What is "Seeing a lot of deer?"

[jaybird62]

Opening morning of gun season for the past 10 years I will see from 18 to 25. This year, was 19 with 9 antlered bucks, and all different deer. Opening day afternoon sit produced 17 deer sighted. Unique deer sighted on my farm will drop as the season progresses, with a post-rut sit producing sightings of individual deer in the 8-10 range. Very few 3 1/2+ bucks sighted this year, and they were both deer that had never been seen before. I've hunted 45 days in TN this year on my farm, and the lowest number of deer seen was a single doe a couple of weeks ago. From one day to the next a lot of these deer are the same ones.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

Ty for this post! I have a similar terrain feature on one of my farms that I thought I would do more harm than good hunting it, but I never considered if I actually hunt it 18ft in a tree on top of the ridge, my scent would go over the approaching deer down below. I'm going to Jang a stand there this summer for next season and see what happens!

Don't forget entry and exit routes. Other things i try to do is get in the stand 45 minutes to an hour before daylight and i will sit in the stand in the evening until it is completely dark.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Ty for this post! I have a similar terrain feature on one of my farms that I thought I would do more harm than good hunting it, but I never considered if I actually hunt it 18ft in a tree on top of the ridge, my scent would go over the approaching deer down below. I'm going to Jang a stand there this summer for next season and see what happens!

Do it! I have several stands set up just like this. However, I'm up 30+ feet. Very interesting to watch deer straight down wind, but below you and never know you're in the world

 

[JCDEERMAN]

As to the OP, it all depends on where you hunt - terrain, ag country vs big timber, etc….

I hunt the ridge/hollow hardwoods and never hunted anything else. On average, I'd say most hunts generate sightings of 2-3 deer. You have sits like in 2019 after an ehd die off where you sit 7 mornings and not see a single deer. I've been there, but you also have sits where you see 19. But those are the extremes. Most sits for me generate 0 - 7 deer. If I saw 1 deer each sit, that keeps it interesting for me. To me, "A lot" of deer for a sit would be 5 or more.

 

[TheLBLman]

Don't forget entry and exit routes. Other things i try to do is get in the stand 45 minutes to an hour before daylight and i will sit in the stand in the evening until it is completely dark.

If I'm not on stand @ 45 minutes BEFORE first light, something's wrong!

In many, many setups, your "odds" are cut in half for the morning hunt if you're not on stand well before light. There is typically a tremendous amount of deer movement during that 30 minutes before first light, and many these deer will actually bed near you if you're already on stand. You'll see them later, but if you're coming to the stand after they're already there, you're busted.

As far as deer not easily catching your scent, seems to me the magic height begins around 22 feet or higher. I seldom go above 25 feet, seldom below 22, and seldom have even downwind deer become alarmed by my scent. But if in a typical ladder stand of 15 to 18 feet, you'll get busted nearly every time a deer is downwind. It is mainly for this reason I do most my hunting in a climbing stand, so can get higher, as well as easily relocate from one day to the next, even if I only relocate 50 to 100 yds.

Too often, the best way to completely ruin a great spot is to place a ladder stand there. Due to the convenience, it will nearly always get overhunted, and the area around it disturbed by all the comings & goings. It just takes one ole doe to detect someone's presence (see, hear, or smell you), and that "spot" has lost much of its former appeal.

The way BSK is doing ladder stands, i.e. incredible high number of ladder stands for the acreage, highly controlled as to when each gets hunted, and none hunted much at all annually, may work well. But in the more typical situation, someone places a ladder stand with the best of intentions, but overlooking how that stand becomes an "invitation" to other hunters, and the collective hunting of all tend to reduce the opportunities for that spot.

There are exceptions to every generalization, especially when targeting deer over 100 yds away, and when able to come & go without alarming deer over 100 yds from a particular spot.

 

[Ski]

Which is why I have to laugh when other hunters talk about how "good" hunters with their own land have it. I bet 90% of hunters would not find hunting my place enjoyable.

Ha! I understand that sentiment exactly. I've got 100 acres of intensely "enhanced" habitat in one of the top counties in the country for producing book bucks. Everybody I know seems to have the same hopeful delusion that giants are running around like you see on those arcade games. Then I let them hunt.

They almost never come back. Once is enough. Turns out sitting days on end without seeing a single deer is demoralizing for some hunters. Once they realize private land isn't actually easy, that booners don't offer themselves up as sacrifice, they lose interest. In my experience most hunters want constant stimuli and instant gratification. They all say they want to hunt big bucks but in truth they'll choose seeing does and young bucks every sit over a long, grueling hunt that may or may not end with a trophy. Even though they know that when they finally see a deer that it very likely could be a giant, they'd still rather sit where they can watch a bunch of does and youngsters. I suppose that's why they say 90% of trophies are attributed to 10% of the hunters.

