Food Plots YouTube video food plot "systems"

BSK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 1999
Messages
81,645
Location
Nashville, TN
I made the mistake of watching a few food plot videos on YouTube. Seems every Tom, Richard and Harry has a new guaranteed best food plot "system." Different seed blends (which they are selling) and different planting techniques. I'm sure each work to a certain extent, and my complaints don't mean I didn't pick up an idea or two, but my gosh so many contradictory ideas! The whole "Buffalo System" is an interesting idea, but crimping - and the very tight window for doing this effectively - is not for me. The only system I found interesting was a non-till summer planting system from the NDA (Lindsay Thomas Jr. did the video). In fact, I almost duplicated their idea this year as an experiment. The primary difference is they mowed the old plot first, then waited a week and sprayed, then broadcast the seed. I wanted better seed-to-soil contact, and mulch covering the seed, so I broadcast seed and then mowed existing growth down on top of it. I didn't spray, but may next year IF this system works at all. And if it does work at all (personally, I've had terrible results broadcasting large-seeded summer plots without turning the soil), I may run a cultipacker over the plot after seeding and mowing.
 

deerhunter10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
4,876
Location
maury county tn
I made the "mistake" of looking up somethings a few weeks ago some of the things on there doesn't even make sense. There is a lot of bad information out there nowadays
 

megalomaniac

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2005
Messages
14,896
Location
Mississippi
Everybody has a 'foolproof' food plot system... there simply isn't one that works everywhere...

But the basic tenants of improving soil health by having living desirable plants actively growing year round to decrease weed competition, improve soil aeration/ water retention, and improving topsoil are universal.

A blend is usually going to be superior to a monoculture, especially if some portions of the blend fail. You don't need 8 or 10 varieties in a blend... just 3 or 4 is adequate. Generic seed is just fine... dont need to spend high $$$ on seed blends with pictures of big bucks on the bag. Good example of my summer planting... 40lbs generic forage beans, 3lbs pearl millet, 3lbs milo, 3lbs buckwheat per acre... about $45 per acre to plant, and although my beans may not germinate due to the 2w lack of rain after planting, I should still get decent coverage with the others.

I'm about as anti-organic farming as they come... so I use herbicides to terminate plots, but still incorporate the biomass produced by bushhogging to increase topsoil.
 

BSK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 1999
Messages
81,645
Location
Nashville, TN
I made the "mistake" of looking up somethings a few weeks ago some of the things on there doesn't even make sense. There is a lot of bad information out there nowadays
Some absolutely terrible advice in some of these videos. I saw one video where the pro hunter/management expert" didn't understand even the basics of how food plots work or what they should do, but he was touting his new food plot "system" as well as the corresponding seeding mixes he was selling.
 

BSK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 1999
Messages
81,645
Location
Nashville, TN
Everybody has a 'foolproof' food plot system... there simply isn't one that works everywhere...

But the basic tenants of improving soil health by having living desirable plants actively growing year round to decrease weed competition, improve soil aeration/ water retention, and improving topsoil are universal.

A blend is usually going to be superior to a monoculture, especially if some portions of the blend fail. You don't need 8 or 10 varieties in a blend... just 3 or 4 is adequate. Generic seed is just fine... dont need to spend high $$$ on seed blends with pictures of big bucks on the bag. Good example of my summer planting... 40lbs generic forage beans, 3lbs pearl millet, 3lbs milo, 3lbs buckwheat per acre... about $45 per acre to plant, and although my beans may not germinate due to the 2w lack of rain after planting, I should still get decent coverage with the others.

I'm about as anti-organic farming as they come... so I use herbicides to terminate plots, but still incorporate the biomass produced by bushhogging to increase topsoil.
The NDA video actually had some really good info on how soil forms and how regular turning of the ground disrupts that process. But at the same time, many hunters face unique situations. Their hunting land is not conducive to growing crops, hence unique techniques will be needed. But the NDA's advice on summer and fall mixtures, as well as advice on minimally disruptive no-till techniques (without having to have a drill) were very interesting and helpful.
 

JCDEERMAN

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
17,732
Location
NASHVILLE, TN
You're right - almost everyone out there has a method that works for THEM and they are trying to sell it. I do believe a several different methods will work for most folks. Like @megalomaniac said, 3-4 different types of seeds planted is sufficient. We do 4 in the summer and 4 in the fall. I too watch some stuff I don't necessarily like, whether it be their personality or their planting ideology. However, I do tend to grab "something" from each of them, whether it's something I may want to apply at our place, or just chew on for a potential next project
 

JCDEERMAN

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
17,732
Location
NASHVILLE, TN
Saw one video where they were stressing NOT to mow down the summer plot after seeding through it for fall. The summer plot had 6-foot high growth! How in the heck is sunlight going to get down to the fall crop?
Yeah some of them are off their rockers. It all depends on what that standing crop is. Not many fall seeds will germinate through most summer crops, as summer crops are designed to prevent anything from growing, hence, a cover crop.

