Food Plots YouTube video food plot "systems"

[BSK]

I'm not so sure. That's not been my experience at all. While it probably does happen to some degree, I don't think it's anything severe enough to even notice. On a huge open crop field it takes years & years & years to realize soil degradation & erosion from tilling. And that's with removing/harvesting matter at least once per year. I'm just not convinced it's an issue with comparably tiny food plots inside a forest where nothing is ever removed. I suppose there are some scenarios where it could be a thing, but I've not experienced it.

Although I try to only build my plots on flat sections of ridge-line, I still see some erosion channel, and top-soil washed to the outer edges. And wind loss? Good gracious the clouds of dust that blow off my freshly turned plots, especially if I'm forced to turn the ground in dry weather. Of course, part of that is because I use a rotary tiller instead of a disk. The disk just breaks the surface into larger clumps. The tiller pulverizes the soil to absolutely taclum powder. Very easily eroded.

 

[BSK]

I'm just going to keep experimenting. Maybe tilling deep only once every couple of years for water absorption. Tilling shallow only once a year (or less). I also may switch from covering seed with a chain harrow (which tends to bury small seed too deep) to just using the pressure of a cultipacker.

In the past, I have had VERY poor results getting large-seeded plants, like beans or peas, to germinate on the surface of the ground (when using no-till methods). But perhaps running a cultipacker over those non-tilled plots will help with that.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Sounds like you need to in the spring time, spray your fall crop once it's tall (but before going to seed), broadcast buckwheat into said standing fall crop, then cultipack. Come fall, broadcast your fall seed into the buckwheat, then spray and cultipack at the same time if possible.

Not a big fan of Jeff Sturgis, but he does this and would probably be applicable to you

 

[BSK]

Sounds like you need to in the spring time, spray your fall crop once it's tall (but before going to seed), broadcast buckwheat into said standing fall crop, then cultipack. Come fall, broadcast your fall seed into the buckwheat, then spray and cultipack at the same time if possible.

Not a big fan of Jeff Sturgis, but he does this and would probably be applicable to you

Only problem with this system is soil moisture in summer. If the ground is never turned, nothing soaks in. Most of our summer rains are convective, which means torrential rain for short periods of time. This will soak the overlying thatch but not make it deep into the soil. In those situations, 3 weeks without rain and plants growing in just the thatch will die. Back when I tried this system many times, I would say 50% of years they were failures, because one brief drought and plants with very shallow roots couldn't make it through. At some point I have to break the ground deep. I just don't know what the magic number is for years/seasons between breaking the ground to allow soil moisture absorption in summer.

 

[Ski]

In the past, I have had VERY poor results getting large-seeded plants, like beans or peas, to germinate on the surface of the ground (when using no-till methods).

That is exactly the problem I have. If the ground isn't broken up, rain just washes away and seed struggles to dig. I've not found any non-mechanical method yet that fixes it. The "buffalo" theory sure sounds great but it hasn't proven effective in my plots.

Sounds like you need to in the spring time, spray your fall crop once it's tall (but before going to seed), broadcast buckwheat into said standing fall crop, then cultipack. Come fall, broadcast your fall seed into the buckwheat, then spray and cultipack at the same time if possible.

Not a big fan of Jeff Sturgis, but he does this and would probably be applicable to you

That guy flip flops like a politician. How he uses buckwheat is how he used to use rye. He'd preach it as if it was be all end all gospel. Now he knocks that old method and touts the buckwheat. He does share some genuinely helpful ideas from time to time and I like the way he focuses on making a comprehensive, cohesive plan for habitat rather than just adding random features in a mottled mess. Beyond that he'd be a gifted infomercial salesman and hearing him talk about his awesomeness is like cleaning out my ears with coarse sandpaper. But I still watch his videos because every once in awhile there's a nugget lol.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

That guy flip flops like a politician. How he uses buckwheat is how he used to use rye. He'd preach it as if it was be all end all gospel. Now he knocks that old method and touts the buckwheat. He does share some genuinely helpful ideas from time to time and I like the way he focuses on making a comprehensive, cohesive plan for habitat rather than just adding random features in a mottled mess. Beyond that he'd be a gifted infomercial salesman and hearing him talk about his awesomeness is like cleaning out my ears with coarse sandpaper. But I still watch his videos because every once in awhile there's a nugget lol.

completely agree. My highlighted portions are the only reason I watch him. He constantly talks about how many years he's been doing this or that. "I wrote a book on this back in the late 90's / early 2000's…." . He also likes to knock on others. If you watch all types of methods to improve habitat from alot of different folks, you know exactly who he's talking about. I just shake my head

 

[Ski]

Only problem with this system is soil moisture in summer. If the ground is never turned, nothing soaks in. Most of our summer rains are convective, which means torrential rain for short periods of time. This will soak the overlying thatch but not make it deep into the soil. In those situations, 3 weeks without rain and plants growing in just the thatch will die. Back when I tried this system many times, I would say 50% of years they were failures, because one brief drought and plants with very shallow roots couldn't make it through. At some point I have to break the ground deep. I just don't know what the magic number is for years/seasons between breaking the ground to allow soil moisture absorption in summer.

