6.5 Creed 260 Rem.

[Jcalder]

No, I haven't. Have you ever been to a sales and/or marketing meeting?
Ford will tell you why their car is better than Chevy. Chevy will tell you why theirs is better than Ford, etc.
At the end of the day...it doesn't matter. All will get you to work and back (have my doubts about the ford though.. ). Only people who use that vehicle at the extreme edge of it's capacity will notice any difference.
As a hunter in East TN (you just seen yesterday what I hunt in), do you really think any perceived/actual differences will matter?
Maybe out west, but definitely not here.
I would venture to guess that 95+ percent of all hunters have no business shooting at an animal at a distance that any difference would be noticed.
Now target shooters... different story. But this is a hunting forum, so....

That said...if I was hunting out west where long range shooting was the norm...and wanted to stay with 6.5....it would be with something bigger, like a 264 win mag.

It wasn't designed for the casual hunter, it wasn't even designed as a hunting cartridge lol. You are missing the point on its design, and until you listen to the podcast you're not gonna get it. Everyone's claim is it does nothing the 260 won't, and that's addressed. And no, it's not just marketing.

 

[Tenntrapper]

I guess it's interesting? It is interesting I can get the same speed with less powder.


44grs imr4831 and a 140 gets 2680 from my 22" 260 Remington

43grs h4350 gets me 2690fps


41.5grs h4350 gets 2680 from my 22" ruger 6.5cm


I'll call that a wash.


I'm also no 6.5cm super fan. It's a great cartridge that does a lot of good things easily. For some reason that's frowned upon, lol.

No, not frowning on it...just pointing out that, depending on what you intend to do, not much difference.

Another car reference...for your observation...

A Prius will go down the interstate at 60mph..and use less fuel than a f250 doing 60 mph. Does that make the Prius a better vehicle? If you're trying to save gas it does.
A better example...the same vehicle with 2 different engine options. One gets better mpg, the other goes faster. With the vehicle in this case being a 140g bullet...what difference does it make?

 

[Tenntrapper]

It wasn't designed for the casual hunter, it wasn't even designed as a hunting cartridge lol. You are missing the point on its design, and until you listen to the podcast you're not gonna get it. Everyone's claim is it does nothing the 260 won't, and that's addressed. And no, it's not just marketing.

I do understand the design, or rather, what it was designed for....I get it. And I'm sure it does good in that roll. It also does well as a hunting round...but in that arena, there is nothing special about it. And it was my assumption that is what we are talking about.
You know I don't shoot long distance...just not my thing. I've never even been to a match.. participant or spectator....I don't care about it. Again...not my thing.
My argument is, and always has been, as it pertains to hunting.

 

[Remi]

No, not frowning on it...just pointing out that, depending on what you intend to do, not much difference.

Another car reference...for your observation...

A Prius will go down the interstate at 60mph..and use less fuel than a f250 doing 60 mph. Does that make the Prius a better vehicle? If you're trying to save gas it does.
A better example...the same vehicle with 2 different engine options. One gets better mpg, the other goes faster. With the vehicle in this case being a 140g bullet...what difference does it make?

So now you're saying they're pretty much the same and everyone else is saying they're pretty much the same but you're more correct?



No one has said they perform markedly different, they've simply said one is an easy way to get the same performance for people that don't reload.

So it's actually not what you intend to do: velocity is equal, bullet weight is equal, so they're equal except the fact that one fits into short actions better, one is available in factory ammo everywhere and is available by every major rifle manufacturer.


The performance is the same, the easiest way to achieve that performance is one sided.

 

[TNRifleman]

You guys that keep displaying the cm should really listen to the guys that designed it and the reasons it was built. They discuss it in great detail. To get the full potential of the creed you need to load 140s and heavier. Kinda becomes the perfect storm.

I shoot 147's out of most of mine and they seem to do really well.

 

[Tenntrapper]

So now you're saying they're pretty much the same and everyone else is saying they're pretty much the same but you're more correct?