I can see this if drilling in spring, as the fall crop is at the end of the lifespan - it simply lays down the rye. Plus, if done at the right time, the drilling itself kills a lot of the rye. Those big seeds like soybeans have a ton of energy and can grow up through a lot of stuff, compared to a tiny weed seed. But correct, if doing traditional planting, I'd be mowing.
 

tellico4x4

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2004
Messages
3,982
Location
Killen, AL
I didn't mow or spray this year. Was prepared to do so but lack of weeds made me decide to just disk, cultipack & plant. These were all reclaimed loading decks & second planting on them. My low dollar 6 seed blend came in at $43/acre with innoculant, $38/acre for seed only.
As you guys have said, it's different for everyone and you have to be flexible & adapt to conditions. Certainly no one size fits all!
 

BSK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 1999
Messages
81,645
Location
Nashville, TN
One technique the NDA video mentioned that I think I will incorporate next year into this non-drilled no-till technique is to run a cultipacker over the plot after seeding/mowing. The cultipacker isn't for making a firm seed bed but just to help shake the seed down through the duff and make better seed-to-soil contact. Good idea. I can't pull a drag harrow over it because that would drag the duff off the field.
 

DoubleRidge

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
9,871
Location
Middle Tennessee
Ive experimented with sow and mow multiple times and had varying degrees of success. Buckwheat did excellent and soybeans actually did ok as well, decent germination, but the most successful sow and mow plots were the ones where we got a good hard soaking rain just after sowing....driving the seed to the ground and matting and wetting the thatch down over the seed.....the process works.....but we just have to realize the plots will have some weeds (which some weeds are great for wildlife) and most likely the plot wont look like a food plot pictured in any magazine.....but tons of food can be generated and soil can be built with the sow and mow process.....and you can always spot spray the nastiest weeds like thistle and leave the good weeds in the plot.
 

DoubleRidge

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
9,871
Location
Middle Tennessee
One technique the NDA video mentioned that I think I will incorporate next year into this non-drilled no-till technique is to run a cultipacker over the plot after seeding/mowing. The cultipacker isn't for making a firm seed bed but just to help shake the seed down through the duff and make better seed-to-soil contact. Good idea. I can't pull a drag harrow over it because that would drag the duff off the field.
I like the cultipacker idea to press everything down....makes sense....even better if it were following a good rain.
 

BSK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 1999
Messages
81,645
Location
Nashville, TN
I like the cultipacker idea to press everything down....makes sense....even better if it were following a good rain.
One thing the NDA video - and I - agree on completely is this technique will only work if you get the seed down just before a solid rain. They can be an iffy proposition. But if you don't get rain on the seed almost immediately (within a day or two), odds are high birds will eat a lot of it, and some of the seed is going to die from heat/sun exposure. Years ago, I used to plant all my fall plots this way. Mow-spray-broadcast seed. If you don't get rain in a couple days, the germination rate is very poor.
 

Ski

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
4,551
Location
Coffee County
YouTube is something else for sure. There's an occasional gem but you'd better wear your hip waders to find them.

I've got three plots on one 100 acre property and each is completely different in soil composition, depth, and moisture retention. Only one responds well to mow and throw. The others require exposing soil. One is such hard clay that even radishes struggle to form without tilling first. Being hill country none are particularly easy to get to with equipment so I'm always trying different methods, seeds, and timing. I'm also not a farmer so no background knowledge of agriculture.

Everything I've learned so far has been trial/error. Some ideas have come from YouTube but most of the stuff I've tried from YouTube videos has been a bust. So far what works every time without fail is exposing loose soil, putting seed on it, and getting a good rain right away. In the several years I've been plotting, I've yet to experience soil degradation and/or erosion from tilling. For hunting plots where no harvest is occurring, I'm not convinced that stuff is the scorched earth issue YouTube experts suggest.
 

Henry

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2022
Messages
2,126
Location
NW TN
The previous owner of our property planted a 10-12 foot wide band of clover around a field that was taken out of service. It stays year round. The deer are always on it in the evening and after dark. I don't know much about food plots, but this seems to have been a very simple long term solution that they make a point to come to often.

