Food Plots Rocky food plot soils

[BSK]

I've talked many times on this Forum about how rocky my food plots are. But I don't think many realize just how rocky. As an example, see the picture below, and know this ground has already been tilled 6-8" deep, twice. Yet it still looks like that (one of my newly bulldozed plots).

So far, I have found no easy answer to working with these "soils," other than time. Growing anything that produces a lot of biomass and then mow it down. Keep doing that year after year, and eventually you have some actual soil to work with. The second picture is one of my older plots. I've been mowing and mowing and mowing biomass into that plot for about 15 years to get it to look like that.

 

[Mcboom]

Wow. Looks like you started with a creek bed.

 

[megalomaniac]

I still think you are hurting yourself with tilling the ground.... especially if you get any run off and lose any valuable dirt, or wind blow off dirt. If you could get a really good stand of summer biomass annually, I bet you could have a full inch of topsoil in just 5 years... but its going to be a LONG process.

I have 3 acres that looks like that (except no big chunk rocks). It's still the worst performing plot I have, but every year it gets a little better (3rd summer planting this year).

The biggest problem with no layer of topsoil is that greminatung/ growing conditions have to be almost PERFECT to have a chance at any significant production. Go 3 w without rain, and the plot is lost

 

[BSK]

I still think you are hurting yourself with tilling the ground.... especially if you get any run off and lose any valuable dirt, or wind blow off dirt. If you could get a really good stand of summer biomass annually, I bet you could have a full inch of topsoil in just 5 years... but its going to be a LONG process.

Yes it will. But it will take longer than 5 years. Where I took that picture had 12-foot-tall Sunn Hemp growing in it last summer, but even that hasn't gotten much organic matter into the soil yet.

I have 3 acres that looks like that (except no big chunk rocks). It's still the worst performing plot I have, but every year it gets a little better (3rd summer planting this year).

Just a little better each year. Continuous applications of lime and fertilizer. And lots and lots of incorporating biomass into the soil.

The biggest problem with no layer of topsoil is that greminatung/ growing conditions have to be almost PERFECT to have a chance at any significant production. Go 3 w without rain, and the plot is lost

Correct. Those soils hold no water, especially if they haven't been turned. All the water just runs right off. Even a downpour storm will leave the soil completely dry an inch deep. And that's why I turn them - for water absorption. I just collected soil samples the other day. The old plots are soft and moist 6" down. The new plots I couldn't get 6" down, and then I had to break up the soil with a hammer to get it to a powder that could be tested.

The one difference in turning I'm going to use this year is only trying to turn the soil about 2" down instead of 6-8". That will spread the biomass from this summer down through a much thinner soil profile, hopefully to improve the top couple of inches more quickly. Wheat and crimson clover don't need deep soils to be productive.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Creekbed gravel - I feel for you! I'm with @megalomaniac on the tilling. I'm not a big Jeff Sturgis fan, but I believe his method would work for you….nothing but buckwheat in the spring/summer, then come fall - broadcast, then roll over and spray. You should get a lot of biomass that way…and quick

 

[BSK]

Creekbed gravel - I feel for you! I'm with @megalomaniac on the tilling. I'm not a big Jeff Sturgis fan, but I believe his method would work for you….nothing but buckwheat in the spring/summer, then come fall - broadcast, then roll over and spray. You should get a lot of biomass that way…and quick

Actually, ridge-top chert rock. But same general effect.

Tried Sturgis' process this year. Growth and germination were terrible. Had much better growth/germination after tilling. But I'll keep mowing what growth I do have, which is mostly grasses and weeds (which the deer are eating). Over the years, I little soil will build up. Going to try hammering plots with professionally spread lime and fertilizer this year, which should aid growth dramatically. I've been liming with bagged pelletized lime up to this point (difficult to get spreader truck to my new plots).

 

[Popcorn]

If I had a plot like that I might just sow millet and Sudan sorghum hit it with nitrogen and let er rip!
It's matter enmass then rye, turnips and clover in fall over and over…

 

[Jcalder]

Do you live close to a municipality that does leaf removal. Might could get them to dump on you if you're close, or even get some yourself.

 

[Apostolic Outdoors]

 

[Apostolic Outdoors]

 

[Apostolic Outdoors]

Grants Woods is the man when it comes to converting rocky land to productive food plots. He has perfected it on his properties!

The 2 videos above are a great place to start. It takes work, but it is possible.

 

[Patrick H]

BSK, I hunt in Perry County btwn Lobelville and Linden. Property was clear cut about 20 years ago. Soil is terrible. There is a lot or rock and chert. And like you over the years some soil builds up. But the worst areas similar to your picture we don't plant. The land is very hard on our tractor implements. And the only way to get a decent plot is to turn the soil over. And we usually start with clover and let that go several years, with annual lime and fertilizer. Most
Of our plots are about an acre or less on ridges.

 

[TNTreeman]

Massive amounts of wood chips or like said above - leaves. Preferably both.