I think it really depends on what you're planting. Clover seems pretty tolerant and easy especially once it's established, and it drops so many seeds that the soil always has some ready to sprout up. Brassica varieties also sprout well with minimal work. But bigger annual seeds I think need broken ground or else you're wasting money & time even trying. If you can't drill them so soil moisture can push them out to the sun, then you've got to loosen the surface enough that they can dig down to reach the moisture. I don't think 6"-8" tillage is necessary. Even drilled seed is only an inch deep. I'm working on a machine to pulverize the surface without digging deep. It's going to be a drum with railroad spikes protruding about an inch, spinning opposite the direction it's being pulled. The hope is that it'll bust up everything from dirt to sticks & smaller rocks to leave a pulverized surface to broadcast seed onto. No idea if it'll work as hoped or not but I've seen similar machines used on golf courses to smooth out fairways & greens, only this will pull behind an ATV.

 

[Ski]

completely agree. My highlighted portions are the only reason I watch him. He constantly talks about how many years he's been doing this or that. "I wrote a book on this back in the late 90's / early 2000's…." . He also likes to knock on others. If you watch all types of methods to improve habitat from alot of different folks, you know exactly who he's talking about. I just shake my head

Yep that's the guy! If you were on a boat with him that capsized, he's totally the guy who would push you under to drown so he could use your body as a float until rescue came, then give credit of his survival to his impeccable swimming skills. Otherwise I'm sure he's a wonderful guy

 

[BSK]

That guy flip flops like a politician. How he uses buckwheat is how he used to use rye. He'd preach it as if it was be all end all gospel. Now he knocks that old method and touts the buckwheat.

Not to name names, but there was a particular gentleman I was acquainted with (who owned part of a food plot seed company) who used to laugh at my fall food plot mixture. It had "nothing special in it at all!" he would lament. Years later, he started selling a fall mixture that just happened to be... wait for it... my exact mixture!

 

[BSK]

Yep that's the guy! If you were on a boat with him that capsized, he's totally the guy who would push you under to drown so he could use your body as a float until rescue came, then give credit of his survival to his impeccable swimming skills. Otherwise I'm sure he's a wonderful guy

Too funny!

 

[BSK]

I think it really depends on what you're planting. Clover seems pretty tolerant and easy especially once it's established, and it drops so many seeds that the soil always has some ready to sprout up. Brassica varieties also sprout well with minimal work. But bigger annual seeds I think need broken ground or else you're wasting money & time even trying. If you can't drill them so soil moisture can push them out to the sun, then you've got to loosen the surface enough that they can dig down to reach the moisture. I don't think 6"-8" tillage is necessary. Even drilled seed is only an inch deep. I'm working on a machine to pulverize the surface without digging deep. It's going to be a drum with railroad spikes protruding about an inch, spinning opposite the direction it's being pulled. The hope is that it'll bust up everything from dirt to sticks & smaller rocks to leave a pulverized surface to broadcast seed onto. No idea if it'll work as hoped or not but I've seen similar machines used on golf courses to smooth out fairways & greens, only this will pull behind an ATV.

You may be right. 6-8" may be too deep.

I'm trying to grow beans/peas in summer, but my fall plantings will grow in this throw-and-mow planting technique (buckwheat, winter peas, wheat, crimson clover) although germination rate is poor for the winter peas. Perhaps using the cultipacker will help with that.

We shall see what comes of the beans, buckwheat, Lab Lab and millet I broadcast and mowed growth onto the other day. Experiment, experiment and experiment some more...

Other than the crazy cost of a drill, I think the drill would have a real problem with the rock in my soil. Below is a picture of one of my plots with the least rock. Still very rocky. Most is fist-sized, but some softball, cantaloupe and even watermelon-sized rocks too.

 

[Ski]

Not to name names, but there was a particular gentleman I was acquainted with (who owned part of a food plot seed company) who used to laugh at my fall food plot mixture. It had "nothing special in it at all!" he would lament. Years later, he started selling a fall mixture that just happened to be... wait for it... my exact mixture!

That's about par for the course lol. The youtube guys are all about the same way. Watch a little bit of it and soon you'll see a pattern. They all tout the same BS at the same time, poking underhanded jabs at one another as they all take credit for the genius ideas. I love deer hunting and habitat work so naturally I consume related media. But man it gets deep sometimes!

 

[BSK]

That's about par for the course lol. The youtube guys are all about the same way. Watch a little bit of it and soon you'll see a pattern. They all tout the same BS at the same time, poking underhanded jabs at one another as they all take credit for the genius ideas. I love deer hunting and habitat work so naturally I consume related media. But man it gets deep sometimes!

Forgot the guy's name, but I watched a couple of his food plot videos. In one that was a year old he was going on and on about how buckwheat was the perfect crop, and everyone should be planting pure stands of buckwheat for summer. In his latest video he was talking about what a bad choice buckwheat was for summer, and he was recommending a new mixture, which of course he was selling! Dude, get your message straight!

