Something to think about....sorry for the length

Hunter 257W

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I keep hearing hunters talk about how it was so easy in the past to get permission to hunt. When I asked for permission to hunt private land, all I ever heard was "NO NO NO" when I started hunting in the mid to late 1970's in Franklin county. There were a few public land spots and of course AEDC was nearby but you had to get drawn for a 2 day hunt and typically only got one of those per year. I personally see a lot less resistance and negativity towards hunting coming from non-hunters now than back then. I practically never get teased about shooting "Bambi" anymore. In the 1970's, 80's and even 90's almost every non-hunter would make some "Bambi" comment as soon as they found out you hunted. I think that hunters main "ace in the hole" is the deer's ability to adapt and reproduce no matter what humans throw at them. High deer numbers means a corresponding high amount of flowers, yard trees and gardens eaten by the deer. In my experience the "Bambi" lovers make a full 180 degree turn about when the deer start tearing up their plants. When the deer start to cost them money and work, hunting becomes OK. :) The only risk here is as Steverino said above. A lot of these people will want to hire "Experts" - whatever that is - to humanely kill the deer rather than just regular ol' hunters that they (non-hunters) might see as slobs who aren't as capable of quickly eliminating the deer. It's important that we try our best to avoid that image.
 

Brisco Darlin

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very good post. I have gotten a little disgusted over the years with the way hunting has turned. I started out in the 70's and granted we have way more deer now but it was more about the times with friends and family and everyone wasn't always trying to outdo each other and down others for their kills. I have killed a few nice bucks but for the majority anymore I consider myself strictly a meat hunter. I can appreciate how you handled the lady's questions. I was one of those way back in the day in your face blood and gore with a deer strapped over the hood of my jeep. I did have something happen one time when I was in my early 20's. a van pulled up beside me and the man and woman start flipping me a bird and pointing at the deer. I wasn't as tactful as I guess I am now. I gave them a big wad of bloodhound chewing tobacco splattered on the windshield of their minivan.
 

J_W

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Great thread. I've been having the same concerns about the future of hunting as TNDeerGuy. In my opinion, we as hunters have enough challenges in preserving our future between loss of access, increasing expense, etc without the declining population percentage of hunters. I wish all hunters realized how we as a whole are perceived by non-hunters, and cared enough about the next generation of hunters to positively contribute to the cause.
Anyone interested in hearing a wonderful dialogue on the issue should check out Randy Newburg's HuntTalk podcast episode #4. In it is enlightening historical perspective on our obsession with trophies and the connection that heads on our walls these days has with our past. Absolute best way to exercise your mind while butchering your next kill!
 

mike243

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Yep I posted this years ago,its happening every day in every state.there is no stopping it,Trophy management will beat out all the folks who #1 cant pay the price #2 who wont pay the price and #3 the folks who have no where to hunt besides public land. The government will keep on cutting hunting out on tracts that have been hunted on for ever. Don't worry about the length of your post,most will forget about it till their lease price gets so high they cant afford it :(
 

redblood

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i don't like the idea of any hunter being dependent on the next generation of land owner. Todays hunter should be the next generation landowner. as long as middle class hunters (like 99% on here) continue too buy monster new trucks, new 4 utvs, boats, new iPhone 28's, and eat out 4 nights a week at El Colon Blow Casa Mexican Restaurant, they will be enslaved to the next generation of landowners. It is time to take control of your future and put your money into something that guarantees a future in your sport and in your long term prosperity......LAND. time to quit whining and do it.
 

J_W

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redblood":2o9t3lxd said:
i don't like the idea of any hunter being dependent on the next generation of land owner. Todays hunter should be the next generation landowner. as long as middle class hunters (like 99% on here) continue too buy monster new trucks, new 4 utvs, boats, new iPhone 28's, and eat out 4 nights a week at El Colon Blow Casa Mexican Restaurant, they will be enslaved to the next generation of landowners. It is time to take control of your future and put your money into something that guarantees a future in your sport and in your long term prosperity......LAND. time to quit whining and do it.

