Suggestions to see more bucks

[UCStandSitter]

How would you know?

So are bigfoots. Lol

 

[woodsman04]

I hate to say it, but a good percentage of success is flat out luck.

You could do everything perfect and still not see him. Coyote bump him, another hunter bump him, or hell, if he don't want to walk by where your set up he ain't got to.

 

[Ski]

We all know how you feel about cameras. You remind us literally every time a topic or post mentions trail camera. Sometimes I wonder if you're trying to convince us ..... or yourself.

 

[Ski]

I hate to say it, but a good percentage of success is flat out luck.

You could do everything perfect and still not see him. Coyote bump him, another hunter bump him, or hell, if he don't want to walk by where your set up he ain't got to.

I'd say that's true to some extent. Also true to some extent is that the same people kill big buck after big buck after big buck, so either they're the luckiest people on the planet or else they aren't only lucky. What they know is what I'm always trying to learn because I sincerely do believe odds can be increased.

 

[BSK]

I'd say that's true to some extent. Also true to some extent is that the same people kill big buck after big buck after big buck, so either they're the luckiest people on the planet or else they aren't only lucky. What they know is what I'm always trying to learn because I sincerely do believe odds can be increased.

Working with as many clubs as I do what I find time and again is there are one or two hunters who always kill the old bucks. They will kill more old bucks than all the other hunters in the club combined. For them, it isn't just luck.

 

[StalkingWolf]

You are right, I only personally know of a few hunters like me that not only do not use cameras but have never used them. The only time I attempted to was a failure. My daughter was not seeing deer on a farm we used to hunt, there were deer there, but late season they had "disappeared". I thought I will boost her confidence, got a camera and borrowed one to get some pics. I had hunted this farm for over 30 years, killed a pile of deer off of it. I thought I should know where to put a camera. I got pics of many animals, but not one deer. No deer at all. She did end up killing 3 deer after I put the cameras out and got no pics, that almost ruined her wanting to hunt and she even killed a nice buck, but the cameras never had a deer pic. Yeah I really need those.

I like your question, but just because I don't like them or care to use them doesn't mean I don't know anything about them. And as to how would I know, most every one I talk to uses trail cameras and it was actually an outfitter, a good one, his clients kill many great bucks every season in fair chase hunts, zero fences, that outfitter is who first told me about deer avoiding cameras, especially mature bucks, He told me a couple years ago. He said at first he didn't believe it, but he told me how, I don't remember all he said or exactly what he did, but he proved to himself and his guides that mature bucks avoid cameras, and he said that meant any camera. In his opinion, basically no one gets every deer on camera and mature bucks are the best at avoiding them. And I hear from other hunters and read posts of "we never had that deer on camera, don't know where he came from, no one had pics of that deer on camera", etc, and my favorite, "we don't have any pics of bucks or good bucks, so we are not hunting that area or at all". It amazes me how many hunt by what they see or don't see on camera. If cameras are what you like, have at it, other than to catch trespassers, thieves etc. I have no use for cameras, I prefer to hunt and be in the woods and even if I screw up, I let my knowledge and what I see in while hunting make my decisions, not what I see on camera. Again, I have nothing against them, actually I enjoy seeing pics of all the animals and the crazy things people get on trail cameras, but I don't care to use them and most likely never will.

I agree. I have never purchased a trail camera in over 40 years of deer hunting. I rely on woodsmanship, patience, and basically general knowledge of the area I am hunting. Everyone wants a sure thing now days. I enjoy the anticipation and waiting on what the Lord will see fit to send my way.

 

[StalkingWolf]

I feel like I'm stuck in a rut only seeing little bucks and mainly does. Hunting state ground. Any suggestions?

Just tell me where you are seeing all of these little bucks and does, and I will come and assess the situation for a small consulting fee!!

 

[Headhunter]

Working with as many clubs as I do what I find time and again is there are one or two hunters who always kill the old bucks. They will kill more old bucks than all the other hunters in the club combined. For them, it isn't just luck.

I am for sure one who relies on luck and persistence. I stay in the woods til a deer makes a mistake and then I hopefully I don't miss the opportunity.

 

[Polarkraft]

Hunt in a place with more bucks

 

[BSK]

I agree. I have never purchased a trail camera in over 40 years of deer hunting. I rely on woodsmanship, patience, and basically general knowledge of the area I am hunting. Everyone wants a sure thing now days. I enjoy the anticipation and waiting on what the Lord will see fit to send my way.

I've used a lot of trail-cameras and not once have they helped me kill a buck. The only advantage they might provide is keeping me excited and in the woods because I know a good buck is really out there.