 

[Andy S.]

As to the OP, it all depends on where you hunt - terrain, ag country vs big timber, etc….

Ditto, and what your individual goals are on each hunt. I have had morning hunts where I hunted until noon, quit counting deer mid morning at deer #35 and did not have success (did not pull the trigger), and had other mornings where I hunted until 10:30 before seeing/killing the ONE buck I was after, and he was the only deer I saw from the stand. For me, the second hunt I described here is why I hunt most outings, although the first hunt would be more fun to most people these days.

** Worth mentioning, hunter observation data means nothing without knowing the conditions in which it was collected (hardwoods, open fields, sapling thicket, etc.). I can hunt a thick sapling thicket and see 3 deer in a morning hunt due to visibility being no more than 50 yards and call that success, or I can hunt a wide open cut bean field and see 25 deer an evening with 23 of them being out of range. You are not comparing apples to apples when comparing observation data from the two. The devil is in the details. **

 

[BSK]

I will be the first to admit that compared to every other place that i have ever hunted that most would say that I over hunt my place without a doubt. One thing that i have figured out is that each stand has different variables that dictate actual pressure felt by deer. Wind direction is an obvious one, but stand entry and exit routes are the most critical ones over looked in my opinion. One of best spots, I rarely hunt due to the fact that i cannot get to it or leave it without causing a major disturbance. According to my cell cams, it has the most activity, but once again when i leave it is almost a certain that i will bump deer out. On the other hand i have the most unique spot that i have ever hunted that allows me to enter and exit with minimal disturbance. Also, with the proper wind, my scent blows over the edge of the ridge and over the heads of approaching deer. I have deer walk past me down wind constantly in this location and ner smell me. This spot has two ridges "T" in together with a deep flat saddle in the middle of the ridge junction. The other ridge is a thick cedar laden ridge with hard woods off to each side of it. On each side of the cedar ridge are deep draws with a bench on the southern side ridge that runs parallel to the ridge half way up. It is a very unique features that funnel deer in an unreal way. Redblood has hunted it and he agrees there is no place like that he has ever seen. I definitely overhunt this spot by traditional standards and to my own standards but this place is just different. I have seen 13 different 3.5 yr old or older bucks out of this stand this year. This picture below is this spot the blue is ridges, the white are hollows and the yellow is the bench. The majority of the deer will be funneled through this location. As a side note, the surrounding 2500 acres or so is virtually unhunted there is one guy that will not shoot bucks unless they are huge but they hammer does.View attachment 124097

Fascinating situation Hillbilly Hunter. Thanks for sharing. And I agree "overhunting" is all relative. Some areas get burned out quickly. Others, not so much depending upon unique circumstances.

My biggest problem is that most of our "hotspots" are unique features located along long narrow ridges. The only way to access those locations is to walk the top of the ridgeline, which is where most of the deer are walking too. Extreme caution with boot scent is required to keep these locations from going dead during the season, and no matter what we do, 3-4 hunts in a season is all we're going to get out of them before daylight activity declines dramatically.

 

[BSK]

** Worth mentioning, hunter observation data means nothing without knowing the conditions in which it was collected (hardwoods, open fields, sapling thicket, etc.). I can hunt a thick sapling thicket and see 3 deer in a morning hunt due to visibility being no more than 50 yards and call that success, or I can hunt a wide open cut bean field and see 25 deer an evening with 23 of them being out of range. You are not comparing apples to apples when comparing observation data from the two. The devil is in the details. **

I couldn't agree more. Deer Observation Rates cannot be used as a biological measure unless each property's data, and even each individual's data, is analyzed separately for year to year comparison. However, it can be used as a measure of "hunter satisfaction." Are hunters on a given property seeing more deer per hour or less? At what point does "less" become unacceptable? So much of deer management is actually hunter management. Quite often "what is biologically sound" has to be weighed against what is acceptable to the hunters. And unhappy hunters stop managing.

 

[Andy S.]

So much of deer management is actually hunter management.

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

[utvolsfan77]

My personal opinion is, it just depends. There are entirely too many variables that come into play even in one small area, much less from one end of the state to the other.

Here's just one example. Age and medical issues incurred since leaving the military prevent me from hunting the big woods and mountains of East Tennessee as I did when younger. Consequently, I began seeking landowner permission to hunt smaller farms in my area, farms that often are only 15 to 30 acres total, and this taught me several things.

First, most people will walk right on by these smaller tracts, assuming that they are just too small to hold deer, but I have been fairly successful using this technique over the past 20 years. Several of the small farms I hunt NEVER have any agricultural crops but may have soft and hard mast in wooded areas. Second, frequently deer DO NOT LIVE on these farms but only browse through while travelling between bedding and feeding areas. Third, scent control is a must and I always try to keep my clothing and equipment as scent free as possible. Fourth, critical to being successful in this type of hunting is quickly identifying key terrain features, using them to exploit existing travel corridors, and always being mindful of wind and thermal directions.