Hard to argue with that outlook when discussing hunting access here in Tennessee. However, that mentality doesn't translate to big game hunting the west. Practically none of us could afford to purchase enough land to support a herd of elk... and for those who say that they'll never elk hunt anyway, you need to realize that the general non-hunting public doesn't distinguish between hunting. If we give them reason to turn away from us they will turn away from us all.
 

redblood

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J_W":1pn3ohcx said:
redblood":1pn3ohcx said:
i don't like the idea of any hunter being dependent on the next generation of land owner. Todays hunter should be the next generation landowner. as long as middle class hunters (like 99% on here) continue too buy monster new trucks, new 4 utvs, boats, new iPhone 28's, and eat out 4 nights a week at El Colon Blow Casa Mexican Restaurant, they will be enslaved to the next generation of landowners. It is time to take control of your future and put your money into something that guarantees a future in your sport and in your long term prosperity......LAND. time to quit whining and do it.

Hard to argue with that outlook when discussing hunting access here in Tennessee. However, that mentality doesn't translate to big game hunting the west. Practically none of us could afford to purchase enough land to support a herd of elk... and for those who say that they'll never elk hunt anyway, you need to realize that the general non-hunting public doesn't distinguish between hunting. If we give them reason to turn away from us they will turn away from us all.

i was referencing hunting in TN
 

AT Hiker

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Western public lands are a whole other topic imo, most of which is federally owned but being sought after for state ownership and/or private ownership. Join Rocky Mountain Elk foundation to start the preservation process, its a start.


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Winchester

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Good post, and hunter #'s are declining drastically based on % of the population! Sure we have as many hunters now as we did 20 yrs ago, but our population has increased by Millions while hunter #'s have not. I also agree its the Non hunters that need to be won over whenever possible. They will eventually pick a side and this sports future depends on us hunters swaying them to our side. Trophy hunting and belittling of those who don't conform has NO place in the public eye!
 

AT Hiker

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Winchester":1l2vix29 said:
Trophy hunting and belittling of those who don't conform has NO place in the public eye!

Just as those that openly post on forums and social media that they are going to shoot deer just for spite. Everyone must play the positive role that is so vital to the preservation of our heritage.


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Winchester

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AT Hiker":27f0or4b said:
Winchester":27f0or4b said:
Trophy hunting and belittling of those who don't conform has NO place in the public eye!

Just as those that openly post on forums and social media that they are going to shoot deer just for spite. Everyone must play the positive role that is so vital to the preservation of our heritage.


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I agree 100% live and let live and the world would be much better off! Hunters should unite instead of being our own worst enemies!
 

Ron Dietz

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Well no where in the bible does it condemn hunting.
In fact Peter was commanded to kill and eat.
Meaning also that Gentiles were acceptable if they repented through faith in Jesus Christ and receive the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

If someone questions my hunting, I'd ask where in scripture it's condemned.
and if they don't know. I'd use the above verses to share my faith.

Nowadays a lot of people express their personal preferences and those "preferences" become their "Gods".
 

Poleaxe

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To say that the price to hunt hasn't increased over the years is like saying the cost of living hasn't increased the past 25yrs. Everyone around here sees a decline in hunters. Those big farms that the old farmers used to let anyone hunt are mostly all dead and gone and the farms split up and sold off. The thousands of acres of bowater are gone. I'm not complaining. I knock on hundreds of doors and have alot of free land but others aren't as fortunate.

My biggest thing about where hunting has gone is the antlers. It's like a Peter measuring contest. I love my tndeer family but I got fed up with mature this or score that. I've had a great season but keeping it to myself and not post about it with the exception of my son's pics and a one evening shootout. That's why I don't care to watch hunting shows anymore. Why can't people go out and have a good time and hug and high five your buddy if he killed a 4pt? I'll keep enjoying my passion my way and keep sharing with my friends and my family.

Great post Andy.
 

