Something to think about....sorry for the length

TNDeerGuy

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Old Hickory/Mt.Juliet, TN
I want to share a thought with the group and I apologize in advance for the length—it is a tad long. It is no secret that I was, and still am, against the changing of the buck limit, but that really isn't what this post is going to be about and I certainly don't wish for it to turn to yet another debate over the issue. Instead, I wish that it creates a thought-provoking look into the future of the sport/pastime that we all love.

I have started to post this several times since this incident occurred, but found myself deleting it before I finished. You see, it is epiphany of sorts this incident was and it left my thoughts stirring in my head for days after. I ran into a friend over a week ago at a local gas station that had just killed a doe and had her strapped to the roof of his crossover suv and we were sharing stories and just enjoying the companionship that is our sport. All of a sudden a middle-aged lady comes walking up to us carrying her cup of half-gone Starbucks, wearing her LL Bean Beanie, Lands End boots and North Face fleece and asked nicely if we were hunters—obviously knowing the answer as we were standing beside a suv with blood streaks going down the side of it, from the body on top, and us wearing our camo. I politely answered "yes ma'am" to her, thinking silently "oh God, here it comes—get your thinking cap on". She then asked in a very polite manner, "why do we kill such beautiful animals?" and I offered her the only response I could, and honest on, "because I eat them and it is a healthier alternative to anything at Publix." She agreed that was fair and honest but then she got to the crux of what I knew she was ultimately digging for, and one that comes up all the time, "do you put what you kill on the wall so you can be proud of it and show it off?" I gave her another honest answer, "yes ma'am I do, but only after I use everything else". I explained to her that hunting to me, and to a significant portion of hunters, isn't about the killing, that is the last thing and a bonus. It is about the hunt and everything that goes with it! I don't have to kill to have a successful hunt and many times don't shoot and instead just watch and enjoy the deer. A successful hunt is seeing the sunrise through the trees or watching it set, hearing the woods come to life, watching the squirrels bounce around (even though I so often want to 10-86 a few of them :) ), hearing an eagle cry and watching a hawk soar, those times you share with family and friends and getting back home to enjoy your family at the end of the day—that is a successful hunt. She was moved and explained that she wasn't against hunters, she just didn't agree with it and didn't understand why we only kill to put the head on the wall because of its antlers. I explained in detail how the whole thing works and to most it is never about the size of the rack, knowing that was sort of a gray area. However, at the end of our conversation she thanked me and congratulated my friend on his success and she said that if she had land, we would be welcome to come out anytime.

Understand this, she is the majority—she is a member of the non-hunting portion of the population. Notice I said non-hunting, not anti-hunting. The non-hunting part of our population makes up the largest percentage of the entire population and they control the largest amount of the land;however, that group is by far not the loudest, instead they are often too silent. They do not understand what hunting is and do not care by in large. To them we are a bunch of blood-thirsty killers that only hunt so we can brag and put antlers on the wall—they don't understand that it is so much deeper than that. They are affected and see the same advertisements and shows that we see on social media, print media and T.V.. The only thing is that they don't know, nor understand, what they are looking at and don't care because they are turned off because of big antlers and the killing of big antlers is what our sport focuses on—their perception is their reality.

Now I'm going to get to the point! I'm blessed, and cursed I guess, to have hunted the woods of Tennessee for more than 3 decades and I've seen drastic changes over the years. None more alarming than what I've witnessed over the last decade though. When I started, finding land to hunt on was almost harder to find places that you couldn't hunt! You could get a bowater permit for a few bucks and hunt various 10's of thousands of acres, just go knock on a door and most anyone would say, "sure...go ahead"—heck you could just find a strip of woods and walk in, most didn't care.

Fast forward to today: the State is not getting anymore public land (if you do find public land, it is often terribly and dangerously over-crowded), you have to ask dozens or hundreds of people to get one yes or you have to join an expensive hunting lease—and some of these leases are ridiculously over-charged! Deer hunting is becoming a rich-man's sport plain and simple! It has changed so much in such a relatively short period of time in cost and there is no end in sight to the increase of the cost or decrease of the land! We are cutting our noses off, in spite of our faces. More importantly, we are cutting the next generation's nose off of their faces....the only thing we are passing down to them is much higher hunting costs and very much reduced hunting land as our population continues to grow and sprawl.

