What says TWRA about this...

[CopperHead77]

4, i am sure this eludes you, but to me "quality" in a turkey hunt would include lots of mature birds and lots of good gobbling. in case you didn't know, the two go together. so, listen closely, to manage for that you would protect the jakes and hens, because the jakes become toms. i know this is really complicated but i don't mind explaining it for you.

WOW.......thats..ahhhhh nevermind

 

[PickettSFHunter]

i hunt a large tract of public land in morgan co. :X several years ago it was nothing to hear 5 or 6 gobblers every morning. now most mornings you hear none. to my knowledge(very few people hunt this place and we all pretty much know each other) there have been a grand total of 7 turkeys killed off this place since i started hunting it(15+ yrs ago). where did all these turkeys go? it wasn't hunters.

That is what I have been try to tell people but they still think it is the 4 bird limit.The hatch has been down(until last year)the turkey pop. is down because of that.There were a lot of jakes killed this year because of the good hatch and know they are saying we killed to many jakes.We just need several good years of hatches in a row and everyone will shut up about the turkey.

BSL, if that is the case then why isnt Wayne County KY showing the same results we are? Are they having good hatches up there just a few miles away while we are having crappy hatches? I just want to reiterate this again, anytime you take over %30 of your standing population of male birds, it is not good for the population, great hatch or not. OR maybe those Wayne County hunters are just superior turkey hunters compared to us

 

[buckdead]

Turkeys have been talking to the deer about the better dirt!

finally a reasonable explanation. lol.

 

[102]

captain hook,
I have read post after ridiculoua post written by you. Your allegations that there has been a major die off in turkey populations, amoung other things, have NO FACT BASIS.
You are only arriving at your conclusions based on a few hunts in a comparitively small portion of the entire state. I seriously doubt you have either the profession, or the funding to make management decisions for YOUR county, let alone Unit B or the entire state.

You are entitiled to your opinion on what you think may have happened to turkey populations. Or what may happen to deer populations but MAKE NO MISTAKE...it is OPINION ONLY! Not based on scientific data gathered by paid professionals.

On the one hand people say there are Jakes being killed in record numbers, yet you say there must have been a "gap" in the population. Hmmmmmmm!!!

I say this to set the record straight. You are a relative newcomer to our state. I have been here for 45 plus years. IMO...TWRA does an outstanding job with what they have. I am not happy with everything...but then, I am happy with most!

102

 

[102]

Captain Hook,
Ditto for me with the following edits,

A few hunts???? You do realize that I am not just a once a month hunter, don't you? I spent 35-40 days in the woods during TN's turkey season this year. And pretty much the same number over 20 seasons, and have seen the numbers of mature gobblers where I hunt rise and fall (cyclically) over the years. Now as I have said before, I do not think hunting pressure is to blame for what I personally am experiencing, as I hunt very remote places, where quite simply folks are too lazy to get to with any frequency. I did call in a pile of birds for others in TN this year however.

So no I am not basing anything on a few hunts or years. And the fact is that the number of harvested birds has decreased...and increased, depending on a number of factors, in the last seasons.

I also,do have the profession in a way, with an undergrad degree in Forestry and Wildlife Management, and worked on numerous research projects while in school with turkeys/deer in the state of Tn. (Tn. Division of Forestry, Prentice Cooper WMA. I also, consult a few large hunting parcels in the state of Tenn. on proper management of everything from habitat to wildlife harvests, so for your understanding I too, have some background in this stuff.

Many paid professionals don't know jack about anything, while others know a ton.

Jakes were killed this year in high numbers, too dang high IMO, a record? I have no idea on that, but every jake that gets killed is one less mature bird possibly to be in the flock the next year. SO WHAT?

"The population gap isn't in jakes, the population gap is in mature birds, hens and I gobblers I suspect based on mine and others experiences. I also clearly stated this as well."

Again...no proof, just idle speculation and SO WHAT?

BTW, I have 27 years of hard core whitetail and Eastern Wild Turkey behavioral study. With STRONG emphasis on habitat, nutritional, and breeding behavior.