Does anyone remember how warm it was here in upper east Tennessee during the fall of 2011? It was hot! When archery season opened, I was hunting a small 35-acre farm I had had prior success in previous years. The first 17 days I hunted during the 2011-2012 deer season, I did not see a single deer on this farm. On day 18, I only saw an extremely small spotted fawn that would probably have weighed much less than 10 pounds. That fawn could not have been more than a few weeks old, and it made me wonder where all the deer had gone. On day 19 I saw a single doe and was near the point of quitting hunting altogether, but the next day I saw more than 20 fawns, does, and young bucks during an all-day sit.

I hunted that same farm over 10 years until the owner died and I lost access. The biggest single thing I learned from hundreds of hours spent there year-round was that deer DID NOT live on that farm, they only travelled through it. In fact, on average they seemed to pass through about once every three days. That same pattern was noticed on some of the other small farms I hunted as well. An odd observation, I know, but one that repeated itself regularly enough that I noticed.

So back to the original question. How many deer do I expect to see during a sit? None. I hope to see deer, but don't expect it and that way I cannot be disappointed. Having said that, here in upper East Tennessee (Greene County), since 2003 I have seen as little as zero deer to as many as 40 deer during a single sit.

 

[fairchaser]

If I'm not on stand @ 45 minutes BEFORE first light, something's wrong!

In many, many setups, your "odds" are cut in half for the morning hunt if you're not on stand well before light. There is typically a tremendous amount of deer movement during that 30 minutes before first light, and many these deer will actually bed near you if you're already on stand. You'll see them later, but if you're coming to the stand after they're already there, you're busted.

As far as deer not easily catching your scent, seems to me the magic height begins around 22 feet or higher. I seldom go above 25 feet, seldom below 22, and seldom have even downwind deer become alarmed by my scent. But if in a typical ladder stand of 15 to 18 feet, you'll get busted nearly every time a deer is downwind. It is mainly for this reason I do most my hunting in a climbing stand, so can get higher, as well as easily relocate from one day to the next, even if I only relocate 50 to 100 yds.

Too often, the best way to completely ruin a great spot is to place a ladder stand there. Due to the convenience, it will nearly always get overhunted, and the area around it disturbed by all the comings & goings. It just takes one ole doe to detect someone's presence (see, hear, or smell you), and that "spot" has lost much of its former appeal.

The way BSK is doing ladder stands, i.e. incredible high number of ladder stands for the acreage, highly controlled as to when each gets hunted, and none hunted much at all annually, may work well. But in the more typical situation, someone places a ladder stand with the best of intentions, but overlooking how that stand becomes an "invitation" to other hunters, and the collective hunting of all tend to reduce the opportunities for that spot.

There are exceptions to every generalization, especially when targeting deer over 100 yds away, and when able to come & go without alarming deer over 100 yds from a particular spot.

I'm curious if you use a light to get to your stand. I would think a light would disturb deer vs still hunting to the stand at first light. This has been by method the last few years if I have to walk in woods. Sounds like you might disagree.

 

[beefydeer]

Too often, the best way to completely ruin a great spot is to place a ladder stand there.

I only hunt out of a climber and never climb the same tree twice in a season. Gotta keep them deer guessing.

 

[WTNBowHunter]

Quality over quantity. Would rather see mature bucks in bow range than a field full of does, which is probably like everyone else. But with that said, it's always more fun watching deer than not seeing anything. If I had to put a number on it where I hunt, seeing 5-7 deer is a good sit. A lot for me would be 8+, <4 isn't a disappointment.

 

[FLTENNHUNTER1]

I would consider 3-5 while in the stand dawn to dusk a lot of deer.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

If I'm not on stand @ 45 minutes BEFORE first light, something's wrong!

In many, many setups, your "odds" are cut in half for the morning hunt if you're not on stand well before light. There is typically a tremendous amount of deer movement during that 30 minutes before first light, and many these deer will actually bed near you if you're already on stand. You'll see them later, but if you're coming to the stand after they're already there, you're busted.

As far as deer not easily catching your scent, seems to me the magic height begins around 22 feet or higher. I seldom go above 25 feet, seldom below 22, and seldom have even downwind deer become alarmed by my scent. But if in a typical ladder stand of 15 to 18 feet, you'll get busted nearly every time a deer is downwind. It is mainly for this reason I do most my hunting in a climbing stand, so can get higher, as well as easily relocate from one day to the next, even if I only relocate 50 to 100 yds.