Brisco Darlin

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Poleaxe":aroqxny3 said:
To say that the price to hunt hasn't increased over the years is like saying the cost of living hasn't increased the past 25yrs. Everyone around here sees a decline in hunters. Those big farms that the old farmers used to let anyone hunt are mostly all dead and gone and the farms split up and sold off. The thousands of acres of bowater are gone. I'm not complaining. I knock on hundreds of doors and have alot of free land but others aren't as fortunate.

My biggest thing about where hunting has gone is the antlers. It's like a Peter measuring contest. I love my tndeer family but I got fed up with mature this or score that. I've had a great season but keeping it to myself and not post about it with the exception of my son's pics and a one evening shootout. That's why I don't care to watch hunting shows anymore. Why can't people go out and have a good time and hug and high five your buddy if he killed a 4pt? I'll keep enjoying my passion my way and keep sharing with my friends and my family.

Great post Andy.
well said
 

fishboy1

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Warren Co
Awesome post.

First off I have no problem with trophy hunting or brown is down hunting AS LONG AS it is done legally and with respect for the animals and other hunters.

My concern with the trophy hunting culture is that it has picked up an element of fascism in that if you aren't on the trophy team, then you are wrong and must be corrected. I think most of this is commercially driven and is KILLING hunter image with the non hunting majority.

If you look at hunting culture trends over the last 20 years, it has gone from a mainstream culture of "getting into the woods with family and friends trying to kill a deer" to "gotta get a whopper" as the main trend. Yes you still have meat hunters but the middle of the bell curve has shifted in the trophy direction.

That by itself is not necessarily a bad thing, and I think this is where a lot of hunters on here support it. I mean if we have more deer than ever, whats wrong with hunters upping their desires/expectations on bucks a bit to match the increased opportunity ? Nothing wrong with that.

The problem comes when that goes too far and antlers become the sole focus and people start feeling greed, envy, disappointment, and competitiveness toward other hunters. Comments like, "he would have been a good one next year", "he wasn't mature" "scrub buck", "cull buck" "just a spike" "only 2.5yr old" or any other negative term makes hunters LOOK like they don't respect the animals they hunt and kill, to the non hunting public. It makes us LOOK like hunters only care about horns, ego, and bragging. And lets face it, nobody likes a braggart.... boom.... a non hunter just moved toward being an anti-hunter.

With the focus on antlers, commercial interests will pile on and market their products to a willing customer base. NOW we have a real opportunity for a PR mess. #1 rule in advertising.... GET NOTICED. So companies use huge bucks in their advertising, language that promotes bigger and bigger bucks to the point that NOBODY is talking about the intangibles of deer hunting anymore but EVERYBODY is talking about big racked bucks. Even the hunting shows & commercials are using heavy metal music in the back ground....?? I have never been on a deer hunt in real life and thought...."Gee a heavy metal sound track would fit the quiet peaceful woods perfectly" Nobody is selling "buy our product, runty spikes and scraggly bucks love it! "

How does that look to non hunters? That only huge racked bucks have value?? Hunting shows with heavy metal music showing whopper bucks being shot, ads pushing products for big racks, and then the host moves on to another show in another state and kills Another big racked buck. To the non hunting public, hunting APPEARS to be all about big racks and bragging rights. Remember, they are not in the woods watching the chipmunks, sunrises, and birds, they only see the commercialized media....THAT is their reality.

So....what is the long term trend?
Think about WHO all this marketing is going to attract into the sport ?
Think about the effect this commercialization frenzy is going to have on the opinions of VOTING non hunters.
Think about the effects of commercialization on the hunting culture and experience.

My beef is not with trophy hunting.... my beef is with the commercialize at all costs and the effects on the culture be darned attitude we have been suckered into participating in. Its with the black eye commercialization gives the image of hunting to non hunters, and its with the hunters who jump on the band wagon and belittle other hunters and who perpetuate this negative stereotype of hunters.

I salute any hunter who can have a quiet, rational conversation with a non- or anti- hunter and explain the intangibles of hunting and that its NOT only about horns. :tu: :tu: That is how you turn a non hunter into somebody who supports hunting even if they don't personally hunt.
 

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