Turkey season changes....

[Displaced_Vol]

I'm not discounting the issue of nest or brood predation or the need to address it via trapping and whatever means may be effective, but isn't that a symptom of an overall larger issue of habitat decline or loss? Even if it's not being totally lost to development it's going through various ages of succession. So as the available "good" cover shrinks it concentrated the hens, nests & broods & it's easier for predators to be more efficient. That's obviously a bigger task to fix, but just thinking about triaging the issues in my head. And I am legitimately curious what those in the know think, I very well may be totally off base.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Even if it's not being totally lost to development it's going through various ages of succession.

True. I don't think you're off base at all and agree that habitat mgt is also key with major considerations being what changes are going on not only on your property but neighboring land. A few personal examples from the last 10 years:
- I've had immediately adjacent neighbors clearcut no less than 800ac of mature hardwood.
- About 1/3rd of my farm is now 18 yr old planted pine that needs to thinned.
- What started out as a snake infested mess of a beaver swamp was reclaimed and is now 14ac of the prettiest pollinator habitat you could imagine.

All of the above habitat changes (some natural and others by man) have all increased, decreased, or altered the way turkeys use it. Wildlife mgt is a Rubik's cube and no single "silver bullet" exists especially for turkeys. The good news is there's alot land managers can do if they're up to the task.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

Its never opened any earlier than it has been. Not in smith or wilson counties anyways.

Before the juvenile turkey season was implemented, the regular season opened that weekend, so it used to open a week earlier.

 

[TITANSFAN2104]

Before the juvenile turkey season was implemented, the regular season opened that weekend, so it used to open a week earlier.

Thats why i said its never opened any earlier. Turkey killing has always started around the last sat in march or even the second to last depending how the dates fell. I was saying that based on the idea we are killing turkeys too early. A season has always opened around that date since around 1992 or 93 in those counties

 

[TITANSFAN2104]

I'm not discounting the issue of nest or brood predation or the need to address it via trapping and whatever means may be effective, but isn't that a symptom of an overall larger issue of habitat decline or loss? Even if it's not being totally lost to development it's going through various ages of succession. So as the available "good" cover shrinks it concentrated the hens, nests & broods & it's easier for predators to be more efficient. That's obviously a bigger task to fix, but just thinking about triaging the issues in my head. And I am legitimately curious what those in the know think, I very well may be totally off base.

Ive been saying that for years. Look at all the farms that were grown up around here in the 90s and now they are cleaning every cedar tree off of every rockpile they can find. Thats why quail have took a hit as well as turkeys. we are cleaning up every piece of land and making it look like a city park. The big farms are getting tracked up and cleaned up. UHHHH... I guess they call it progress nowadays

 

[Setterman]

Every single license holder should be pissed at TWRA. They're the ones that raised the spring limit to 4 birds, and they're the ones that for years told us it would be an issue and that everything was fine with the population. Despite all data showing the opposite.

The people to blame and the reason we are in this mess are:
1. Twra for raising the limit to 4
2. Twra for not adjusting season limits when poult counts tanked
3. the a$$holes who argued to the death that the limit increases wouldn't matter. There's plenty of them posting here today who were adamant that it would have no impact

The season shift and entire debacle lays at the feet of TWRA and the mismanagement of what was a great resource though. Their mistakes and incompetence led to this and there's not a single one of them being held accountable. Yet, we as license holders are being bent over because they are clueless

 

[redblood]

Before the juvenile turkey season was implemented, the regular season opened that weekend, so it used to open a week earlier.

Your right. I had forgotten that

 

[redblood]

Im glad TWRA is taking steps to hell with the recovery. But I actually think they are a little late. I can definitely see a strong recovery of the flock in my area. I took this pic today when i came for lunch. I had turkeys in every field.

 

[Hduke86]

Well if it helps…. I just got my first 4 raccoons of the year in the traps tonight.

 

[muddyboots]

It's never opened any earlier than it has been. Not in smith or wilson counties anyways.

It used to open first Saturday closest to April 1 before we had juvenile hunts. I used to get to hunt turkeys in March some years when limit was 2. Hunting was outstanding. It's not rocket science.

 

[th88]

Every single license holder should be pissed at TWRA. They're the ones that raised the spring limit to 4 birds, and they're the ones that for years told us it would be an issue and that everything was fine with the population. Despite all data showing the opposite.

The people to blame and the reason we are in this mess are:
1. Twra for raising the limit to 4
2. Twra for not adjusting season limits when poult counts tanked
3. the a$$holes who argued to the death that the limit increases wouldn't matter. There's plenty of them posting here today who were adamant that it would have no impact

The season shift and entire debacle lays at the feet of TWRA and the mismanagement of what was a great resource though. Their mistakes and incompetence led to this and there's not a single one of them being held accountable. Yet, we as license holders are being bent over because they are clueless

Can you post the data that shows raising the limit sent TN into turkey decline? I'm fairly well versed in turkey literature and other than a theory that is slowly drifting out of the spotlight, and a dated study from MO that isn't even really relevant, i'm not aware of "all the data" you are referring to.

Lots of the recent data shows what many of us have said all along. Predation.

That being said, 4 is a heck of a lot of turkey to take in a single state and I'm fine with limit being dropped to three even though it won't make a difference. It is just "spreading the wealth". Dropping the limit to 2 saves a few more turkey than going from 4 to 3, but in the grand scheme of things on a landscape/statewide level, won't solve the turkey issue states are facing. On certain properties it could certainly help with mature bird carryover. But that is assuming a hunter doesn't take people after they kill their two, someone else doesn't kill what would have been their number 3, the gobbler doesn't die from natural causes before next spring, etc.