The 18 year old son of the row crop neighbor at the back of our property told me he's planning to plant food plots so I guess we'll see this fall how the deer react to clover vs their plot.

May 21 2023 deer visit turkey videos 079.jpg
 
Last edited:

BSK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 1999
Messages
81,645
Location
Nashville, TN
YouTube is something else for sure. There's an occasional gem but you'd better wear your hip waders to find them.

I've got three plots on one 100 acre property and each is completely different in soil composition, depth, and moisture retention. Only one responds well to mow and throw. The others require exposing soil. One is such hard clay that even radishes struggle to form without tilling first. Being hill country none are particularly easy to get to with equipment so I'm always trying different methods, seeds, and timing. I'm also not a farmer so no background knowledge of agriculture.

Everything I've learned so far has been trial/error. Some ideas have come from YouTube but most of the stuff I've tried from YouTube videos has been a bust. So far what works every time without fail is exposing loose soil, putting seed on it, and getting a good rain right away. In the several years I've been plotting, I've yet to experience soil degradation and/or erosion from tilling. For hunting plots where no harvest is occurring, I'm not convinced that stuff is the scorched earth issue YouTube experts suggest.
Excellent point and examples.

Of course, I realize these food plot videos are geared more towards the average hunter/landowner in the average situation - creating/growing food plots in "normal" soil conditions. But there are other situations where the "rules" for "normal" soil don't apply. For instance, I fully understand the ideas behind no-till planting. Turned, exposed soil has a MUCH higher rate of erosion in heavy summer thunderstorms than untilled ground. Exposed, tuned soil, once it dries out, loses topsoil through wind erosion (that dust you see is your topsoil blowing away). The layer of decomposing thatch on an untilled plot holds moisture very well and that moisture does not evaporate as fast as moisture in turned soil. The decomposing thatch of an untilled field holds a much better population of the microbes necessary for nutrient transfer from soil to plant root.

HOWEVER, for those trying to grow food plots in the ridge-and-hollow sections of TN (and that's a big area), we are trying to grow long, narrow food plots on long, narrow ridges that exist because of the rock layers near the surface that prevent the ridge from eroding away. That rocky soil does not allow moisture to trickle down below the thatch. Yes, the thatch holds moisture, but directly below it is very dry, rocky soil that plant roots cannot penetrate and where soil moisture and nutrients are severely lacking. This isn't so much a problem in late fall and winter, when slow, steady rains and low evaporation rate weather allows moisture to slowly work its way down into the soil, but in summer these thin, thatch-only moisture layers can get dry fast. This makes growing summer crops a real crapshoot. A wet summer, you might be OK. A dry summer, which we get regularly, and your crops are a failure. The only way to get moisture and soil nutrients deeper into these rocky ridge-top soils is the break it up and turn it at least 6-8 inches deep. However, now you have all of the real problems of tilled ground versus untilled ground.

I've been at this rocky ridge-top soil food plotting business for many years, and I STILL don't have an answer as to what is the best system. In fact, after years of summer crop failures, I had given up trying to grow summer crops (the better moisture conditions in late fall and winter are a snap for food plots - the typical cool-season crops can handle the thinner soils and better moisture conditions just fine). But once I obtained the ability to turn the soil (a tractor and tiller powerful enough to break up the rocky soils), I've begun trying summer crops again. But I'm still not sure what will work best. Turn the soil every planting season, spring and fall, and suffer all of the real problems of turned ground, but get the benefit of deeper soil moisture? Only turn the soil once a year, spring or fall? Only turn the soil every couple of years? I don't know the answer yet.
 
Last edited:

Ski

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
4,551
Location
Coffee County
The only way to get moisture and soil nutrients deeper into these rocky ridge-top soils is the break it up and turn it at least 6-8 inches deep.

That's a fact. Simple seed to soil contact isn't enough for wind blown, hard rocky clay ridge tops. Seed will germinate just fine but it won't dig. There's a reason chestnut oaks thrive up there. The seed is HUGE and strong enough to tap the ground. Small "crop" seeds don't have a chance without some help to loosen the surface.

However, now you have all of the real problems of tilled ground versus untilled ground.

I'm not so sure. That's not been my experience at all. While it probably does happen to some degree, I don't think it's anything severe enough to even notice. On a huge open crop field it takes years & years & years to realize soil degradation & erosion from tilling. And that's with removing/harvesting matter at least once per year. I'm just not convinced it's an issue with comparably tiny food plots inside a forest where nothing is ever removed. I suppose there are some scenarios where it could be a thing, but I've not experienced it.
 
Top