No one has said they perform markedly different, they've simply said one is an easy way to get the same performance for people that don't reload.

So it's actually not what you intend to do: velocity is equal, bullet eight is equal, so they're equal except the fact that one fits into short actions better, one is available in factory ammo everywhere and is available by every major rifle manufacturer.


The performance is the same, the easiest way to achieve that performance is one sided.

No!! I'm saying that for what I assume we are talking about...the performance would be the same...or close enough to not really matter.
As far as ammo, firearm availability...that's a design of marketing. Hornady succeeded to do what Remington failed at. As a result, the CM caught on...and everyone just has to have one. I can't say enough...I don't have anything against it. But to me...just nothing special about it. And another thing....ammo availability. That gets brought up a lot. I don't disagree that it is far more plentiful than the 260 or swede...but that doesn't make it a better cartridge. If that was the case... during covid, all I was ever seeing was 350 legend and 308 win. Does that automatically make them better? Better at what?
The CM with it's wide selection of firearms and ammo availability make it a great choice...never disputed that. From the aspect of sending a 140 class 264 bullet down range... there are better performing options...even if only by a few fps.
And I'm sorry....I just don't buy it that the same bullet, going 100fps faster, out of a properly tuned load, will perform worse than a slower one., especially when shooting paper at extended ranges.
Did Hornady come up with something that will put a target capable round into the hands of the masses... absolutely. Never disputed that. But THAT is marketing.

 

[DaveTN]

What does the 6.5 Creedmoor do that the 260 Rem. can't?

If you already own the 260 Rem and you shoot under 500 yards, nothing more than delete the thickness of your wallet, or increase your charge card balance.

If you don't already have the 260, the 6.5CM is probably going to push ammo availability of the .260 down. The 6.5CM bunch has done an exceptional job of marketing.

 

[Tenntrapper]

Let me clarify something...
If I was wanting to buy a new rifle(maybe a first rifle) in 6.5, because of the available ammo/firearm options, and was not a reloader....the CM would likely be a first choice. Would I trade in my 260, Swede, or x284 for one(and I do reload) absolutely not...no reason to.

 

[Jcalder]

I shoot 147's out of most of mine and they seem to do really well.

Those 147s would surprise people how they carry at distance. I'd have no issue using them.

 

[Jcalder]

No!! I'm saying that for what I assume we are talking about...the performance would be the same...or close enough to not really matter.
As far as ammo, firearm availability...that's a design of marketing. Hornady succeeded to do what Remington failed at. As a result, the CM caught on...and everyone just has to have one. I can't say enough...I don't have anything against it. But to me...just nothing special about it. And another thing....ammo availability. That gets brought up a lot. I don't disagree that it is far more plentiful than the 260 or swede...but that doesn't make it a better cartridge. If that was the case... during covid, all I was ever seeing was 350 legend and 308 win. Does that automatically make them better? Better at what?
The CM with it's wide selection of firearms and ammo availability make it a great choice...never disputed that. From the aspect of sending a 140 class 264 bullet down range... there are better performing options...even if only by a few fps.
And I'm sorry....I just don't buy it that the same bullet, going 100fps faster, out of a properly tuned load, will perform worse than a slower one., especially when shooting paper at extended ranges.
Did Hornady come up with something that will put a target capable round into the hands of the masses... absolutely. Never disputed that. But THAT is marketing.

What makes a 30-06, 270, 280, 6.5-06, 25-06 better than the next? What makes a 243, 7-08, 260, 308 and better than the next? If you actually understood why the cm was created in the first place it would start to make sense. What made the 30tc basically a failure? But it's the parent case of the cm. Most people couldn't tell you why it's even named a creedmoor. They can't even spell it right lol. You call it marketing because you don't wanna take the time and understand the intended purpose. Had it not been for a specific shooters needs, we'd most likely never have heard of it. No one claims it'll make you a sniper. No one claims it's leaps and bounds better than anything else. Had high bc bullets not became as popular as they are none of it would matter. As I stated before, inside 500 yards, and could probably stretch that to 600, there's not a nickels difference in any of them I mentioned.