 

[WTM]

Im glad TWRA is taking steps to hell with the recovery. But I actually think they are a little late. I can definitely see a strong recovery of the flock in my area. I took this pic today when i came for lunch. I had turkeys in every field.

twra cant control the weather. id say if we get a few more years of decent spring weather like we had this past year, we will see a big increase in populations.

ive seen the largest flocks of new birds in benton county that i can remember in 15 years and we still have plenty of yotes, coons, possums and dillos.

one pasture i used to see at least a dozen mature gobblers in i havent in five years, until this year.

 

[Bone Collector]

well I will try to add some optimism to this thread. odds are better that we will not open the season in thermals, and deer hunting clothes....

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

Thats why i said its never opened any earlier. Turkey killing has always started around the last sat in march or even the second to last depending how the dates fell. I was saying that based on the idea we are killing turkeys too early. A season has always opened around that date since around 1992 or 93 in those counties

Gotcha. Regular season used to open earlier. Very few turkeys are killed on the juvenile hunt.

 

[knightrider]

Gotcha. Regular season used to open earlier. Very few turkeys are killed on the juvenile hunt.

My son went 8 for 8 on the juvi's we always hammer the gobblers first two weeks im sure gonna miss those first two weeks of april

 

[deerfever]

My son went 8 for 8 on the juvi's we always hammer the gobblers first two weeks im sure gonna miss those first two weeks of april

Yep! Much rather have those first two weeks of April then the last two weeks of May.

 

[TITANSFAN2104]

Gotcha. Regular season used to open earlier. Very few turkeys are killed on the juvenile hunt.

You're not on Facebook are you?? While it's not expected to be as many killed on the juvenile, there are still alot of birds killed. They post a bunch of them every year. I have never looked and compared the juvenile to opening weekend though.

 

[TITANSFAN2104]

Can you post the data that shows raising the limit sent TN into turkey decline? I'm fairly well versed in turkey literature and other than a theory that is slowly drifting out of the spotlight, and a dated study from MO that isn't even really relevant, i'm not aware of "all the data" you are referring to.

Lots of the recent data shows what many of us have said all along. Predation.

That being said, 4 is a heck of a lot of turkey to take in a single state and I'm fine with limit being dropped to three even though it won't make a difference. It is just "spreading the wealth". Dropping the limit to 2 saves a few more turkey than going from 4 to 3, but in the grand scheme of things on a landscape/statewide level, won't solve the turkey issue states are facing. On certain properties it could certainly help with mature bird carryover. But that is assuming a hunter doesn't take people after they kill their two, someone else doesn't kill what would have been their number 3, the gobbler doesn't die from natural causes before next spring, etc.

At one point you could kill 4 bearded birds in the spring and 6 bearded or nonbearded in the fall in Smith and Wilson.
It's since changed and I don't remember if the 6 per county was when we had a 2,3 or 4 spring limit.
I remember when the limit was 2 and no fall seasons when we had flocks of 100 plus birds on the farms I hunted in the fall time. That was the 90s through the first few years of the 2000s.
Now we see fall/early spring flocks from 30-40 birds.
We still have a pretty good Population but not like it used to be.
About 5 years ago we had a group of about 25 jakes running around and that was tough on the old Longbeards.

 

[th88]

At one point you could kill 4 bearded birds in the spring and 6 bearded or nonbearded in the fall in Smith and Wilson.
It's since changed and I don't remember if the 6 per county was when we had a 2,3 or 4 spring limit.
I remember when the limit was 2 and no fall seasons when we had flocks of 100 plus birds on the farms I hunted in the fall time. That was the 90s through the first few years of the 2000s.
Now we see fall/early spring flocks from 30-40 birds.
We still have a pretty good Population but not like it used to be.
About 5 years ago we had a group of about 25 jakes running around and that was tough on the old Longbeards.

I forgot about those crazy fall bird limits!

In many places, those flocks of 100+ birds were right after the reintroduction boom. History shows us that the reintroduction booms aren't really sustainable. You see the boom almost everywhere after turkeys are successfully reintroduced and take hold. The high populations may last a decade or more, but eventually they decline and start to experience the natural swings that turkey populations experience. You can look at pretty much any state's turkey history and see this. There are states right now still in the boom phase, but their populations will eventually drop and level off too with ups and downs along the way.

 

[deerfever]

I forgot about those crazy fall bird limits!

In many places, those flocks of 100+ birds were right after the reintroduction boom. History shows us that the reintroduction booms aren't really sustainable. You see the boom almost everywhere after turkeys are successfully reintroduced and take hold. The high populations may last a decade or more, but eventually they decline and start to experience the natural swings that turkey populations experience. You can look at pretty much any state's turkey history and see this. There are states right now still in the boom phase, but their populations will eventually drop and level off too with ups and downs along the way.

Yes Sir! Everything I have ever read has said this! This goes back to reading guys saying I used to hear 15 a morning but now I only hear 5. From what I understand it's a natural cycle and the explosion was never sustainable. I used to not even be able to hunt turkeys in some of the counties that I do now. I would have to travel long distance to hear a bird. Now I see and hear them were I couldn't just 5 years or so ago. Different areas of our state did better than others with the introduction of turkeys , now different stages exist. That's why you get so many different opinions on here about turkeys. I thought the limit of 3 was the sweet spot with no bonus birds allowed on quota hunts , I am fine with 2 but bring back the bonus bird. If anyone can explain to me how quota hunts with a set of amount of people, confined area, days and some even end at noon effect our state wide population of turkeys I would appreciate it.These place are not open with statewide season. Come on April 15th! Great hatches this year with no two week delay, things are looking good for all of us!