That lady I spoke with, and the others like her, are the landowners the next generation of hunters will be dependent on as the source of hunting land and we as a community must do our part to propagate an image that is beneficial to that growth of obtaining more private land. They see us as a whole only caring about the trophy killing, even though that is a minimal reason for most of us. Look at the comments all of you have seen about the cheerleader on the African hunt and Melissa Bachman's kills and these are women—the comments are always negative about the trophy, it's never about the hunting, but always the trophy and it being on a wall. As I previously stated—their perception, is their reality and they will not let us or the next generation on their land if they believe that hunting for a trophy is our goal and if they do let them on their land it is gonna cost so much it will not be feasible. In full disclosure though, they will not let us on their land if they see us with fawns either. They don't see deer through inches, they see deer as a deer and they do not understand the biology (and honestly don't care) and will never understand our sport and it's really hard to change someone's mindset when you have people and an industry that has become driven by inches of a buck's antlers.

If you want a glimpse into the future of our sport in 50 years, look at Europe! By in large, only the extreme upper-class elite can hunt in Europe and Europeans have hunted for far longer than we have! Hard-working, middle-class Joe European can forget it. What is shameful is that it took a Starbucks drinking yuppie, that pre-judged me just as I had done to her, to make me come to that conclusion of where we had come from, where we are at, where we are going and the effects of our actions on the next generation that will desire and is entitled to experience the same beauty that each of us get to enjoy now every time we step foot into the woods and fields of Tennessee.

Sorry for the length, I just wanted to get that off of my chest!
 

Bgbuckhntr84

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Aug 13, 2015
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Mcminn county TN
Awesome read...and some hunters less classy than yourself could have easily swayed this lady towards the anti hunting group...I commend you sir on a job well done on behalf of other hunters!!!!!
 

ImThere

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Aug 24, 2006
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Lewisburg, Tn
Very well said and you had a tough job ahead of you with a dead doe strapped on top of a SUV. You done well.
I've had a young lady call me a f'n redneck and say I was what was wrong with America today. I've had people thank me for doing something about the deer population. I have noticed most people simply don't understand anything about hunting or why we hunt.

Kudos to you and I hope others take heed and have conversations when asked as you did

the one and only "ImThere"
 

CDUB

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Jul 16, 2013
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163
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Sequatchie Co.
I think that perception is growing more around the major cities and suburbs. The dangerous part is that they have the majority vote. The poor people in rural areas still hunt where ever they want and kill whatever they want. I believe they major thing protecting modern day hunting from state and federal law makers is the amount of money the middle class hunters are pumping into the economy. Hunters 100 yrs ago had boots, a gun, and bullets when going to the field. Now we carry more gear and gadgets than our utvs can haul some times. And the big game population is at an all time high with greater opportunity to get a wall hanger. No one trophy hunted years ago cause there weren't any trophies out there. I see a lot more positive aspects of modern hunting than negative and I don't think hunting laws will be changing any time soon. Just my 2 cents.
 

megalomaniac

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Mississippi
God gives us dominion over all animals on this earth. They were put here for our benefit, for us to use as we see fit as a resource. The flip side is that He also entrusts us to be good stewards of those animals... to ensure we only take what we need or want, and ONLY if it does not negatively affect the rest of the population. Animals weren't created for us to abuse, or hunt/kill into extinction. Because of this DIVINE RIGHT to use deer to my benefit, while not affecting the population as a whole, I choose to only kill enough does to keep the population stable, and to only kill a very small number of older bucks who have already lived several years. If you choose to hunt differently, that is your Divine as well, whether you realize it or not... so long as your hunting style does not negatively affect the rest of the herd.
 

JB1230

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Oct 10, 2009
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537
Location
Germantown, TN
I posted this a few weeks ago..I think we have similar views and agree.