 

[Ski]

I agree. I have never purchased a trail camera in over 40 years of deer hunting. I rely on woodsmanship, patience, and basically general knowledge of the area I am hunting. Everyone wants a sure thing now days. I enjoy the anticipation and waiting on what the Lord will see fit to send my way.

If you had a camera, how would you know where to hang it? Would you not need to have good woodsmanship and a general knowledge of the area?

Contrary to the common misconceptions, cameras aren't an easy button. They don't offer a hunter a sure thing. What they really do well is allow a hunter to accumulate information season after season, and when overlaid & analyzed, repetitive patterns can become seen that otherwise wouldn't by only hunting. They're a tool for collecting data, nothing more nothing less. And like any tool they are only as good as the person using it.

Having a set of wrenches doesn't mean you automatically know how to fix a car. Those wrenches don't troubleshoot the problem. Experience and know how does. Exactly same thing with hunting and cameras.

 

[BSK]

If you had a camera, how would you know where to hang it? Would you not need to have good woodsmanship and a general knowledge of the area?

Contrary to the common misconceptions, cameras aren't an easy button. They don't offer a hunter a sure thing. What they really do well is allow a hunter to accumulate information season after season, and when overlaid & analyzed, repetitive patterns can become seen that otherwise wouldn't by only hunting. They're a tool for collecting data, nothing more nothing less. And like any tool they are only as good as the person using it.

Having a set of wrenches doesn't mean you automatically know how to fix a car. Those wrenches don't troubleshoot the problem. Experience and know how does. Exactly same thing with hunting and cameras.

Just my personal opinion, but I always find it interesting that those who criticize and make claims about trail-cameras are also those who say they have never used them. If' you haven't used them how do you know how effective they are concerning hunting?

From year to year, bucks will use parts of my property more than other parts. One year it's the southwestern 1/3. Another year it's the northern half. And so on. Cameras can help display these trends. However, reading the sign will tell you the exact same thing. Where the bucks are more concentrated, the sign is more concentrated. The cameras didn't help me determine where the bucks are, just which bucks are making that concentrated sign.

And although it's not an absolute rule, I find it interesting how often I will kill a particular buck far outside the range of where I get his pictures on trail-cam. All of his pictures may be coming from one part of my property but I end up killing him a half mile outside that range. This happens so often I wonder if there is something to it.

 

[Ski]

Just my personal opinion, but I always find it interesting that those who criticize and make claims about trail-cameras are also those who say they have never used them. If' you haven't used them how do you know how effective they are concerning hunting?

From year to year, bucks will use parts of my property more than other parts. One year it's the southwestern 1/3. Another year it's the northern half. And so on. Cameras can help display these trends. However, reading the sign will tell you the exact same thing. Where the bucks are more concentrated, the sign is more concentrated. The cameras didn't help me determine where the bucks are, just which bucks are making that concentrated sign.

And although it's not an absolute rule, I find it interesting how often I will kill a particular buck far outside the range of where I get his pictures on trail-cam. All of his pictures may be coming from one part of my property but I end up killing him a half mile outside that range. This happens so often I wonder if there is something to it.

Yeah its the same argument every time. It's easy, cheating, for lazy people, etc. But the folks saying it have little or no experience. They take a tidbit of hearsay and fill in the gaps with their own narrative. They know people with cameras or somebody said this or somebody said that. But first hand real personal experience is never the naysayers' basis for their argument.

 

[Headhunter]

We all know how you feel about cameras. You remind us literally every time a topic or post mentions trail camera. Sometimes I wonder if you're trying to convince us ..... or yourself.

If you had a camera, how would you know where to hang it? Would you not need to have good woodsmanship and a general knowledge of the area?

Contrary to the common misconceptions, cameras aren't an easy button. They don't offer a hunter a sure thing. What they really do well is allow a hunter to accumulate information season after season, and when overlaid & analyzed, repetitive patterns can become seen that otherwise wouldn't by only hunting. They're a tool for collecting data, nothing more nothing less. And like any tool they are only as good as the person using it.

Having a set of wrenches doesn't mean you automatically know how to fix a car. Those wrenches don't troubleshoot the problem. Experience and know how does. Exactly same thing with hunting and cameras.

Just my personal opinion, but I always find it interesting that those who criticize and make claims about trail-cameras are also those who say they have never used them. If' you haven't used them how do you know how effective they are concerning hunting?

From year to year, bucks will use parts of my property more than other parts. One year it's the southwestern 1/3. Another year it's the northern half. And so on. Cameras can help display these trends. However, reading the sign will tell you the exact same thing. Where the bucks are more concentrated, the sign is more concentrated. The cameras didn't help me determine where the bucks are, just which bucks are making that concentrated sign.

