Round Ball or Conical?

[Hickory Nut]

I would really appreciate some opinions on muzzleloading projectiles. I've got a replica .45 cal. plains rifle (Traditions) with a 1:48" twist. I've always shot patched round balls at the range and have not hunted much with this rifle. I want to use it during the upcomming muzzleloading season and would like to try some of the newer projectiles. Would anyone have some adive on a good choice?

 

[BSK]

Here's my opinion that won't be popular with the inliners or the traditionalists. DON'T hunt with round-balls (I've seen many deer lost to round-balls)--they don't have the penetrating power. Don't use sabotted pistol bullets. Use heavy full-diameter lead conicals in a 1:48 twist gun, like T/C MaxiHunters and Maxi-Balls (or Buffalo Bullets or any of the full-diameter lead conicals).

 

[smokin]

How many deer do you think was killed with a patched round ball? Before the invention of modern day ammo. Everything from squirrels to buffalo.

 

[Matador]

know your gun and load, know your limits, most of all know where to hit em!!!!

Very good advice!

 

[Matador]

Here's my opinion that won't be popular with the inliners or the traditionalists. DON'T hunt with round-balls (I've seen many deer lost to round-balls)--they don't have the penetrating power. Don't use sabotted pistol bullets. Use heavy full-diameter lead conicals in a 1:48 twist gun, like T/C MaxiHunters and Maxi-Balls (or Buffalo Bullets or any of the full-diameter lead conicals).

Yeah, but they are legal. As has already been said, you have to know your rifle,loads, and limits. Probably more deer lost with arrows than roundballs.

 

[BSK]

I said it wouldn't be popular!

I've watched patched round-balls not penetrate through a broadside deer way too many times, even at fairly close range.

 

[Hawkeye5]

I've killed several deer with a ball. Most of the time the ball is found on the off side right under the skin, so my experience is as BSK suggests: full penetration is not the norm unless the deer is very close.
The ball I use expands to about the size of a quarter. I had one weighed at Hunt's, back when Mr. Hunt was still the owner, and it had lost very little weight. I carry one of those expanded balls for good luck (hey, who knows?).
This is using a .50 Jack Garner semi custom flinter with 90 grains FFF (the most accurate load). Now that I have glasses and can use irons again, I will go back to using this great rifle.
I would agree that many more deer are not recovered with arrows than round balls.
While rifles that shoot round balls (accurately) may be underpowered by today's standards, shot placement is the key, not penetration. You can blow through a deer with a 7MM Mag, but if it was a gut shot, you might not recover the deer. Shoot a deer through the boiler room with a round ball and it is your's, full penetration or not.

 

[FULLDRAWXX75]

I will agree 100% with Hawkeye5,

I have taken a few with a round ball also, here is a pic of one before and after. The after was found while skinning a doe, opposite shoulder between meat and hide. 75 yd shot, .54 cal w/90gr FFF.

The ball is half as thick and over twice as round now.


FDXX75

PS: That deer only went 30 yds.

 

[BSK]

If it doesn't go all the way through, I'm not shooting it. I've seen bucks shot with a round-ball in the chest that were lost in late evening shooting situations.

No full penetration; no blood trail; potentially lost deer.

 

[FULLDRAWXX75]

I can respect that BSK, I to have seen deer shot with many different weapon, not recovered. More with a bow than any other.

Like Hawkeye5 stated, shot placement is very important no matter what you are using.

FDXX75

 

[BSK]

I can respect that BSK, I to have seen deer shot with many different weapon, not recovered. More with a bow than any other.

I couldn't agree more FDXX75, that's why I quit bow-hunting. I just have a hard time dealing with a lost deer.

That said, any weapon and any shot placement can result in a lost deer. Bullets and arrows do funny things when they hit flesh and bone. Sometimes a weapon and projectile combination that has always proved deadly produces some bizarre result and a deer is lost.

Like Hawkeye5 stated, shot placement is very important no matter what you are using.

I couldn't agree more. However, when I see a projectile that results in lost and nearly lost deer, repeatedly, I shy away from it. That's why I stopped using the 295 grn and lighter Powerbelt bullets. Five deer hit with them--some at point-blank range broadside--and five deer nearly lost because of no blood-trail. I've moved up to the 405 grn Powerbelts, and now I get full penetration every time and good blood-trails.