"Congrats on the deer! This is just a quick "IMO".... As most know, the number of hunters has declined over the last several years nationwide and the reasons are numerous. Fewer hunters means fewer dollars to support hunting and fewer people to promote the cause that everyone here dearly loves. Driving home through traffic with a deer strapped like that for all to see doesn't help the cause. While we don't all agree with those opposed to hunting or more so those who are indifferent (which means their kids are as well), imo if we have the time to go hunting, shoot a deer and drag it out then we have 5 minutes to cover it up. I'm sure there were many in traffic who saw that deer strapped like that and said "OMG how awful!". Those are the same people we complain about (me included) about being anti-hunters. They may not be anti-hunters to begin with but there opinion starts to get swayed when they see things like that. A soccer mom with 4 young kids in the car seeing that will garner the response from the kids, "ewww" and mom will tell kids to look away, now probably have 4 kids who didn't hunt and probably won't going forward.. you can see how that snowballs. We need all on board to support hunting, getting hunting numbers back up and most importantly to not turn those who are indifferent to hunting (that's ok!) into anti-hunters. We are only a drop in the bucket on TNDeer but you can see how we can impact a lot of people by our actions. This is certainly no knock on the guys who killed the deer because I've done it myself and got home and thought "what was I thinking". I plan on shooting one or two this weekend and will have them inside my suburban on a tarp. Years ago I strapped one over the spare tire on my SUV because I had no room in back and happily drove through Germantown. Later that evening wife and I went to a party and while in a conversation with another couple and she started to tell the story about something awful she had seen that day with a dead deer on a car (mine) in traffic (small world?). She said she and her kids were completely disgusted and she even called the G'town PO. I didn't mention to the couple it was me but my wife said later "could you at least cover them up on the way home from hunting?" During conversation with couple I asked other lady what she thought and she said while none of her family hunted and they didn't mind hunting but seeing things like that made her rethink how she felt and said her 4 year old daughter started to tear up when they saw the deer. I did not feel good about it and have never carried a deer in view since.

I'm certainly no saint myself but I don't want to look up in 10 years and have to worry about the future of hunting or wildlife which is all impacted if we continue on the decline of new hunters. Yes, things are way to ***** PC these days but that's the world we live in. Congrats again on the deer and let's cover them up..It's people like us (tndeer) who can do the little things to promote and protect our passion of hunting. Knock'em down this weekend. Jeff
 

Good time Charlie

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On the river
Very good posts ...But the world I grew up in is nothing like today's.
When deer season rolled around in southern Michigan ,they would shut the schools down.
There were not that many deer in the lower part of the state.The hunters would plan a week long trip to Wampler's lake or further north.
It just seemed like everyone enjoyed deer hunting.Something has changed drastically not sure what .
This is a very good thread ,we have to take care of what we do have left.
 

landman

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Nov 15, 2009
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TN & Western KY
Sounds like you did a Great Job with the non hunter
I congratulate you for that.

But in going 46 years back in hunting when
Very few hunted, cause there wasn't deer to hunt,
mainly small game.

People seem to forget that the reason it's s rich
mans sport in Europe is that mainly forget
only the Rich owned the land. If you remember
you history lessons the first settlers where questioned
where they poachers for that game here, cause
it wasn't allowed in Europe and you were poaching
the Lords game.

Now fast forward, sure it's gotten harder to
find places to hunt private land, but it's mainly
to the increase of the human race. More PEOPLE
are here and more are hunting than what did in
the 70's and 80's. You saw very few kids hunting
back then, you sure didn't see shooting programs
in public schools like we have know. You didn't
see but one or 2 women hunting either, we
see it all the time about how 90% on here
HATE HUNTING SHOWS. That attitude needs
to change cause those shows agreeing with them
or not increase hunter numbers with the young
and females.

It is getting tufter to find free land, but it
costs much more to own and maintain it too,
why shouldn't a landowner see a return for
hunting rights? But most isn't leased it being
hunted for FREE by someone the landowner
personally knows.....

I know many will say my words are because
I sell land, but it's factual information I have given.
After 24 years in the business I'm seeing more
people my land just to hunt on the last 4 years
than the 20 before. Their not all RICH, true many
m buy 100's of acres, but more but less than
30-50 acres.

Sorry for going on, but your not going to stop
the increase for hunter numbers, is that a bad
thing?
 

AT Hiker

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Jul 3, 2011
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Location
Clarksville, Tennessee
Good thought provoking thread and one that we should all think about at some point.

Here are my thoughts;

There are laws in place to deter people from strictly hunting for antlers, think wanton waste. We should all do our part to help enforce it.

As for "trophies on the wall", its something that is almost as time honored as hunting itself. Its simply part of using every part/aspect of the animal we hunt. Whether it be rugs, leather, knife handles, dog bones, etc its all the same thing...a by-product of the hunt. The few bad apples of hunting (pure horn hunters that care only about the antlers/horns/etc) give it a bad stigma. Once again; stricter laws, higher fines and ALL of us doing our part will help. Why is it ok for antlers to be piled in a corner out of site but taboo to be nicely displayed for memories?