 

[BSK]

If I had a plot like that I might just sow millet and Sudan sorghum hit it with nitrogen and let er rip!
It's matter enmass then rye, turnips and clover in fall over and over…

After my experiences with rye last year (destroyed by Army worms while the wheat went untouched), I'm done with rye. The sorghum I broadcast in throw-and-mow planting this spring is doing really well. It's going to add a lot of biomass to the soil when I turn it in. Turnips won't grow in that soil. They grow up out of the soil instead of "in" the soil. So far, what grows best (until I can get the plots in any kind of shape) is Buckwheat, wheat and Crimson Clover. That's what's going in this fall.

 

[NChunt1]

I have a plot that I had bulldozed out 2 years ago that's got about the same soil type. The ground is so hard paned that all the water just runs off it and last year the drill we were using could barely break the surface and got beat to death. I'm trying to decide now if I'm going to disk it or not. The ground is so hard I can't see any seed being able to germinate especially any type of top sowing clover. I could also could rototill it if I needed to. What do you guys think

 

[BSK]

I have a plot that I had bulldozed out 2 years ago that's got about the same soil type. The ground is so hard paned that all the water just runs off it and last year the drill we were using could barely break the surface and got beat to death. I'm trying to decide now if I'm going to disk it or not. The ground is so hard I can't see any seed being able to germinate especially any type of top sowing clover. I could also could rototill it if I needed to. What do you guys think

I destroyed a brand-new double-gang disk in 24 hours trying to disk plots like these. You can get some germination from seed just broadcast onto the ground, but it requires certain species and seed sizes. Basically, very small-seeded plants that can handle very poor soil conditions. Rye, wheat and crimson clover will all germinate and grow in bare soil situations like these, but they will not be able to handle any drought conditions. Even just a couple weeks of no rain can be disastrous. The first season or two, this might mean not trying to plant anything until the late fall rains start. Although, every few years we get lucky and have plenty of rain in September and October. A chain harrow with teeth down will rough-up hard-pan plots enough to increase germination rates (cover seed with just a little soil).

Currently, I'm tilling these plots with a heavy-duty tiller, but expect damage to a tiller over the long haul. Our first one - basically a garden-grade tiller - only lasted 3 seasons of tilling before it shook itself to pieces. The construction-grade one we have now is doing a much better job.

 

[BSK]

Creekbed gravel - I feel for you! I'm with @megalomaniac on the tilling. I'm not a big Jeff Sturgis fan, but I believe his method would work for you….nothing but buckwheat in the spring/summer, then come fall - broadcast, then roll over and spray. You should get a lot of biomass that way…and quick

Even buckwheat won't grow in the summer in these plots. It only gets a spindly 8-12" tall. Nothing to mow down onto the seed in fall. About the only thing that seems to grow well in these plots in summer is foxtail grass and ragweed (which I'm allowing to grow as long as possible because the deer are eating it). Also have a decent crop of horseweed and what looks like late boneset.

 

[BSK]

Grants Woods is the man when it comes to converting rocky land to productive food plots. He has perfected it on his properties!

I was there when he started work on those plots. They absolutely were terrible!

And so were my first plots when I started working on them. But 20 years later, they're pretty productive, but it took a lot of work and a lot of broken equipment.

The below picture is the plot I took the picture of my hand in. This was last year, the plot's second fall to be planted. Not great, but better than nothing. The real problem is summer plantings. I'm about to give up on summer plantings in these new plots until I can build some soil.

 

[buckaroo]

I destroyed a brand-new double-gang disk in 24 hours trying to disk plots like these. You can get some germination from seed just broadcast onto the ground, but it requires certain species and seed sizes. Basically, very small-seeded plants that can handle very poor soil conditions. Rye, wheat and crimson clover will all germinate and grow in bare soil situations like these, but they will not be able to handle any drought conditions. Even just a couple weeks of no rain can be disastrous. The first season or two, this might mean not trying to plant anything until the late fall rains start. Although, every few years we get lucky and have plenty of rain in September and October. A chain harrow with teeth down will rough-up hard-pan plots enough to increase germination rates (cover seed with just a little soil).

Currently, I'm tilling these plots with a heavy-duty tiller, but expect damage to a tiller over the long haul. Our first one - basically a garden-grade tiller - only lasted 3 seasons of tilling before it shook itself to pieces. The construction-grade one we have now is doing a much better job.

A subsoiler will bring a lot of rock up to the surface, its a bit of work but you can pick the rock out and it will help a lot

 

[Ski]

The biggest problem with no layer of topsoil is that greminatung/ growing conditions have to be almost PERFECT to have a chance at any significant production. Go 3 w without rain, and the plot is lost

That's exactly what I have to deal with. Getting good growth really is a coin toss as I'm at the mercy of nature. I've really considered having a dozer create a shallow reservoir where my plots are and hauling in truckloads of topsoil. Considering the time, money,and effort I waste year in year out on trying every other idea, I'd probably be money ahead going with the topsoil.