I'll be the first to admit I'm biased about MZ bullet sellection because I began using MZs when the only options available were round-balls or big lead conicals. I found I could rely on the conicals for full pass-throughs but not the round-balls. Now in today's world of inlines (which I use) and sabotted pistol bullets, I still find myself relying on the old idea of throwing the biggest, heaviest chunk of hardened lead I can find. I want bone-crushing penetration. I realize some of the new inlines can throw smaller pistol bullets almost fast enough to cause "knock-down" shocking power, similar to a modern rifle. But I still see an MZ as a weapon that kills by knocking the biggest hole possible all the way through a deer. So I use bullets I know will do that from any angle (including end-to-end) and come out the other side.

I want blood-loss, and I want it outside the body on both sides!

 

[FULLDRAWXX75]

Hickory,

We did kinda stray away from your original guestion, r/b or conical?

I have taken deer with r/b, (.54 cal) if you choose to go with a modern sabot you will sacrific size and energy of the bullet. Starting with a .45 cal to begin with.

As BSK has stated, a full lead conical may be your better choice for that rifle.

FDXX75

 

[CHRIS WILSON]

With a .45 caliber, I'd shoot a decent weight conical. Round balls for a .45 are small, light weight rascals. Save the .45 round balls for small game or coyotes.

 

[BSK]

Interesting stuff Renegade50. I too think shot placement is absolutely critical, but I've seen round-balls hang on the skin on the opposite side of a broadside chest hit, and little blood came from the entrance wound, producing an extremely hard-to-find deer in the dark.

 

[GRAMPS]

I have killed deer with both the round ball and concial. Like BSK, I prefer a heavy conical. I like to blast a hole all the way thru.

 

[BSK]

then again we got to throw the equation of rate of twist into it also for different projectile useage, it is a trial with weapon charges and projectiles and hopefully not error thing out in the woods because of lack of homework so to speak not being done. which alot of inexperienced hunters with muzzleloaders have been known to do when they 1st start out.

Isn't that the truth! MZs are definitely trial and error guns.

 

[Greenhead]

Hickory Nut. Try www.whiterifles.com. Doc White has produced some awesome guns. All his rifles are designed to shoot heavy slugs. You can order his bullets online. Roger Raglin shot his stuff for years.
As you know if its good enough for Roger, its good enough for anybody.
I have some heavy slugs I would give you, but they are .50 cal.
If anyone is interested they are the White super slugs. No idea what weight. PM me if you want them.

 

[Hickory Nut]

Thanks for the good advice. Above all, I want to make a clean kill. I've still got a couple of weeks to try some new projectiles and see how I like them.

 

[jakeway]

Back to your original question, how deep are the groove sin your rifle? My really good shooting patched ball rifles have very deep grooves, so I can use thick pillow ticking patches. Some, if not most, conicals need slightly shallower or wider grooves to get a goodgas seal.

1 in 48" also is a bit fast for some round ball rifles, though it can be done. Mine are 1:60".

The TC Maxiball was designed for their Hawken rifles, qhich if I'm not mistaken, have 1:48" twist and relatively shallow grooves.

 

[Old Timer]

As some may know, I am a proponent of the patched roundball for deer-sized and smaller ML game.
Why? I began hunting with MLs in the early '70s and every deer I've taken since then has been taken with the patched roundball. I've never lost a deer known to have been hit. I've never had one travel much over 100 yds. and the majority have gone down within sight. For me and the way I hunt I'd say that's about as lethal as it gets. That isn't to say that would be true for everyone. I have also not had any problem getting full penetration using moderate loads. However I do not expect good blood trails with roundballs. Due to a color vision problem, it is very dificult to identify even a great bloodtrail (except maybe on snow); so this is not a real issue for me. I much prefer just walking over to the dead deer in any case.

The big advantage the roundball has over other projectiles is lack of expense. Using full power roundball loads and loose powder can be almost as cheap as shooting .22 RF. This allows a person of modest means to do a great deal more shooting for practice, tayloring loads, and small game. A man that can confidently take small game and/or varments with his ML is likely to find deer a slam-dunk.

The first deer my Son took hunting entirely on his own was taken with a .45 roundball over 60grs. Pyrodex.