 

[Ski]

I'm trying to grow beans/peas in summer, but my fall plantings will grow in this throw-and-mow planting technique (buckwheat, winter peas, wheat, crimson clover) although germination rate is poor for the winter peas. Perhaps using the cultipacker will help with that.

I've had mixed results with peas. I promise you when they do well, there's nothing that draws deer better. They flock to winter peas in the fall months like they do soybeans in summer. Problem is getting them to do well. And plant enough to withstand the pressure because the deer will eat them to the ground. I think you're on the right track with a cultipacker, especially if the ground is soft enough that the peas can be pushed "in", not just on.

Other than the crazy cost of a drill, I think the drill would have a real problem with the rock in my soil. Below is a picture of one of my plots with the least rock. Still very rocky.

Oh for sure a drill is not suited for big woods food plots. Just not its lane. One of my plots has an outcrop of solid rock about the size of three cars. A drill would inevitably get destroyed.

 

[BSK]

I just love the videos (and entire books) on how you can manage the habitat so the buck you are after beds right there (an exact spot) and walks past your stand right there, in feeds in this exact spot in the food plot. Wow, I wish I hunted such predictable mature bucks! Heck, if I make a habitat funnel and a particular buck walks through it three times in an entire season I'm thrilled!

 

[Ski]

Forgot the guy's name, but I watched a couple of his food plot videos. In one that was a year old he was going on and on about how buckwheat was the perfect crop, and everyone should be planting pure stands of buckwheat for summer. In his latest video he was talking about what a bad choice buckwheat was for summer, and he was recommending a new mixture, which of course he was selling! Dude, get your message straight!

BINGO!!! That's the flip flopping I get so aggravated with. I'm content to see a guy try some stuff and report results. But it's different when he's preaching something as gospel and then changes his mind. Conviction of a spoken word gives context to allow the listener to know if it's something you know or just something you think maybe. But some of those guys speak nonsense with so much conviction that it can be deceiving.

 

[BSK]

I've had mixed results with peas. I promise you when they do well, there's nothing that draws deer better. They flock to winter peas in the fall months like they do soybeans in summer. Problem is getting them to do well. And plant enough to withstand the pressure because the deer will eat them to the ground. I think you're on the right track with a cultipacker, especially if the ground is soft enough that the peas can be pushed "in", not just on.

When I turn the soil and cover the seed with a chain harrow, I get phenomenal germination and growth out of winter peas. Seed just laying on the ground? Nope. And you're right, absolute candy plant for deer (in clay soils, but not sandy soils).

 

[Ski]

I just love the videos (and entire books) on how you can manage the habitat so the buck you are after beds right there (an exact spot) and walks past your stand right there, in feeds in this exact spot in the food plot. Wow, I wish I hunted such predictable mature bucks! Heck, if I make a habitat funnel and a particular buck walks through it three times in an entire season I'm thrilled!

Hahaha that's exactly right. I've hunted deer my entire life and have done the habitat stuff for many years. A buck doesn't get mature by being predictable. Being predictable is what gets him killed as a 2 or 3 year old. I try. Boy do I ever try. But once or twice per season is all I ever get a "target" buck to make an appearance. Usually he's in the area of my property for a day or a few days and if he doesn't show up in daylight or I miss my opportunity, he's generally gone for the rest of the season. These guys talk like once your property is set up that you can slip in to a stand at 4pm and kill the big guy at 5pm, anytime and every time you want. Too good to be true is too good to be true.

 

[megalomaniac]

You may be right. 6-8" may be too deep.

I'm trying to grow beans/peas in summer, but my fall plantings will grow in this throw-and-mow planting technique (buckwheat, winter peas, wheat, crimson clover) although germination rate is poor for the winter peas. Perhaps using the cultipacker will help with that.

We shall see what comes of the beans, buckwheat, Lab Lab and millet I broadcast and mowed growth onto the other day. Experiment, experiment and experiment some more...

Other than the crazy cost of a drill, I think the drill would have a real problem with the rock in my soil. Below is a picture of one of my plots with the least rock. Still very rocky. Most is fist-sized, but some softball, cantaloupe and even watermelon-sized rocks too.

That sucks... didn't realize your plots were THAT rocky. Any way you could get some plots in the valleys?

For small summer plots, I wouldn't plant anything a deer would eat... maximize your biomass and hope to improve organic matter. Sorgham/ millet will grow well, put down big roots to aerate soil, pull nutrients up from the lower soil levels to the surface, and not get eaten by the deer. Easy to terminate before fall plot planting.

A drill in those plots could be an expensive experiment.

 

[Ski]

A drill in those plots could be an expensive experiment.

It's all an expensive experiment, but yeah a drill is a whole nother level of expensive!

I've been seriously considering hauling in loads of topsoil like you'd do for a lawn when building a new house, and lightly tilling it in with existing soil. Wouldn't make financial sense in terms of agricultural scale but in tiny woods plots I think maybe it could work.