deer not bleed. Well we found out why when we found her!

Just because someone loses a deer dont say that it's the caliber! Cause your not there and we don't know the circumstances!

 

[Jcalder]

In not bashing anyone for using a smaller caliber. But to have the logic of losing one in ten ain't bad is what I disagree with. I do agree that things happen that can't be explained. I'm glad you take your kids hunting but I couldn't let my kid take a shot on a deer and lose it, and tell them "well, losing one in ten ain't bad." I agree that with the proper bullet and placement it'll be fine. I'd also hate to know that I had to let a buck of a lifetime walk because the angle wasn't there for that bullet to get enough penetration to make a clean kill. As you stated above and I agree that things happen. I'd rather know that by using a bigger caliber is gonna help my chances at success if something goes wrong. Like I said before. I'm not looking for an argument. I'm not lookin to bash someone for using a .22 caliber rifle to deer hunt with. The biggest disagreement I have with your statement is losing one in ten ain't bad. You may not have meant for it to sound like it did but I'd to have that logic around any deer camp that I'm involved in.

 

[woodchuckc]

So 10 deer are shot by someone with a 223 and one is lost. How about if none are lost with the next 10 or 20 that are shot - that is now 1 in 20 or 1 in 30 that are lost - is that acceptable? I would say that it is not uncommon for a beginning deer hunter to lose one early in their hunting career. So if a hunter uses a 7mm mag and loses the first deer that they shoot does that mean they should sell it and get a bigger caliber, or do they continue to use it and kill the next 20, 30 or 100 they shoot at?

 

[Jcalder]

Woodchuck. I think you missed my point. I'm not saying that just because you lose one means you need to sell out or quit hunting. My point is saying that losing one in ten is not bad is not the logic to have. That's the issue I have. I understand that when you're young or just starting out you may lose an animal. But I don't think it's acceptable to think its ok to say one in ten ain't bad. I lost one deer within the first 3 years of hunting. I wasn't proud of it. Won't brag about it. It still bothers me. But I also learned to check my equipment everytime I go and to continuously practice. Losing animals happens. But I don't think saying one in whatever number is ok. Maybe my ethics are different than yours.

 

[Deer Boy]

Sorry you took it the wrong way then, your forgiven! Guess the point I was trying to make is two little squirts under 10 years old killed 9 deer and only lost one! No matter what caliber they were shooting, yes I'm very proud! Again, you don't know the circumstances!

I felt obligated to post on this subject for any one considering .223 to feel confident in their choice! If in the hands of two immature hunters can shoot that many deer and kill them, just think how many an experienced hunter like yourself could kill! Thanks for helping me to clear my point, didn't know that was how people read it.