6.5 Creed 260 Rem.

[trex]

What does the 6.5 Creedmoor do that the 260 Rem. can't?
Is ammo normally found on the shelf beside rounds like the 30-30 Win, 270, 30 06, 308 etc.?

 

[Jcalder]

Listen to the Hornady podcast about its design.

 

[knightrider]

What does the 6.5 Creedmoor do that the 260 Rem. can't?
Is ammo normally found on the shelf beside rounds like the 30-30 Win, 270, 30 06, 308 etc.?

6.5 ammo is everywhere 260 not so much

 

[Remi]

Excellent factory ammo available everywhere


Barrels twisted correctly for pretty much any 6.5 bullet you want to shoot


The ability to easily fit long bullets without eating powder space to fit in a short action


Every 6.5cm I've shot has been super accurate, probably 15-18 different rifles.


I've been shooting a .260 since 1997, I like the 6.5cm as well.

 

[recurve60#]

What does the 6.5 Creedmoor do that the 260 Rem. can't?
Is ammo normally found on the shelf beside rounds like the 30-30 Win, 270, 30 06, 308 etc.?

Nothing. Creedemore just won with a catchy name.

 

[Tenntrapper]

If you reload...not very much difference. The 260 is just a shade faster...but really not enough to even mention.
If you don't reload....ammo availability for the CM wins hands down.
I'll also say....the 130+ yr old 6.5x55 will beat them both....if you reload. And it will handle the 160s better than either one.

 

[Lost Lake]

Nothing until you hit extended ranges. They're virtually identical until then. The .260 will handle most 140 grain bullets just fine. That's a pretty heavy and long for caliber bullet with a great S.D. But that doesn't get mentioned because the Creed will handle bullets as long as a torpedo.

If I wasn't shooting past 350 yards or so, I'd pick the .260 every time. But that's just me. But heck I just love the 260, and honestly I'd be happy with either one.

 

[Tenntrapper]

Nothing until you hit extended ranges. They're virtually identical until then. The .260 will handle most 140 grain bullets just fine. That's a pretty heavy and long for caliber bullet with a great S.D. But that doesn't get mentioned because the Creed will handle bullets as long as a torpedo.

If I wasn't shooting past 350 yards or so, I'd pick the .260 every time. But that's just me. But heck I just love the 260, and honestly I'd be happy with either one.

I'm lost on this comment. Since when does anyone shoot anything over a 140 in a CM?
Mag length limits both ...and the 260 has slightly higher case capacity (very slightly).
I'm not disputing the comment...just trying to clarify. If referring to available twist rate...yeah, Rem dropped the ball, but that doesn't mean a faster twist 260 isn't available.
Again...just trying to clarify.

I've loaded for all 3...,the CM, 260, and the Swede. Aside from ammo availability, and the Swede being an intermediate length action..the Swede is the performance winner.
Hornady didn't reinvent the wheel with the CM...they just made more tires available for it.
A reloader can make it a wash.

 

[Lost Lake]

I'm lost on this comment. Since when does anyone shoot anything over a 140 in a CM?
Mag length limits both ...and the 260 has slightly higher case capacity (very slightly).
I'm not disputing the comment...just trying to clarify. If referring to available twist rate...yeah, Rem dropped the ball, but that doesn't mean a faster twist 260 isn't available.
Again...just trying to clarify.

I've loaded for all 3...,the CM, 260, and the Swede. Aside from ammo availability, and the Swede being an intermediate length action..the Swede is the performance winner.
Hornady didn't reinvent the wheel with the CM...they just made more tires available for it.
A reloader can make it a wash.

My point was this.

A lot of focus has been thrown on the creed being twisted faster for long bullets, and all along the 260 is twisted just fine for bullets for deer in the 120-130 grain range. Those are plenty long for caliber bullets in .264.

The 260 just gets bad mouthed in long range discussions compared to the 6.5 creed because it isn't twisted as fast.

I just find it funny that a lot of eastern deer hunters quibble over that when if they're like me, they probably won't shoot over 200 yards at a deer in their lives.

That was my point.

 

[Jcalder]

You guys that keep displaying the cm should really listen to the guys that designed it and the reasons it was built. They discuss it in great detail. To get the full potential of the creed you need to load 140s and heavier. Kinda becomes the perfect storm.

 

[Tenntrapper]

My point was this.

A lot of focus has been thrown on the creed being twisted faster for long bullets, and all along the 260 is twisted just fine for bullets for deer in the 120-130 grain range. Those are plenty long for caliber bullets in .264.

The 260 just gets bad mouthed in long range discussions compared to the 6.5 creed because it isn't twisted as fast.