And although it's not an absolute rule, I find it interesting how often I will kill a particular buck far outside the range of where I get his pictures on trail-cam. All of his pictures may be coming from one part of my property but I end up killing him a half mile outside that range. This happens so often I wonder if there is something to it.

I am one the "critics". How do I have knowledge about cameras? Because that is one of the main subjects of deer hunting in today's world. It cracks me up how many ignore someone, don't talk to them, etc. because they don't use cameras. Reminds me of tournament fishermen who think they know everything when there are many who care nothing about tournaments, but they catch way more fish than the tournament fishermen do. Cameras may be the number 1 subject in deer hunting conversations. I have no care either way about them, but they are not something I want to use. Crazy thing is, I will put out a couple cameras for my daughter this week or next week. She thinks she would like them, just because I never have cared for them is no reason for her not to try them. I will let her pick the locations and set them up and see what she gets. And I hope she has great luck and enjoys the pics.

One thought, and this may be changing, but cameras have probably saved more bucks lives than they have helped kill. I cannot even begin to remember the number of great bucks I have seen pics of that not only were never killed but never seen, at least by those that had the pics and tried to kill the buck(s) they had pics of. I really believe people spook deer, especially mature bucks with cameras. I don't need a camera or pics to encourage me to hunt, I love to hunt. And another way cameras are beneficial is that people will let younger bucks walk knowing there is a "giant" in the area also, only to never see the "giant", so to me that is huge benefit.

Second, I do know cameras have helped several kill bucks, partly by pics encouraging people to stay in the woods when they would not have been hunting if they didn't have a picture.

Also, I know of a few instances, especially cameras that send pics, that great bucks have been killed because of the pics.

One was a 150" 8 ptr, he showed up 2 days in a row on camera, third day guy I know got in the stand about 20 minutes before the the buck was showing up and killed him within a minute of when he had went through with a bow. It was in October. Personally that is something I have no care for. Happy for him, great buck, especially for a bow kill, but not something I would do or try to do.

I know of a few other instances that has happened, one is a buck that TV hunter killed that measured in the 200's. The guide carried me to the spot where the buck was killed. I asked him about the story of the kill, he said the buck showed up 4 days in a row in the same spot at the same time, the TV hunter showed up, paid a pile of money, got in the stand about 30 minutes before the buck had been coming through and shot the buck when came through on the 5th day at the same time. Nope, not for me. The guide, who is a great hunter for sure, laughed and said the TV hunter was bragging about how great a hunter he was. It was a free range whitetail, but not my type of hunting, no doubt the camera can be a good "killer" at times.

 

[Ski]

What exactly is it you want to get from these conversations? I'm not ignoring you. I'm not refusing to talk to you. But I also couldn't care less how great a hunter you are or whether you use cams or not. I've asked you a dozen times to validate your argument but all you ever mention is that you know a guy, or you have friends, you heard something, and those people are always great hunters, guides, or outfitters. It's never your own personal first hand experience.

When some of us are sharing notes and info that we've gathered from trail cams, it's all about sharing and learning from one another. We're nerdy & friendly and enjoy having an open book conversation with like minds. I talk my wife's ear off but it's boring because she doesn't know how to respond or even care about deer hunting. It's kinda nice when somebody converses with their own experiences. But when somebody chimes in only to dispel cameras and belittle those of us who use them as if we're lesser or lazy, it's a buzz kill. Folks tend to ignore that guy.

 

[BSK]

Folks tend to ignore that guy.

Is that why all I see is a green stripe?

 

[RockMcL]

I use cameras some years and don't other years. I enjoy or at least learn from both sides of the argument and there is meat for both sides if you choose to digest it.

I choose cameras this year since a broke fence let a bunch of cattle destroy my historic mineral spots and stomped out my "path plots". Totally changing my deer patterns and resdent numbers.. Couple that with a new neighbor (hunting only) on one side and a generation change on another side (hunting only) and a burning desire to prosecute a particular trespasser/thief and it makes sense this year.

My cameras are not set up optimal this year and that is on me. There are tricks to making cameras less noticeable to deer, bobcats & coyotes. Maybe that is a good thread for someone who cares to start.

I personally have never patterned a buck to the point where I was sure where he would be at a specific time. Experience on my land and wind/weather/outside pressures all go into planning the hunts. I am an OK hunter, nothing to bragg about and am thankful for every deer. I have made plans that worked and plans that have not but still the family is finishing last years last deer and have one from this year below it in the freezer.
We do not raise beef and rarely buy it outside a steak house.