Educating the public is a must too, something I would like to see the states and its wildlife departments join forces in and get the FACTS out.

As for hunter numbers declining...not in my experience. Some areas could use a slight decline in hunter numbers or more public land available. I would love to see TN implement a access program funded by donations and tax incentives.

As for increased cost...not really. I choose to drop loads of money on items related to hunting but the actual hunt itself (if I chose this route) cost nothing more than a rifle, ammo, travel money, tags, knife, freezer paper and a lot of luck. Sure I spend loads of money on out of state hunting but why is that a bad thing? Thats money going into a local economy, a economy that is providing for someone and their family.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

southernhunter

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Sep 8, 2010
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alabama
Good post, I too wonder where the sport is headed in the future. On one said we are judged by the actions of the good old redneck boys that yell (if it's brown it's down) while shooting out the window of their pickup at deer on some else's land. Then on the other end we have the better than you Tv want to be guys that has the mentality he is the best hunter in the world because He can afford the fancy 4x4 , rifle , lease and thinks if you can't or don't choose to kill a 160" "mature" deer every year then you shouldn't be allowed to call yourself a hunter because you don't share thier view of ( size is all that matters) regardless of the cost or sacrifice. Over the last 25 years of hunting TN I have found my self on both sides. I thank the lord I had some good fellow hunters around that helped guide me over the years. Just because it's a deer don't mean it has to die and just because some chooses to shoot a yearling spike dosnt make them any less of a hunter. Imo both sides are at fault by tarnishing the sport and causing the non hunting group to look negatively at all hunters. As I type this now I am hunting and let a nice buck walk by. Why ? Because I been blessed and choose to. As I sit here alone in my stand today reading yalls post no deer that could possibly walk by can take my mind off my father. He's got to go to the doc today to schedule a life threatening surgery. I'd give any thing if I could just rewind the clock a week and we was back in the shooting house drinking coffee , eating candy , farting , laughing our butts off and not seeing a deer. Well at least that's what I think it's about and hope that's how I can and do portray it to the non hunting community.
 

Bone Collector

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Sep 9, 2009
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19,653
Location
Murfreesboro, TN
Great Post. I am not going to read any of the rebuttals if there are any, but will add this. I work in corporate America with a lot of these people. their perception is spot on with what TNDeerGuy said. They think hunting today is all about sport and trophies. Often time if it does come up and you tell them you are hunting for meat and that you only care about big antlers if they happen to walk by, they will say that is "not so bad" and they understand, if you are eating it, but all of them see hunting shows, some actually watch them for a while and guess what hunting shows are about..... BIG ANTLERS.

most of those shows are in TX too and they have corn out, so that is their perception. the think we put corn out and only shoot deer with big antlers and put the head on the wall.

Would you be for that, if you never hunted a day in your life and didn't care to? I don't think I would...
 

Steverino

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Jul 1, 2013
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4,361
Location
Giles Co
Being originally from the Peoples Republic of CT we had few deer when I grew up. That has completely changed and now they are a nuisance in some areas of the state. Which by the way is heavily populated. The rich there hire bow hunters because bambi and friends are chewing up their 2000.00 oriental bushes around the mansions. In some cases the towns near the gold coast have brought in exterminators against the wishes of the large PETA and Friends of Animals groups there .

Hunting is in decline there. Its kind of hard to enjoy hunting when you have women walking their dogs in the WMA while you're out with a muzzle loader - BTW she came in wearing a deer skin jacket and walking a brown and white dog. How is that for a recipe for disaster. I approached her and explained it was deer season and she asked if we had shotguns - I said no its muzzle loader season - she said and I quote "oh good, shotguns I'm afraid of but not muzzle loaders". I didn't want to debate with her they'll both kill you dead just as easily. So I remembered and extra orange coat in my jeep and took her back there and told her to wear it - when thru with her walk just put it under the jeep. That worked and she thanked me. She also marveled on the feel of the coat and said she'd buy one for next year. Ive had people walking dogs there while I'm turkey hunting.

Today its even harder to hunt - you need a background check - long rifle or pistol permit to buy ammunition there. No permit - no shells. Out of state hunters really liked that when they drove to Cabelas to buy some ammo. But the governor stated he didn't want CT to be known for its guns. (maybe just criminal politicians and free stuff)
 

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