 

[DaveTN]

I suspect most new hunters will get whatever their friends or relatives are using have. In my family that would be King of the Bolts, .308 Winchester, in some families that would be the 30-06, 6.5 CM, 260 or a whole host of other possibilities, and in other families it would be a Lever Action in 30-30.

Once they figure out which end of the barrel the bullet comes out, most young people today will use the internet to search for answers. It will be overwhelming for them. So I help them out and tell them to just get a .308 Winchester. Once they get things figured out, they can decide if they want to stick with it or get a designer round.

 

[backyardtndeer]

Interesting.... considering that looking at this data...and 140s, all but one powder in the 260 beats the CM. And both are loaded to mag length...
View attachment 204835View attachment 204836

I load mine with imr4350, max loads. With the rifle I am currently hunting with, has a ballistic advantage 20 inch stainless barrel, gives me great accuracy with the 143 grain eldx. I have a second 6.5 that I also built that I have a Wilson combat barrel on, and those loads are not as accurate in it, I still need to do some tweaking for that one.

 

[Remi]

No!! I'm saying that for what I assume we are talking about...the performance would be the same...or close enough to not really matter.
As far as ammo, firearm availability...that's a design of marketing. Hornady succeeded to do what Remington failed at. As a result, the CM caught on...and everyone just has to have one. I can't say enough...I don't have anything against it. But to me...just nothing special about it. And another thing....ammo availability. That gets brought up a lot. I don't disagree that it is far more plentiful than the 260 or swede...but that doesn't make it a better cartridge. If that was the case... during covid, all I was ever seeing was 350 legend and 308 win. Does that automatically make them better? Better at what?
The CM with it's wide selection of firearms and ammo availability make it a great choice...never disputed that. From the aspect of sending a 140 class 264 bullet down range... there are better performing options...even if only by a few fps.
And I'm sorry....I just don't buy it that the same bullet, going 100fps faster, out of a properly tuned load, will perform worse than a slower one., especially when shooting paper at extended ranges.
Did Hornady come up with something that will put a target capable round into the hands of the masses... absolutely. Never disputed that. But THAT is marketing.

No one ever said it will perform worse, lol. Absolutely no one.

Literally everyone has said performance is the same including you until you change your mind and decide the 260 is better, lol.


Ok, if you can squeeze 100fps more out of a 260 it has 100lbs more energy, drops 4" less and drifts 1" less at 500yds.


Those numbers are overwhelming better, you win.


Cant compare bullet to bullet with 140's at at Hodgdon.com but

260 Rem with a 140 partition @ 2755fps via 7828
6.5cm with a 140 amax @ 2806fps via 6.5 staball



Hodgdon 260 data with the 147 eldm vs 6.5cm data


260 shows 2718fps
6.5cm shows 2746fps


Per Hodgdon the 6.5cm out runs the 260 with the with the 153 a tip as well.

Know what kind of visible performance difference that amounts to? None, lol

 

[mr.big]

Just about all the newer 260s and 243s for that matter have 8 twists for the heavier bullets.
Myself I like the 6.5x47 Lapua round better than either but it's pretty much a hand load only round.

 

[hunter0925]

Just about all the newer 260s and 243s for that matter have 8 twists for the heavier bullets.
Myself I like the 6.5x47 Lapua round better than either but it's pretty much a hand load only round.

And this is why I'm waiting on my x47 to get finished at SPR now.

 

[ROVERBOY]

I personally would prefer the .260 over the 6.5 Creed. I like cartridges on the .308 case. And as far as ammo goes, I'm m a handloader.

 

[redblood]

If you reload...not very much difference. The 260 is just a shade faster...but really not enough to even mention.
If you don't reload....ammo availability for the CM wins hands down.
I'll also say....the 130+ yr old 6.5x55 will beat them both....if you reload. And it will handle the 160s better than either one.

your right, but you cant fit into a short action....which is the kiss of death. not much interests in longs actions anymore