All that said whether ground blind, sitting on stump, or up a tree, if near a camera I am always set for #1 or #2 to be ghosting around the camera. 2-3 year olds sometimes ghost them too particularly on years like this when I have the cameras set up lower for convenience...

Thank you all for your input.
I continue to be slow but trainable...

 

[Ski]

I personally have never patterned a buck to the point where I was sure where he would be at a specific time.

Me neither, not inside the same season a pic was taken. But that's not why i run cameras. Nothing on this year's cameras will factor in to how or where I hunt this year. Of course I enjoy seeing what is or isn't on camera, but I have to look back at previous years to help interpret what I'm seeing this year.

For instance, for the last 3yrs in a row I have caught on cam the frenzy of an estrous doe in one particular area, on November 8th. It's like clockwork. Bucks are all over that spot all day. Two of those years I was on stand watching it in person and tagged a buck. This year whether it's her or one of her sisters or daughters, I'm betting my odds of seeing a parade of bucks chasing a doe under that stand on Nov 8th are pretty darn good. I have no idea which bucks it'll be or even if I'll want any of them. But I have little doubt I'll see an estrous chase that day.

Another example is scrapes. I've noticed that a very high percentage of bucks hitting scrapes in daylight were doing so while the wind dies to nothing as it changes 180* direction due to a front. If not for overlaying years of trail cam info, I'd have never picked out that common denominator. My cams watch those scrapes 24/7, something I cannot personally do.

That is the kind of stuff I'm running cams for. I'm not trying to pattern a singular buck to know when he farts. I'm looking for generalities that teach me about deer behavior, why they do what they do. It's a lifelong study. I enjoy it probably more than I do actually hunting, and I really love hunting.

 

[RockMcL]

Me neither, not inside the same season a pic was taken. But that's not why i run cameras. Nothing on this year's cameras will factor in to how or where I hunt this year. Of course I enjoy seeing what is or isn't on camera, but I have to look back at previous years to help interpret what I'm seeing this year.

For instance, for the last 3yrs in a row I have caught on cam the frenzy of an estrous doe in one particular area, on November 8th. It's like clockwork. Bucks are all over that spot all day. Two of those years I was on stand watching it in person and tagged a buck. This year whether it's her or one of her sisters or daughters, I'm betting my odds of seeing a parade of bucks chasing a doe under that stand on Nov 8th are pretty darn good. I have no idea which bucks it'll be or even if I'll want any of them. But I have little doubt I'll see an estrous chase that day.

Another example is scrapes. I've noticed that a very high percentage of bucks hitting scrapes in daylight were doing so while the wind dies to nothing as it changes 180* direction due to a front. If not for overlaying years of trail cam info, I'd have never picked out that common denominator. My cams watch those scrapes 24/7, something I cannot personally do.

That is the kind of stuff I'm running cams for. I'm not trying to pattern a singular buck to know when he farts. I'm looking for generalities that teach me about deer behavior, why they do what they do. It's a lifelong study. I enjoy it probably more than I do actually hunting, and I really love hunting.

Excellent.
"It's a lifelong study. I enjoy it probably more than I do actually hunting, and I really love hunting."

The harvest is important to me because I choose to directly manage the resource but like you (and I hope most on this forum) observing and learning about deer is one of my great pleasures in life.

Like so much in our lives some knowledge & insights must be earned by personal study & experience.

I am lifting a glass of Tennessee spring water in toast to us all learning & enjoying more about the whitetail.
(actual spring water by the way)

 

[exarcherman]

Easier said than done, especially on public grounds. One farm I hunt is 150acres and even there I have no control over which bucks survive. Neighbors kill whatever is legal. Time and time again I've let good up and comers live to see what they can become, only for them to fall to a neighbor. That's as much control as most of us have. On public ground, even that is gone.

You can't kill a big one if there are none there... I like to take deer & they don't have to be big.. couple yrs ago i let 2 different bucks walk & heard them shot just as they crossed the ridge... But,, you have to start somewhere.. If you want a buck,, take it.. if you want a big one, let the small ones walk,, It might just make it.. It for sure won't if you kill it.. one or 2 yrs makes a big difference if the genetics are good.. otherwise don't expect much.. enjoy what you have or search for "greener pastures" so to speak... I don't think Tn. is a major producer of P&Y or B&C deer.. My friends that take big ones regulary do so in Western Kentucky, West Tn. near LBL or Ohio (which has much public land with big deer)... I mostly stay at home these days..... & enjoy hunting just as much as ever! I've taken around 50 deer in my life & a few really nice ones., only one "book" deer.. Hunting is still fun & this is at least my 45th year of deer hunting,, & if i see a deer and want it,, i take it..... Not everyone trophy hunts nor should be expected to...