I know enough to emphatically state the following, "I can surmise, based on my years of study, that wildlife populations run through cycles. Highs and lows, if you will. THe cycles may be VERY benign in parameter. With triggers almost impossible to detect. Indeed, there may be so many factors contributing to a low, or high, that by the time it is realized, has long since deminished. While other "trigger factors" are as obvious as a mast crop failure and hard, long, snowy winter. To suggest that an actual "trend" is occurring with relative little data within a broad basis (large area of the state) is preposterous. And should not be taken seriously."
Granted, Therre probably will always be areas of ANY state that may need a reduction in a bag limit from time to time, but nature WILL take care of itself over time.

I find it amusing, that ANYONE on this forum, actually considers that hunters (so small in success rates/and fewer all the time in numbers anyway) have much affect at all on ANY population of animals.

102

 

[102]

Not a practical argumant at all and you KNOW it!

It is a cycle!

I doubt populations have varied that much anyway!

102

 

[RS]

Not a practical argumant at all and you KNOW it!

It is a cycle!

I doubt populations have varied that much anyway!

102

No 102, it is a totally practical argument........if the 500 acres had a dome around it and turkeys could not come and go from surrounding areas.

captain hook, you complained all through this years season about walking miles and miles and not hearing or seeing birds in East TN, but yet you state above that you "called in a pile of birds in East TN for other hunters". So, where did this magical pile of birds come from?

 

[Huntaholic]

Some of yall say its a cycle, in 25 years of hunting turkeys, I say its a wave. Once the wave passes I have NEVER seen it build back up to the levels it once was, PERIOD. 4 is too many. For those that say we as hunters have little to no impact, why dont you put up or shut up. Invite me, captain hook, and a couple more close friends I know to come hunt your place next spring. If we cant impact your population then I will give you my places to hunt for the next 3 years. Im growing tired of armchair turkey slayers who read well yet have little if any practical experience.

 

[4onaside]

Some of yall say its a cycle, in 25 years of hunting turkeys, I say its a wave. Once the wave passes I have NEVER seen it build back up to the levels it once was, PERIOD. 4 is too many. For those that say we as hunters have little to no impact, why dont you put up or shut up. Invite me, captain hook, and a couple more close friends I know to come hunt your place next spring. If we cant impact your population then I will give you my places to hunt for the next 3 years. Im growing tired of armchair turkey slayers who read well yet have little if any practical experience.

If 4 is too many for you then DON'T SHOOT 4. This whole deal appears to be a dog chasing his tail deal, round and round and round. But it seems to me that the people who are making the most noise about 4 being too many will tell you in a flash that they shoot 4. That in itself is a head scratcher. Why should the state cut the limit if all of you "too many" people don't practice what you preach? And your offer is .......well, never mind. My turkeys are for me. I have a decent population for me! Impact your own turkeys, or not. I can handle my own thank you. And if you are "growing tired of armchair turkey slayers" then quit reading the stuff. What I'm growing tired of people hundreds of miles from my place trying to tell me what's best for me. That is beltway liberal stuff all the way. In fact, I think that I will follow my own suggestion and quit reading this crap. LOL

 

[RS]

Some of yall say its a cycle, in 25 years of hunting turkeys, I say its a wave. Once the wave passes I have NEVER seen it build back up to the levels it once was, PERIOD. 4 is too many. For those that say we as hunters have little to no impact, why dont you put up or shut up.

Huntaholic, based on your quotes above, I'm just interested in knowing when was the last time you didn't kill the 4-bird limit in Tennessee?

The typical answer for those that complain yet kill the limit every year is usually "I spread my kills out over several farms". If you think 4 is too many, then 4 is too many period. Don't make excuses and complain when you continue kill the limit every year.

 

[TurkeyBurd]

4 is the limit!!!! Kill 4 or less, or what you're going to eat. We can't change the laws so let's be happy with what we have. $136 is enough to be upset about, let's don't argue with fellow hunters. I think we are all on this site because of the same interest. Let's just agree to disagree. Happy fishing!! Hope for a good hatch.

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

For those that say we as hunters have little to no impact, why dont you put up or shut up. Invite me, captain hook, and a couple more close friends I know to come hunt your place next spring. If we cant impact your population then I will give you my places to hunt for the next 3 years.

My turkeys are for me. I have a decent population for me! Impact your own turkeys, or not. I can handle my own thank you.