Too often, the best way to completely ruin a great spot is to place a ladder stand there. Due to the convenience, it will nearly always get overhunted, and the area around it disturbed by all the comings & goings. It just takes one ole doe to detect someone's presence (see, hear, or smell you), and that "spot" has lost much of its former appeal.

The way BSK is doing ladder stands, i.e. incredible high number of ladder stands for the acreage, highly controlled as to when each gets hunted, and none hunted much at all annually, may work well. But in the more typical situation, someone places a ladder stand with the best of intentions, but overlooking how that stand becomes an "invitation" to other hunters, and the collective hunting of all tend to reduce the opportunities for that spot.

There are exceptions to every generalization, especially when targeting deer over 100 yds away, and when able to come & go without alarming deer over 100 yds from a particular spot.

That is a freaking mouthful LBL! I totally agree on all aspects. I don't know where to start. Cliff notes: yes getting in early is key. I have had bucks grunting and paralleling me on the ridgetop I'm walking and coming to me many times before light. They've heard me walking and come right to me. Could have shot them just from the moon light.

When it comes to scent, totally agree. The higher up, the better off you are. Where I'm at, 22' doesn't cut it. It's more like 25-35'.

I also agree on the stand placement in the event someone may want to hunt there on an inappropriate wind (just because there's a stand there). Just this year I highly advised someone not to hunt a particular stand and he did. A good buck came up a point I figured he would but it was positioned just off where the deer could tip him off and he (target buck) smelled him and he got a glimpse of him running off. You know as well as I do that there is a FINE LINE on that "just off wind" where you have the advantage, but it's almost perfect for that buck.

It ruined that spot for me and I obviously never hunted that stand afterwards. That target buck wasn't going to do the same thing again. It goes back to your point - putting stands at a location where others can easily access will ruin spots. I intentionally place my lock-ons 25-35' up to deter them from getting in them. It's too high for them. He had a chance to shoot that buck but didn't know exactly what deer it was.

This goes into the OCD I have…..I study deer and know their age and their antler characteristics . I can tell right off the bat if he's a targeted deer or not. My uncle didn't have that info, and it cost him. He should have taken that open shot on the vitals, but he didn't. Smelled him and took off

 

[TheLBLman]

I'm curious if you use a light to get to your stand. I would think a light would disturb deer vs still hunting to the stand at first light. This has been by method the last few years if I have to walk in woods. Sounds like you might disagree.

I use a low intensity red or green headlamp.
When getting close to stand site, I switch to the red, and keep in on red while messing around at the base of a tree, then climbing.

It may be counter-intuitive, but these lights do not spook deer.
I frequently walk within 35 yds (sometimes closer) to bedded deer without their leaving!
The secret is do not change your gait, avoid shining the light directly into their eyes. Once you pick up deer eyes, direct the light beam "by" them rather than at them.

If you stop walking, then shine your light directly at them, yes, they may take off.
But if they think you're just another critter walking by in the woods, they usually are not very alarmed, and do not leave. They do usually stand up, but they don't "spook".

Also, for whatever reasons, deer are just not as "spooky" an hour before light as they become during daylight, or when it's "graying" right before legal shooting time. I really believe the deer may typically be no more concerned about my walking by than they are about a raccoon.

 

[GRIT]

Before unit L started it wasn't nothing to see 25 or 30 deer every time i went hunting .Don't see them like that any more but i see deer 95% of my hunts might be 1 could be 12 or so. I have a farm in Robertson County i have been hunting it about 35 years now use to see 30+ deer all most every time i went there now if i see 5 or so there now it's a good hunt.

 

[Jim Fred]

I am honestly satisfied to see 1-2 deer a sit, but it also depends a bit on time of year and location I'm hunting.

If condition indicate the rut is on than I would probably be a little disappointed if I only saw 1-2 deer. During the rut I would hope to see at least 5-10 in a 5 or ) hour sit.

Sometimes I think you also just have to be realistic and realize that the deer just had a different plan on where to bed & feed that day than you hoped they would.

 

[BSK]

I also agree on the stand placement in the event someone may want to hunt there on an inappropriate wind (just because there's a stand there). Just this year I highly advised someone not to hunt a particular stand and he did. A good buck came up a point I figured he would but it was positioned just off where the deer could tip him off and he (target buck) smelled him and he got a glimpse of him running off. You know as well as I do that there is a FINE LINE on that "just off wind" where you have the advantage, but it's almost perfect for that buck.

I have absolutely no doubt our exclusive use of ladder stands hurts our success. But considering at 59, I'm the youngest of the hard-core hunters, and even I won't use a climber, it's more about ease of access than anything else, knowing full well "community ladders" probably hurt our chances. But we try to overcome that disadvantage by putting up so many ladders that they get hunted infrequently. Here at the end of the season, we still have a couple of ladders that no one has hunted this year. In addition, we try to move as many of the ladders as possible to new locations each year.