I just find it funny that a lot of eastern deer hunters quibble over that when if they're like me, they probably won't shoot over 200 yards at a deer in their lives.

That was my point.

Agree completely with that statement. Will also add...the 6.5(264) got its reputation for performance (penetration) based on 156-160g class bullets. The CM and 260 both really fall on their face with that weight. They will work, but it's not ideal.
That said...I shot 140s in my 260, stabilization was never an issue. Granted, I wasn't trying to poke holes over about 250...so I can't comment on that.

 

[Tenntrapper]

You guys that keep displaying the cm should really listen to the guys that designed it and the reasons it was built. They discuss it in great detail. To get the full potential of the creed you need to load 140s and heavier. Kinda becomes the perfect storm.

I'm not dissing the CM...I've owned 3 of them.
It's a good round...with great marketing behind it. It just won't do anything the others can't do.
Of the people defending the CM...how many have owned/loaded for the 260 and Swede?
I'll bet not many.
The CM has a lot going for it...but to me, there just isn't anything special about it.... except ammo availability.

 

[Tenntrapper]

Now I'm wanting another Swede....

 

[Jcalder]

I'm not dissing the CM...I've owned 3 of them.
It's a good round...with great marketing behind it. It just won't do anything the others can't do.
Of the people defending the CM...how many have owned/loaded for the 260 and Swede?
I'll bet not many.
The CM has a lot going for it...but to me, there just isn't anything special about it.... except ammo availability.

Listen to the podcast. The whole premise behind the cm was a cartridge to shoot high bc bullets, with low recoil that'll allow you to stay on target, that'll fit in a short action. The case of a 260 is a bit too long to take advantage of the high bc bullets of today, and the swede won't fit in a short action. No one is saying it's the miracle cartridge. Inside of 500 yards just about every high power cartridge is neck and neck. Once you get past that distance things open up. No, for the common guy the cm isn't gonna do anything special. At distance it'll do a lot. And no, I don't own one and it's not on my radar.

 

[Remi]

I'm sitting here with my 260 Rem and 129gr Hornady PSP's.




I've loaded for the 260 and 6.5


If mag length is 2.8 the 260 case capacity with long 140gr boat tails goes away because the bullet sits deeper in the case. If not limited by mag length the 260 has a velocity advantage.


If you are a reloader not limited by mag length things become a wash. If you are shooting factory ammo that changes things. I think 90% of hunters shoot factory ammo.


My 6.5cm is a Tikka CTR with tons of mag room. All I do with it is shoot targets for fun. If I could change anything on it I would nag is a 6cm instead of a 6.5.

 

[backyardtndeer]

I considered building a .260. Few years back there were some really good buys on dpms barrels and I could have picked up a .260 pretty cheap. I did a bit of research, and there wasn't really a lot to be gained over 6.5 cm, and some sites I looked at suggested that the .260 may have barrel life issues. Added to that, for me it would mean that I would have to add another set of dies and brass, so I just stuck with the 6.5 cm.

Since when does anyone shoot anything over a 140 in a CM?

I primarily load 143 grain eldx for the two that I own, works well for me.

 

[Tenntrapper]

I'm sitting here with my 260 Rem and 129gr Hornady PSP's.




I've loaded for the 260 and 6.5


If mag length is 2.8 the 260 case capacity with long 140gr boat tails goes away because the bullet sits deeper in the case. If not limited by mag length the 260 has a velocity advantage.


If you are a reloader not limited by mag length things become a wash. If you are shooting factory ammo that changes things. I think 90% of hunters shoot factory ammo.


My 6.5cm is a Tikka CTR with tons of mag room. All I do with it is shoot targets for fun. If I could change anything on it I would nag is a 6cm instead of a 6.5.

Interesting.... considering that looking at this data...and 140s, all but one powder in the 260 beats the CM. And both are loaded to mag length...

 

[Jcalder]

Interesting.... considering that looking at this data...and 140s, all but one powder in the 260 beats the CM. And both are loaded to mag length...
View attachment 204835View attachment 204836

Have you listened to the podcast yet. It'll answer any question you've got

 

[Remi]

Interesting.... considering that looking at this data...and 140s, all but one powder in the 260 beats the CM. And both are loaded to mag length...
View attachment 204835View attachment 204836

I guess it's interesting? It is interesting I can get the same speed with less powder.