LOL Huntaholic before the season started, I tryied to get him to let me hunt is place this season and I would trade out the next season. That way I could save the turkeys on my place this year . But he say something about not being able to afford shells next year.

 

[Tennessee Todd]

I took 3 trips to Fentress County this year and brought back two longbeards. I should have killed one on my third trip, but he snuck in on me. Normally all four birds come from Fentress, but I found a few places closer to home this year where the other two came from.

I actually hunt very close to Steven's place. From my experience, there's as many or more birds there now as there have been in several years. All I can say is that I'm seeing birds, sorry if others in the area aren't.

I told you that golden nugget enhancer would work didn't I?

 

[RS]

If 4 birds is too many for each and every hunter to harvest then the limit should not be set so high.

That's a pretty dumb statement captain. If your logic of "every hunter harvesting the limit" was used, TWRA would likely not even allow turkey hunting. With a total population of around 300,000 birds (hens and gobblers), the limit couldn't even be set at 1 bird. I would veture to say that only around 25% of turkey hunters are successful. I do know that approximately 70% of those that are successful only kill one bird. TWRA knows this and does their best to set the limits accordingly.

The limit in Unit L is 3 antlerless deer per day. Do you honestly think TWRA set that limit thinking that every hunter would possibly kill 3 per day. It's not going to happen, just like very few turkey hunters are going to kill multiple birds each year.

 

[4onaside]

For those that say we as hunters have little to no impact, why dont you put up or shut up. Invite me, captain hook, and a couple more close friends I know to come hunt your place next spring. If we cant impact your population then I will give you my places to hunt for the next 3 years.

My turkeys are for me. I have a decent population for me! Impact your own turkeys, or not. I can handle my own thank you.

LOL Huntaholic before the season started, I tryied to get him to let me hunt is place this season and I would trade out the next season. That way I could save the turkeys on my place this year . But he say something about not being able to afford shells next year.

Hey 8, how'd you do this year? Did you kill your turkeys or did you kill somebody else's and save yours for next year? LOL

 

[RS]

BTW where did you get the 300,000 bird number from? I have never heard a population estimate for our flock.

ALso, we have no way of knowing how many turkey hunters are successful, because we have no idea how many turkey hunters there are in this state. So making assumptions on success statewide are mythical given the lack of knowledge.

The estimate comes from TWRA.

We may not know the exact number of turkey hunters in the state, but we do know for a fact that around 70% of the hunters only kill one bird. I don't know how many kill 3 or 4, but I would expect it be a very small percentage.

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

For those that say we as hunters have little to no impact, why dont you put up or shut up. Invite me, captain hook, and a couple more close friends I know to come hunt your place next spring. If we cant impact your population then I will give you my places to hunt for the next 3 years.

My turkeys are for me. I have a decent population for me! Impact your own turkeys, or not. I can handle my own thank you.

LOL Huntaholic before the season started, I tryied to get him to let me hunt is place this season and I would trade out the next season. That way I could save the turkeys on my place this year . But he say something about not being able to afford shells next year.

Hey 8, how'd you do this year? Did you kill your turkeys or did you kill somebody else's and save yours for next year? LOL

We killed 11 off our farm this year. We had been holding back the last couple of years, because of the bad hatches.

 

[4onaside]

Sounds like a bunch of turkeys. What part of the county are you in? How many people killed 11? And I ain't settin you up for the 4's too many sermon! I'm of the age where the battle cry is, "Wait, wait for what!". LOL

 

[RS]

We may not know the exact number of turkey hunters in the state, but we do know for a fact that around 70% of the hunters only kill one bird.

DO you realize how amazingly contradictory this statement is, and utterly false? If you don't know how many there are, there is no way you can know what percentage are successful.

You're right. What I meant to say was about 70% of the successful hunters only kill one bird. The remaining 30% of successful hunters kill more than one. TWRA may not know how many turkey hunters there are, but they do know how many were successful at taking birds.

 

[RS]

I've not seen any percentages from this year yet. I'm just hoping that all these jakes that everybody saw this past season will be gobbling good next year and maybe things will settle out over the next few seasons. I'm sure there were fewer 2-year olds this past season because of the late freeze and then drought conditions in 2007. All 4 of my birds this year appeared to be 3+ years old. Several of my buddies killed older birds too.