44grs imr4831 and a 140 gets 2680 from my 22" 260 Remington

43grs h4350 gets me 2690fps


41.5grs h4350 gets 2680 from my 22" ruger 6.5cm

44.5grs of h414 and a 120 is 2987fps my 260

44grs h4350 and a 123 is 2965fps in my 6.5vm


I'll call that a wash. They're the same


I'm also no 6.5cm super fan. It's a great cartridge that does a lot of good things easily. For some reason that's frowned upon, lol.

 

[Tenntrapper]

Have you listened to the podcast yet. It'll answer any question you've got

No, I haven't. Have you ever been to a sales and/or marketing meeting?
Ford will tell you why their car is better than Chevy. Chevy will tell you why theirs is better than Ford, etc.
At the end of the day...it doesn't matter. All will get you to work and back (have my doubts about the ford though.. ). Only people who use that vehicle at the extreme edge of it's capacity will notice any difference.
As a hunter in East TN (you just seen yesterday what I hunt in), do you really think any perceived/actual differences will matter?
Maybe out west, but definitely not here.
I would venture to guess that 95+ percent of all hunters have no business shooting at an animal at a distance that any difference would be noticed.
Now target shooters... different story. But this is a hunting forum, so....

That said...if I was hunting out west where long range shooting was the norm...and wanted to stay with 6.5....it would be with something bigger, like a 264 win mag.

 

[Jcalder]

No, I haven't. Have you ever been to a sales and/or marketing meeting?
Ford will tell you why their car is better than Chevy. Chevy will tell you why theirs is better than Ford, etc.
At the end of the day...it doesn't matter. All will get you to work and back (have my doubts about the ford though.. ). Only people who use that vehicle at the extreme edge of it's capacity will notice any difference.
As a hunter in East TN (you just seen yesterday what I hunt in), do you really think any perceived/actual differences will matter?
Maybe out west, but definitely not here.
I would venture to guess that 95+ percent of all hunters have no business shooting at an animal at a distance that any difference would be noticed.
Now target shooters... different story. But this is a hunting forum, so....

That said...if I was hunting out west where long range shooting was the norm...and wanted to stay with 6.5....it would be with something bigger, like a 264 win mag.

It wasn't designed for the casual hunter, it wasn't even designed as a hunting cartridge lol. You are missing the point on its design, and until you listen to the podcast you're not gonna get it. Everyone's claim is it does nothing the 260 won't, and that's addressed. And no, it's not just marketing.

 

[Tenntrapper]

I guess it's interesting? It is interesting I can get the same speed with less powder.


44grs imr4831 and a 140 gets 2680 from my 22" 260 Remington

43grs h4350 gets me 2690fps


41.5grs h4350 gets 2680 from my 22" ruger 6.5cm


I'll call that a wash.


I'm also no 6.5cm super fan. It's a great cartridge that does a lot of good things easily. For some reason that's frowned upon, lol.

No, not frowning on it...just pointing out that, depending on what you intend to do, not much difference.

Another car reference...for your observation...

A Prius will go down the interstate at 60mph..and use less fuel than a f250 doing 60 mph. Does that make the Prius a better vehicle? If you're trying to save gas it does.
A better example...the same vehicle with 2 different engine options. One gets better mpg, the other goes faster. With the vehicle in this case being a 140g bullet...what difference does it make?

 

[Tenntrapper]

It wasn't designed for the casual hunter, it wasn't even designed as a hunting cartridge lol. You are missing the point on its design, and until you listen to the podcast you're not gonna get it. Everyone's claim is it does nothing the 260 won't, and that's addressed. And no, it's not just marketing.

I do understand the design, or rather, what it was designed for....I get it. And I'm sure it does good in that roll. It also does well as a hunting round...but in that arena, there is nothing special about it. And it was my assumption that is what we are talking about.
You know I don't shoot long distance...just not my thing. I've never even been to a match.. participant or spectator....I don't care about it. Again...not my thing.
My argument is, and always has been, as it pertains to hunting.

 

[Remi]

No, not frowning on it...just pointing out that, depending on what you intend to do, not much difference.

Another car reference...for your observation...

A Prius will go down the interstate at 60mph..and use less fuel than a f250 doing 60 mph. Does that make the Prius a better vehicle? If you're trying to save gas it does.
A better example...the same vehicle with 2 different engine options. One gets better mpg, the other goes faster. With the vehicle in this case being a 140g bullet...what difference does it make?

So now you're saying they're pretty much the same and everyone else is saying they're pretty much the same but you're more correct?



No one has said they perform markedly different, they've simply said one is an easy way to get the same performance for people that don't reload.

So it's actually not what you intend to do: velocity is equal, bullet weight is equal, so they're equal except the fact that one fits into short actions better, one is available in factory ammo everywhere and is available by every major rifle manufacturer.


The performance is the same, the easiest way to achieve that performance is one sided.

 

[TNRifleman]

You guys that keep displaying the cm should really listen to the guys that designed it and the reasons it was built. They discuss it in great detail. To get the full potential of the creed you need to load 140s and heavier. Kinda becomes the perfect storm.

I shoot 147's out of most of mine and they seem to do really well.

 

[Tenntrapper]

So now you're saying they're pretty much the same and everyone else is saying they're pretty much the same but you're more correct?



No one has said they perform markedly different, they've simply said one is an easy way to get the same performance for people that don't reload.

So it's actually not what you intend to do: velocity is equal, bullet eight is equal, so they're equal except the fact that one fits into short actions better, one is available in factory ammo everywhere and is available by every major rifle manufacturer.


The performance is the same, the easiest way to achieve that performance is one sided.

No!! I'm saying that for what I assume we are talking about...the performance would be the same...or close enough to not really matter.
As far as ammo, firearm availability...that's a design of marketing. Hornady succeeded to do what Remington failed at. As a result, the CM caught on...and everyone just has to have one. I can't say enough...I don't have anything against it. But to me...just nothing special about it. And another thing....ammo availability. That gets brought up a lot. I don't disagree that it is far more plentiful than the 260 or swede...but that doesn't make it a better cartridge. If that was the case... during covid, all I was ever seeing was 350 legend and 308 win. Does that automatically make them better? Better at what?
The CM with it's wide selection of firearms and ammo availability make it a great choice...never disputed that. From the aspect of sending a 140 class 264 bullet down range... there are better performing options...even if only by a few fps.
And I'm sorry....I just don't buy it that the same bullet, going 100fps faster, out of a properly tuned load, will perform worse than a slower one., especially when shooting paper at extended ranges.
Did Hornady come up with something that will put a target capable round into the hands of the masses... absolutely. Never disputed that. But THAT is marketing.

 

[DaveTN]

What does the 6.5 Creedmoor do that the 260 Rem. can't?

If you already own the 260 Rem and you shoot under 500 yards, nothing more than delete the thickness of your wallet, or increase your charge card balance.

If you don't already have the 260, the 6.5CM is probably going to push ammo availability of the .260 down. The 6.5CM bunch has done an exceptional job of marketing.

 

[Tenntrapper]

Let me clarify something...
If I was wanting to buy a new rifle(maybe a first rifle) in 6.5, because of the available ammo/firearm options, and was not a reloader....the CM would likely be a first choice. Would I trade in my 260, Swede, or x284 for one(and I do reload) absolutely not...no reason to.

 

[Jcalder]

I shoot 147's out of most of mine and they seem to do really well.

Those 147s would surprise people how they carry at distance. I'd have no issue using them.

 

[Jcalder]

No!! I'm saying that for what I assume we are talking about...the performance would be the same...or close enough to not really matter.
As far as ammo, firearm availability...that's a design of marketing. Hornady succeeded to do what Remington failed at. As a result, the CM caught on...and everyone just has to have one. I can't say enough...I don't have anything against it. But to me...just nothing special about it. And another thing....ammo availability. That gets brought up a lot. I don't disagree that it is far more plentiful than the 260 or swede...but that doesn't make it a better cartridge. If that was the case... during covid, all I was ever seeing was 350 legend and 308 win. Does that automatically make them better? Better at what?
The CM with it's wide selection of firearms and ammo availability make it a great choice...never disputed that. From the aspect of sending a 140 class 264 bullet down range... there are better performing options...even if only by a few fps.
And I'm sorry....I just don't buy it that the same bullet, going 100fps faster, out of a properly tuned load, will perform worse than a slower one., especially when shooting paper at extended ranges.
Did Hornady come up with something that will put a target capable round into the hands of the masses... absolutely. Never disputed that. But THAT is marketing.

What makes a 30-06, 270, 280, 6.5-06, 25-06 better than the next? What makes a 243, 7-08, 260, 308 and better than the next? If you actually understood why the cm was created in the first place it would start to make sense. What made the 30tc basically a failure? But it's the parent case of the cm. Most people couldn't tell you why it's even named a creedmoor. They can't even spell it right lol. You call it marketing because you don't wanna take the time and understand the intended purpose. Had it not been for a specific shooters needs, we'd most likely never have heard of it. No one claims it'll make you a sniper. No one claims it's leaps and bounds better than anything else. Had high bc bullets not became as popular as they are none of it would matter. As I stated before, inside 500 yards, and could probably stretch that to 600, there's not a nickels difference in any of them I mentioned.